Welcome to League of Legends

Aids cuz League·Jul 15, 2015·5 votes·1,060 views

Where:

We don't know how to balance people or items.

We don't keep an eye on anything that isn't LCS.

We make everything cost RP.

We give people black loading screens so they get demoted and it's our fault.

We give out special game modes every so often instead of fixing the ones we have.

We can't even make an uninstaller work properly. (Hint: I'm stuck on it because it won't load.)

We don't have a limitation on who can Ranked.

We don't ever listen to our playerbase on the PBE and let things like Sated Devourer get through.

We will remove this post because it is fact, and it's talking bad about us and we will lose money.

19 Comments

DrKesslerJul 15, 20153 votes

Obviously it's going to get deleted, Riot doesn't like the truth

TurquoiseYoshiJul 15, 20153 votes

Do you realize that a game with 126 characters and limitless item and rune/mastery builds is extremely difficult to balance while still keeping different characters unique? Yes, Riot does ignore issues. But don't just yell at them. Give them ideas on what to nerf/buff/add/change. Ask them nicely what they are doing on different issues. But don't yell at them because you believe you are a better game designer than them.

{quoted}

We give people black loading screens so they get demoted and it's our fault.

This line requires more pronoun checking.

{quoted}

We make everything cost RP.

This just isn't true.

{quoted}

We don't have a limitation on who can Ranked.

I don't even understand what this means.

EleshakaiJul 15, 20152 votes

Incorrect - subjective, but in general, I'd argue that outside of a few missteps they do fine.
Incorrect - proven inaccurate, AP Trynd was slated for nerfs before it was ever played in LCS for example.
Incorrect - Runes/Runepages cannot be purchased for RP
Incorrect - While it is a longstanding bug, it is not directly Riot's fault, as it does not happen to everyone. Nor is it intentional.
Incorrect - They have a separate team creatintg separate game modes as events for fun. This does not take away from the core teams working on Summoner's Rift or Twisted Treeline. There's no need to fix ARAM since it's essentailyl imbalanced by intent.
Incorrect - Uninstallers not working are almost always a computer issue. Usually a registry fault.
Incorrect - You need to own 10 champs and be level 30. Not a strict limitation, but still a limitation.
Incorrect - Changes have been made based off of player feedback several times. The infamous Lee Sin changes are an example.
Incorrect - The post is inaccurate, and doesn't actually contribute anything... but since it is largely civil I doubt it will be removed UNLESS the comments become a disaster area.

Aids cuz LeagueJul 15, 20152 votes

You are overlooking everything that is broken.

Sated Devourer was allowed to hit live without receiving much needed nerfs. Being able to on-hit effect true damage, blade and crits, and then add runaans so now it not only doubles, but makes it a cone aoe. Also as for the missteps, it would be better if they nerfed the harshness of the missteps they make. Had they listened to how broken Sated was, it would've hit live with a much better balance to it.
Overall, they'd much rather care about LCS plays and the LCS higher ELO because that's what most people watch and care to watch, gives them views and money because people will want to play and do Ranked, thus granting a higher playerbase and gaining money.
Runes can only be bought with IP, Rune Page Bundle is RP Only, and Rune Pages costs IP and RP. Instead of just making them for IP Only, something we should have to earn not buy, an obvious cash grab since most of us want Rune Pages.
How is it not directly Riots fault? Everything works fine, I have an internet connection. They have the ability to fix it, make calls to ISPs, server fixes, they physically fixed a cut wire on the West Coast causing people to get demoted and lose connectivity during games, I guess to you that is also not directly riots fault for not noticing it, or managing it. They fixed it, but not this issue? This is directly Riots fault.
Although ARAM is intentionally imbalanced, and though they have seperate teams, maybe they should work together so that way when Im running through the jungle I don't clip on terrain. Again, Riots fault no matter how you look at it.
Uninstallers usually are buggy, this I can agree.
I'm not talking about having a certain number of champions. I am saying when someone buys x champ and goes straight to Ranked without bot/normals practice. Which means 20% of your damage may or may not be there considering he doesn't know what hes doing.
Lee Sin is still strong, but he isn't someone I am worried about, even with the nerfs, but allowing an item like Sated Devourer to hit live, thus making Vayne/Yi/Ashe/Kalista/Xin Zhao/Aatrox completely broken. 3 of those are adcs, not junglers, they shouldn't be able to even stand a chance in the jungle. Counter jungling helps but its still just prolonging the inevitable, Sated Devourer lets vayne proc her W 2 times as fast which means, she deals her true damage 2 times as fast, blade of the ruined king does 16% and then you stack Wits End for the MR against mid laners and you are doing around 100-230 magic damage on hit plus 16% current hp + all your crits and her true damage. Oh by the way, we got laser turret nerfs cause of the LCS, if you go back and read the patch notes. So now our turrets are even more useless than they already were.
This post is not inaccurate, out of all these points, only one is wrong.

EleshakaiJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You are overlooking everything that is broken.

Sated Devourer was allowed to hit live without receiving much needed nerfs. Being able to on-hit effect true damage, blade and crits, and then add runaans so now it not only doubles, but makes it a cone aoe. Also as for the missteps, it would be better if they nerfed the harshness of the missteps they make. Had they listened to how broken Sated was, it would've hit live with a much better balance to it.

Overall, they'd much rather care about LCS plays and the LCS higher ELO because that's what most people watch and care to watch, gives them views and money because people will want to play and do Ranked, thus granting a higher playerbase and gaining money.

Runes can only be bought with IP, Rune Page Bundle is RP Only, and Rune Pages costs IP and RP. Instead of just making them for IP Only, something we should have to earn not buy, an obvious cash grab since most of us want Rune Pages.

How is it not directly Riots fault? Everything works fine, I have an internet connection. They have the ability to fix it, make calls to ISPs, server fixes, they physically fixed a cut wire on the West Coast causing people to get demoted and lose connectivity during games, I guess to you that is also not directly riots fault for not noticing it, or managing it. They fixed it, but not this issue? This is directly Riots fault.

Although ARAM is intentionally imbalanced, and though they have seperate teams, maybe they should work together so that way when Im running through the jungle I don't clip on terrain. Again, Riots fault no matter how you look at it.

Uninstallers usually are buggy, this I can agree.

I'm not talking about having a certain number of champions. I am saying when someone buys x champ and goes straight to Ranked without bot/normals practice. Which means 20% of your damage may or may not be there considering he doesn't know what hes doing.

Lee Sin is still strong, but he isn't someone I am worried about, even with the nerfs, but allowing an item like Sated Devourer to hit live, thus making Vayne/Yi/Ashe/Kalista/Xin Zhao/Aatrox completely broken. 3 of those are adcs, not junglers, they shouldn't be able to even stand a chance in the jungle. Counter jungling helps but its still just prolonging the inevitable, Sated Devourer lets vayne proc her W 2 times as fast which means, she deals her true damage 2 times as fast, blade of the ruined king does 16% and then you stack Wits End for the MR against mid laners and you are doing around 100-230 magic damage on hit plus 16% current hp + all your crits and her true damage. Oh by the way, we got laser turret nerfs cause of the LCS, if you go back and read the patch notes. So now our turrets are even more useless than they already were.

This post is not inaccurate, out of all these points, only one is wrong.

The only post that could be seen as right is #1 which is so subjective it is impossible to call 'wrong'.

Going back through again:

They listen. They just don't always act on our feedback because WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. If Riot listened to every piece of feedback they received the game would be the most ridiculous mess in the history of gaming. Players don't know how to balance, we provide the information so that the devs can balance. But we shouldn't assume that because they don't act on EVERYTHING WE COMMENT ON, they're not listening. They just have a broader sense of things than us. Yes they make mistakes, but overall they do a pretty good job. Occasionally things get through, but when it happens they fix them over time. Sometimes they KNOW something's broken but don't have enough data yet to get an accurate representation of WHY it doesn't work in its current state so they want additional playtesting, and people will play the hell out of something op, but ignore something underpowered. Other times they've got changes coming, but they don't want to delay EVERYTHING just for the sake of a few minor changes.
Of course they care more about feedback from higher ELO players. Higher ELO players have a better understanding of the game and can provide more informed feedback. That doesn't mean they ignore lower elo feedback, they just have to take it with a grain of salt due to the lack of skill and knowledge evident in lower level players - myself included.
Runes are still IP only. So there is something that CANNOT be bought with RP thus proving your initial statement of 'everything costs IP' inaccurate. They've also released some IP only ward skins and a few other timed IP only items. So again, wrong. Regardless, it's wrong to say 'everything costs RP' because there are things you can't buy with RP and there are MANY things you can buy with IP.
Because Riot can't fix your computer. Your computer is interacting incorrectly causing you to get a black screen. If it was a connectivity issue you wouldn't be able to connect, you'd still get all the proper loading screens, they just wouldn't PROGRESS anywhere. It's an interaction between your computer and the game client. Not a connection issue. They can work to try to prevent it from happening, and they probably are, but that doesn't mean 'Riot is doing it to you' it means your computer has a bug they haven't had a chance to fix yet. Perhaps due to lack of data, perhaps not enough people are reporting it, perhaps its so rare they simply haven't tracked down the exact cause... but regardless, it's a hardware-software interaction issue and no company has EVER successfully fixed EVERY bug of that type in a game. Ever. Edit: That is, unless you're completely failing to describe the issue. If that's the case, this may not apply. But if you're referring to getting a black screen when it is supposed to go to loading ,that's a client interraction.
The teams shouldn't work together, because that slows EVERYONE down. Throwing more cooks in the kitchen doesn't make dinner get done faster once you have someone manning every stage of the cooking process. Nor does having additional programmers do anything to speed it up once you have the people you need owrking on the relevent code, it just means people step on each others' toes more often.
Uninstaller bugs are USUALLY system-side. Not bugs with the installer themselves, but rather bugs resulting from interactions with bad segments of the registry that the system can't account for.
But again, your opening statement was simply: no restriction to enter ranked. That isn't accurate. There is a restriction. Fact. Your statement is wrong.
But again, your statement was general. You stated "We don't ever listen to our playerbase on the PBE". This is factually wrong. They have listened to the PBE playerbase numerous times and made changes based off of their feedback. They didn't make the SPECIFIC change you wanted, which is a valid statement. But saying 'we don't ever' is making an inaccurate generalization. And thus... inaccurate.
I have proven EVERY STATEMENT YOU MADE except #1 to be FACTUALLY inaccurate. #1 is impossible to prove since it is subjective and there's no clear measure. But the rest are factually wrong.

Aids cuz LeagueJul 15, 20151 votes

Just to stop this going back and forth. This game is made by the players, of all skill levels, our input helps make the laws. We are what runs this game, our money is what sustains the game. What you aren't realizing is that Riot chooses who it takes care of. We still have yet to get East Coast servers, West Coast is still dominant in ping. Skill wise? Maybe not. But the ping does help, but you are ignoring my point I am trying to make: Buffs/Nerfs/Integrated Items, yeah Riot does listen, the problem? They don't ALWAYS listen, and that's where we get all this messed up stuff. And that is also where you aren't seeing my point. Look at the Azir nerfs, he doesn't need them, we tell them he doesn't need them. They go through with it anyway, its their choice in the long run, but it is ruining a champion that we don't want to see ruined.

Sated Devourer, it IS a broken item, that needed balancing and fixing, we told them that, they still went through with it and right now it is dominating everyone if played by the right champ/person, some skill is involved with the champ, but they usually just afk farm. Do you see what I mean now?

EleshakaiJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Just to stop this going back and forth. This game is made by the players, of all skill levels, our input helps make the laws. We are what runs this game, our money is what sustains the game. What you aren't realizing is that Riot chooses who it takes care of. We still have yet to get East Coast servers, West Coast is still dominant in ping. Skill wise? Maybe not. But the ping does help, but you are ignoring my point I am trying to make: Buffs/Nerfs/Integrated Items, yeah Riot does listen, the problem? They don't ALWAYS listen, and that's where we get all this messed up stuff. And that is also where you aren't seeing my point. Look at the Azir nerfs, he doesn't need them, we tell them he doesn't need them. They go through with it anyway, its their choice in the long run, but it is ruining a champion that we don't want to see ruined.

Sated Devourer, it IS a broken item, that needed balancing and fixing, we told them that, they still went through with it and right now it is dominating everyone if played by the right champ/person, some skill is involved with the champ, but they usually just afk farm. Do you see what I mean now?

Riot DOES always listen. Always. They listen to everything we say. They take the feedback we provide, that ALL of us provide, and evaluate it based off of our experience, our knowledge, and their statistical information and internal testing... and they use all of that to make informed changes. They don't always get it right, but you can damnwell bet their way works a LOT BETTER than if they just let us pick the changes based off of who yelled the loudest.

Azir DOES need nerfs. He is absurdly strong at the top levels of play. The people who know the game extremely well and can execute it extremely well are providing abusive levels of strength and utility with him. So he needs nerfs. Sure he requires a lot of execution to play well, so people at lower tiers aren't doing well with him which leads to a low win rate... but he is an amazingly strong champion right now when played well.

The reality is that player feedback is only one source of information Riot has. And it is the MOST BIASED FEEDBACK of all of the places they receive feedback. We provide our experiences, and those experiences are extremely valuable to Riot. But they can't just go 'well the players want it, lets do it'... that would lead to the most BROKEN GAME ever made, and it would drive Riot to bankruptcy so fast. They have to take what we say, what pros say, what analysts say, what the DATA says, as well as what their playtesters say and combine all of that feedback together and use that info to create an informed picture of matters.

I'm not arguing about Sated Devourer. Whether it is op is irrelevent to the topic at hand.

Edit: As for the East Coast servers... nobody who actually has any understanding of the way the internet works is arguing for East Coast servers. It's just a bunch of technologically ignorant saps who feel East Coast servers would be an improvement. The rest of the people are arguing for centralized servers and better infrastructure. Which is what Riot is working on, long term. A real solution, not a money-wasting bandaid that wouldn't actually fix the problem.

Aids cuz LeagueJul 16, 20151 votes

I can't tell you how hard I laughed at this. The Centralized server I am fine with. Other than that, nobody seems to be grasping the point, we didn't want the shit we got, we helped by providing that feedback, they gave it to us anyway. I'm not saying they don't always listen, I am saying they take our feedback with a grain of salt. A lot of people didn't want the Azir nerfs, he didn't need them, especially not on his E, the Katarina nerfs on her E weren't needed, they needed to nerf how she scaled with Ludens stacks. This so called listening doesn't "always" happen. This feedback was pointed out, even if it's wrong, which in my opinion after playing Kat and getting ludens echo, I personally think was the right way to go about it. Makes it seem like Riot didn't even test it to see if that WAS the problem, instead they nerfed her E's damage. If they listened to the whole playerbase they would've came to a consensus that those turret nerfs were also not needed in fact, the damage needed to be ramped up, and ramped up faster than what it did(Oh, btw it takes a Laser turret 8 seconds to kill 1 super minion in a game where only one inhib got destroyed, it only takes 2-3 seconds to be destroyed by a champion and a laser turret can be killed by minions faster than it can kill them, which I see as a problem if its just minions), instead they actually got nerfed because and quote: "Right now, League has evolved pretty heavily toward teamfight style compositions being the go-to strategy - especially in pro level play."- Patch 5.12 SR Turrets. Our turrets received nerfs making them no longer reduce damage done, and they no longer slow. The problem with this is that in lower elos or normals, people don't do what high elo or pro level players do. In fact, a lot of us don't even care about the LCS, I for one don't, because it's actually ruining the game for us. Tired of seeing ***hole trick2g players. People trying to pull off biglcsplays only to feed. Yes it's their stupidity for doing it, but they need to listen to everybody as a whole, find a compromise between players, not just one side.

EleshakaiJul 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I can't tell you how hard I laughed at this. The Centralized server I am fine with. Other than that, nobody seems to be grasping the point, we didn't want the shit we got, we helped by providing that feedback, they gave it to us anyway. I'm not saying they don't always listen, I am saying they take our feedback with a grain of salt. A lot of people didn't want the Azir nerfs, he didn't need them, especially not on his E, the Katarina nerfs on her E weren't needed, they needed to nerf how she scaled with Ludens stacks. This so called listening doesn't "always" happen. This feedback was pointed out, even if it's wrong, which in my opinion after playing Kat and getting ludens echo, I personally think was the right way to go about it. Makes it seem like Riot didn't even test it to see if that WAS the problem, instead they nerfed her E's damage. If they listened to the whole playerbase they would've came to a consensus that those turret nerfs were also not needed in fact, the damage needed to be ramped up, and ramped up faster than what it did(Oh, btw it takes a Laser turret 8 seconds to kill 1 super minion in a game where only one inhib got destroyed, it only takes 2-3 seconds to be destroyed by a champion and a laser turret can be killed by minions faster than it can kill them, which I see as a problem if its just minions), instead they actually got nerfed because and quote: "Right now, League has evolved pretty heavily toward teamfight style compositions being the go-to strategy - especially in pro level play."- Patch 5.12 SR Turrets. Our turrets received nerfs making them no longer reduce damage done, and they no longer slow. The problem with this is that in lower elos or normals, people don't do what high elo or pro level players do. In fact, a lot of us don't even care about the LCS, I for one don't, because it's actually ruining the game for us. Tired of seeing ***hole trick2g players. People trying to pull off biglcsplays only to feed. Yes it's their stupidity for doing it, but they need to listen to everybody as a whole, find a compromise between players, not just one side.

So what you're asking for is design by committee?

The last company that tried that went bankrupt and had to shut their game down almost immediately after release.

Players do not know how to design or balance a game. I don't, you don't, we don't. We will just make a freaking mess of it. We provide feedback, and it's their job to use that to design the game based off of THEIR VISION. But it's not their job to directly implement our ideas. That's just absurd.

Aids cuz LeagueJul 16, 20151 votes

Sigh, No that is not what i am saying, I am saying that they need to count us as a whole, not a one sided implement fest. I can almost gaurantee that if a few people in pro level play said they don't have enough bans, we would all get a fourth ban in Ranked and Normals - Draft mode, however over one thousand low elo or normal players could say the same thing, you know what would happen, Azir nerfs. They aren't looking at our feedback at all, and not everything needs to be implement, all we really want is some recognition for our feedback, but we aren't #biglcsplays so we don't matter, if we mattered, the lower elos in Ranked would've gotten some fixes. The Tribunal is gone, reporting literally does nothing other than giving people chat restrictions, it took them 2 months to ban a guy who intentionally fed in my promos. Do you know how many people probably lost their games/promos in that time frame to that same guy? You cannot sit there and say Riot is actively helping us all as a whole, they aren't. And I'm also not saying every intentional feeder will be caught, I am saying, they need to give us a way to stop this in low elos, but they haven't they took away the tribunal which could've helped, and they also stopped with the reform cards. All I see on the website now are Champ Releases, Skin Releases, Patch Notes and Most of the time LCS events, that is it.

EleshakaiJul 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Sigh, No that is not what i am saying, I am saying that they need to count us as a whole, not a one sided implement fest. I can almost gaurantee that if a few people in pro level play said they don't have enough bans, we would all get a fourth ban in Ranked and Normals - Draft mode, however over one thousand low elo or normal players could say the same thing, you know what would happen, Azir nerfs. They aren't looking at our feedback at all, and not everything needs to be implement, all we really want is some recognition for our feedback, but we aren't #biglcsplays so we don't matter, if we mattered, the lower elos in Ranked would've gotten some fixes. The Tribunal is gone, reporting literally does nothing other than giving people chat restrictions, it took them 2 months to ban a guy who intentionally fed in my promos. Do you know how many people probably lost their games/promos in that time frame to that same guy? You cannot sit there and say Riot is actively helping us all as a whole, they aren't. And I'm also not saying every intentional feeder will be caught, I am saying, they need to give us a way to stop this in low elos, but they haven't they took away the tribunal which could've helped, and they also stopped with the reform cards. All I see on the website now are Champ Releases, Skin Releases, Patch Notes and Most of the time LCS events, that is it.

Okay I can't do this anymore... nothing you say is factually correct. Literally nothing. They ARE looking at our feedback, they just don't necessarily AGREE with it. It's that simple. The problem with balancing for low ELOs is that you have to act very subtly. Make champions easier to play, or make their counters easier to perform - or make them harder to perform with. Making Ryze more complicated is a way to make him harder to faceroll with at lower ELOs.

The tribunal is temporarily gone, and reporting punished people faster than it used to. Every single ACTUAL piece of data points towards that. The only people who disagree are people who have no real data to back it up. They just FEEL it doesn't work based off one personal experience. They just implemented a new system that is catching intentional feeders WITHOUT them needing to be reported.

I don't necessarily agree with everything Riot does... but at least I make sure I understand the reality of the situation BEFORE I disagree with something. Inform yourself, stop acting off of gut feelings. Because right now you're just whining.

rockdalianJul 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Incorrect - subjective, but in general, I'd argue that outside of a few missteps they do fine.

Incorrect - proven inaccurate, AP Trynd was slated for nerfs before it was ever played in LCS for example.

Incorrect - Runes/Runepages cannot be purchased for RP

Incorrect - While it is a longstanding bug, it is not directly Riot's fault, as it does not happen to everyone. Nor is it intentional.

Incorrect - They have a separate team creatintg separate game modes as events for fun. This does not take away from the core teams working on Summoner's Rift or Twisted Treeline. There's no need to fix ARAM since it's essentailyl imbalanced by intent.

Incorrect - Uninstallers not working are almost always a computer issue. Usually a registry fault.

Incorrect - You need to own 10 champs and be level 30. Not a strict limitation, but still a limitation.

Incorrect - Changes have been made based off of player feedback several times. The infamous Lee Sin changes are an example.

Incorrect - The post is inaccurate, and doesn't actually contribute anything... but since it is largely civil I doubt it will be removed UNLESS the comments become a disaster area.

you're incorrect runes are, ip pages are both sir

EleshakaiJul 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

you're incorrect runes are, ip pages are both sir

Ya, you're right. I corrected that in a later post but was still incorrect about that one minor point there. I don't know why anyone WOULD buy runepages for RP but they certainly can. :)

rockdalianJul 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ya, you're right. I corrected that in a later post but was still incorrect about that one minor point there. I don't know why anyone WOULD buy runepages for RP but they certainly can. :)

Only reason to is when 7 page bundle on sale really I look at as the point money can buy an advantage at least for casual players like myself

EleshakaiJul 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Only reason to is when 7 page bundle on sale really I look at as the point money can buy an advantage at least for casual players like myself

I don't consider it an advantage honestly. Having runes is an advantage, but having more runepages isn't a real advantage.

RawJul 16, 20151 votes

I was about to upvote but than I saw this..... "We don't have a limitation on who can Ranked." Must be level 30 and own 16 champs, I'm pretty you knew that but decided to be a jackass and post it anyway.

Sincerely,

http://www.auplod.com/u/lpodua564a6.png

Aids cuz LeagueJul 16, 20151 votes

Im not talking about the champion limit, im talking about experience with them aka, first time kog'maws, or first time Karmas, goin straight to Ranked.

rockdalianJul 16, 20151 votes

It is I have 5 pages and it's not even close to what I want/need for the 10+ champs I play if I want to play certain champs I gotta set the night up for it and I screw up one of my pages and get stuck in the role I changed just because of bad luck I figure I need 10 more pages to be comfy with my choices there's 2+ different pages I like to use for each role

EleshakaiJul 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It is I have 5 pages and it's not even close to what I want/need for the 10+ champs I play if I want to play certain champs I gotta set the night up for it and I screw up one of my pages and get stuck in the role I changed just because of bad luck I figure I need 10 more pages to be comfy with my choices there's 2+ different pages I like to use for each role

It's a convenience, not an advantage. 100%.