Riot expects me to pay 150€ for a chroma.

ßlameMyADC·May 21, 2019·14 votes·5,987 views

I've purchased the MSI Trials Pass when it came out, been playing like a normal human being to earn MSI Tokens. Downed approx 250 into champion shards and am sitting on roughly 660 MSI Tokens rn.

Lux's Prestige Edition costs 2000 MSI Tokens. I've got roughly 2 weeks left to waste my lifetime getting 1400 MSI Tokens through my Pass.

Let's say I can earn another 600 MSI Tokens in that time, I would still have to down 100€ into buying 800 MSI Tokens through the bundles.

Riot designed this to be only achieveable by those who have no life or are willing to pay 100€ for a single chroma.

I know you need money, you are a company, but this is just disgusting. I wanna be rewarded for playing a game. Either with virtual goodies or with having fun. This is rewarding for those who do nothing else but play and I get that the prestige editions are for players that are comitted to the game.

But I've been playing this game since S2, does that not count as commitment?

Adjust the price please.

35 Comments

Gear5LuffyMay 21, 20196 votes

You don’t have to buy anything

SEKAIMay 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You don’t have to buy anything

Next time you get ripped off by any merchant that isn't selling the bare essential items like food, don't complain.

You shouldn't complain when oil price only ever goes up, when the school fee is astronomical, when the internet costs so much you can't afford, when rent and housing prices never come down and 0 actions taken by the government, when buying a present for your loved one to celebrate something important and get ripped by the cynical shopowner, or when a pair of new shoes to replace your broken 10 year old pair is still going to cost you hundreds of bucks, or buying ANYTHING that catches your fancy for ANY reason.

After all, you don't have to buy anything. Nothing is crucial to your existence outside of food and water, thus no matter how ripped off you are you shouldn't complain and just pay the fuck up.

Oh and, you don't get to shop around. From now on you can only shop in 1 shop/brand, get the dress all from the same store, for example. So if you get ripped off and want to go elsewhere to find a fairer price? Too fucking bad. It's not like you care anyway as after all, you don't have to buy anything, and you're just so happy to pay for ANY PRICE when asked by your favourite and only shop you visit, no matter what it is whether it is 1 dollar or 1000 dollar for a cup of morning coffee.

KalienorMay 21, 20192 votes

Context.

He's talking about the game. It's free-to-play, spending money on the game is optional.

Think luxury goods, not basic products.

Chembaron YamadaMay 21, 20192 votes

when the school fee is astronomical, when the internet costs so much you can't afford, when rent and housing prices never come down and 0 actions taken by the government

There is a clear difference between basic needs and luxury.

Not owning a single prestigious skin for a champion in a video game is definitely not causing any harm for you. It is luxury. You can't complain every single time something gets sold you can't afford, otherwise I would really wish to know why the government hasn't intervented to this point that I am not able to purchase a lamborghini.

SEKAIMay 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=aEpkGNn5,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2019-05-21T18:49:08.789+0000)

There is a clear difference between basic needs and luxury.

Not owning a single prestigious skin for a champion in a video game is definitely not causing any harm for you. It is luxury. You can't complain every single time something gets sold you can't afford, otherwise I would really wish to know why the government hasn't intervented to this point that I am not able to purchase a lamborghini.

You can live as long as you have food and water.

Quite literally everything else is luxury.

Just because certain luxuries have been normalised, it doesn't change the fact they're luxuries like video game skins. You do NOT need a car, a pair of shoes, or a degree, in order to just survive biologically. It doesn't matter how much you're in denial about it, it won't change a single thing about that fact.

Even if we completely discount all about that, it still ALSO doesn't change the fact ripping off other people is bad. Thus "you don't have to buy anything" is completely counterproductive not to mention just completely false because it shifts the blame on the customer wanting a god damn product and NOT the shady ass merchant ripping off someone who just wants to buy something fair and square.

Everything about that shitty ass line is wrong. But ofc, no one give a shit about it. It's all about who's the edgy tough guy.

Chembaron YamadaMay 22, 20191 votes

You can live as long as you have food and water.

Quite literally everything else is luxury.

If this is your point of view, ok then. You are completely neglecting human rights with this statement, in my opinion. You biologically don't need freedom to live, so it's luxury? You biologically don't need education either, yet the right to education is considered a human right.

It's not as easy as saying "literally everything that isn't food and water is luxury". There is more to it. Something can be a basic need for humans, even if it isn't needed to keep their body working biologically.

I would include stuff like having a home as a basic need of a human, not luxury. So there goes the stuff with rent and housing prices. Basic education is a human right, I consider this a basic need, there goes the school fee stuff.

But no matter how I look at it, owning one single specific skin for a champion in a video game can in no way be seen as a basic need, it is clearly luxury.

SEKAIMay 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=aEpkGNn5,comment-id=00050000000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-22T11:00:14.418+0000)

If this is your point of view, ok then. You are completely neglecting human rights with this statement, in my opinion. You biologically don't need freedom to live, so it's luxury? You biologically don't need education either, yet the right to education is considered a human right.

It's not as easy as saying "literally everything that isn't food and water is luxury". There is more to it. Something can be a basic need for humans, even if it isn't needed to keep their body working biologically.

I would include stuff like having a home as a basic need of a human, not luxury. So there goes the stuff with rent and housing prices. Basic education is a human right, I consider this a basic need, there goes the school fee stuff.

But no matter how I look at it, owning one single specific skin for a champion in a video game can in no way be seen as a basic need, it is clearly luxury.

Anything above what's essential in directly supporting a person's survival is all luxury because you don't need it to carry on living. You Need (capital N) a video game skin as much as you Need a car; which as to say, you don't given neither directly sustains your ability to live, but we may feel entitled in that we feel people 'deserve' to get cars. But as I've said, just because we've grown to feel entitled about certain luxuries (or on the flip side, certain luxuries have become normalised enough to be mistaken for need), it doesn't make them not so.

This isn't to say people should never have such thing or that they have to literally fight for a piece of these luxuries (which people are anyway, because no matter how nice the human rights declaration wants to pretend itself as, it doesn't change the fact society largely uses a far more hardline approach than my worldview ever was where it demands even things like food and water to be uttermost luxuries people have to fight tooth and nails for). However, what's important is that the luxury of having accesses to education, nice cloths, houses, etc, much like going to the movies or having a video game skin, is NOT to be taken completely for granted without any appreciation.

.........

But whatever the case, my argument has 2 part. The second part is about the simple fact that "you don't have to get it" completely ignores the part where the vendor is conducting unethical business of ripping off the customer, which is this whole thing is about, in the first place.

"You don't have to buy anything" is a type of argument that fundamentally shifts the blame of unethical business conduct/interaction onto the victim of the rip off, and not the businessman doing the rip off and otherwise harming the customers to begin with.

Gear5LuffyMay 21, 20194 votes

compare gas/shoes with a skin chroma cuz u have a issue with collecting everything [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

SEKAIMay 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

compare gas/shoes with a skin chroma cuz u have a issue with collecting everything [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

You don't need those for your literal physical survival. Therefore they aren't essential and no different to a dress, a fancy meal, or an in-game skin.

Thus by your very own logic, if you complain about the price of quite literally anything other than food and water no matter how hard you're being ripped off, you're being a whiny ass and should just shut up because in your own words, "You don’t have to buy anything".

Even if we ignore all of that, you still have yet to illustrate why in a case of an unethical business conduct of someone ripping the customer off, it is the fault of the customer simply wanting to fairly get a product that they like and not the shady businessman who is clearly doing harm against others?

That said, it's not like expect you (and many others) to have any remotely and internally consistent narrative even when you're using it to supposedly tell others off. It's all about whatever is convenient enough to act as an excuse for you to jack off over other people and feel good and all smarmy about yourself.

Gear5LuffyMay 22, 20191 votes

if you generalize it like that then you want to control the prize of anything you deem is overpriced that is now how the market works you can ask for a lower prize if there is something similar in the market with a lower prize and if there isn't well you can go and make it yourself [katarina-love] [vlad-salute]

Sewer SideMay 22, 20191 votes

You can just buy the “non-chroma” Lux if you want a participation trophy so badly

SillaeMay 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Next time you get ripped off by any merchant that isn't selling the bare essential items like food, don't complain.

You shouldn't complain when oil price only ever goes up, when the school fee is astronomical, when the internet costs so much you can't afford, when rent and housing prices never come down and 0 actions taken by the government, when buying a present for your loved one to celebrate something important and get ripped by the cynical shopowner, or when a pair of new shoes to replace your broken 10 year old pair is still going to cost you hundreds of bucks, or buying ANYTHING that catches your fancy for ANY reason.

After all, you don't have to buy anything. Nothing is crucial to your existence outside of food and water, thus no matter how ripped off you are you shouldn't complain and just pay the fuck up.

Oh and, you don't get to shop around. From now on you can only shop in 1 shop/brand, get the dress all from the same store, for example. So if you get ripped off and want to go elsewhere to find a fairer price? Too fucking bad. It's not like you care anyway as after all, you don't have to buy anything, and you're just so happy to pay for ANY PRICE when asked by your favourite and only shop you visit, no matter what it is whether it is 1 dollar or 1000 dollar for a cup of morning coffee.

dude skins are cosmetic and prestige skins are literally just a "look its shinier" version of another skin that has the same effects. It is in no way similar to being denied an education or being unable to buy shoes.

Ahri BakaMay 21, 20194 votes

You saw nothing Play other games and give me your answer holy $#@@# What Riot is doing for those Prestiege is a blessing

ßlameMyADCMay 21, 20195 votes

I get your point, but it's heavily flawed.

Just because Riot doesn't go full EA mode and chops the game in half then sells it full price, it doesn't mean this is good.

I like the game and I like the champ and I like the skin and I've shown commitment to this game for several years. How come I can't earn myself this skin without wasting my life or dumping half of what other people consider their monthly pay into this.

It's not a good experience in my opinion.

Chembaron YamadaMay 21, 20194 votes

I said it several times and I will say it again: Yes, getting these skins requires either extreme commitment to the game or the will to spend tons of money on it.

That's the entire point of these prestige skins. They are not meant to be for everyone. If you don't see yourself able to get this skin the way they are achieved right now, then you simply are not the target audience for them.

I know, it sucks if a champion you are a big fan of gets one of these skins, making you unable to get all the stuff this champion has to offer. Pretty sure they will give us a prestige skin for Jinx one day and it will feel bad for me, too. I have every skin for her and want to keep this up. But if she really gets such a skin, then I have to accept that I am simply not in the situation to get it.

That's just how it is.

ßlameMyADCMay 21, 20191 votes

I understand that there is people out there who show their commitment by month long grinds to get these skins and I respect that.

But Riot is neglecting idk if it is fair to say but "normal" people.

Someone mentioned that he has 2 jobs and college and sits on 1.6k Prestige points. Which I respect, he is showing commitment. But.. I spend 8 hours a day sleeping, roughly 3 hours max a day playing games and the other time either working, learning or both.

I've been playing this game for a long time, thus showed commitment in a different way and was hoping that I too can earn this skin, but perhaps would have to get the Trials pass to, you know, close the gap between those that just hard grind and those that also do other things in their freetime. And it's just heavily disappointing that this isn't the case :(

EleshakaiMay 21, 20193 votes

Technically Riot doesn't EXPECT you to do it. Riot is offering you the choice to do it if you're not willing to play enough to get it through the pass.

SEKAIMay 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Technically Riot doesn't EXPECT you to do it. Riot is offering you the choice to do it if you're not willing to play enough to get it through the pass.

That's being apologetic at its finest.

It's like I organise this event that allows you to earn points for a given reward, such as a nice dress, and then I provide the option for you to skip the event and get the dress for $1000 ($100 is ridiculous for a in-game virtual skin, just as $1000 would be ridiculous for an irl dress).

Do I get to say that I "don't expect you to do it, but I'm just offering you the choice to do it if you're not willing to go through the actual event".

Ofc not. Because there is a CLEAR incentive for me to make the said event as humanly impossible as possible so that it pushes more people to the money option.

Hell, it would also be as if the arcade crane machines now have options to pay a ludicrous price, far more than the actual amount you need to pay to get a doll off it, to purchase the doll directly. Do you seriously think the company is doing charity and is in no way simply creating a new outlet to abuse it as much as they possibly can, more so than the original it was built on? Assuming getting a doll is of a relatively fixed amount of cost via the normal way, and the "prestige" direct purchase is easily 10x that; do you seriously think the company would take absolutely 0 action in skewing the machines so that people are pushed into using the direct purchase option?

If Riot only wanted to provide an alternative option, it wouldn't be fucking $100 god damn dollars for a not only just a virtual skin, but A CHROMA. Ofc they're using it as a cash cow, and the play-to-earn is clearly the disguise at front and WHAT RIOT DOESN'T EXPECT YOU TO DO.

EleshakaiMay 21, 20193 votes

No it's not being apologetic, it's being pedantic. Much like this statement.

If you make a product, you're allowed to charge whatever you want for it. Legally speaking, that is EXACTLY how it works. And then it is up to the consumer to decide whether they wish to spend that much money on it. That's how economics works. I make something, I then decide on a price and try to sell it. If people feel the product is worth that price, they buy it. If not, I either have to adjust the product, the price, or stop trying. If I wish, I am also allowed to offer alternative means to acquire it, as long as those alternative means do not break any laws.

This case is actually relatively simple: Riot received feedback that people wanted something exclusive, something people could use as a status symbol. In order for it to work as that, it needs to BE difficult to obtain. Either by playing a TON or by spending a lot of money. So they made that. If you're not the type of person who wants to spend 100 dollars on a cosmetic, then this cosmetic is NOT FOR YOU. Much like it is not for me. I will likely never have a prestige skin, unless I get one in a box. And i'm okay with that.

SEKAIMay 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

No it's not being apologetic, it's being pedantic. Much like this statement.

If you make a product, you're allowed to charge whatever you want for it. Legally speaking, that is EXACTLY how it works. And then it is up to the consumer to decide whether they wish to spend that much money on it. That's how economics works. I make something, I then decide on a price and try to sell it. If people feel the product is worth that price, they buy it. If not, I either have to adjust the product, the price, or stop trying. If I wish, I am also allowed to offer alternative means to acquire it, as long as those alternative means do not break any laws.

This case is actually relatively simple: Riot received feedback that people wanted something exclusive, something people could use as a status symbol. In order for it to work as that, it needs to BE difficult to obtain. Either by playing a TON or by spending a lot of money. So they made that. If you're not the type of person who wants to spend 100 dollars on a cosmetic, then this cosmetic is NOT FOR YOU. Much like it is not for me. I will likely never have a prestige skin, unless I get one in a box. And i'm okay with that.

There is no second store that compete with Riot's in-game shop. You can't get say, a skin from another shop next door or something. There is no economics at play here whatsoever as Riot's in-game store run on total monopoly. The skins are ONLY worth/useable on Riot's game, and ONLY avilable for purchase on Riot's store fronts.

Riot can change the price all they want, sure, but it still doesn't change the fact the Prestige nonsense are absolute rip off.

And no, if something has to be difficult to obtain, it can very easily be tied to in-game performance, achievement, or anything like that. Or fuck, anything would certainly be better than what it is put as atm. It clearly doesn't have to be fucking 100 bucks for what is in reality, a yellow Chroma that is of even worse quality than any average modern day chroma that costs several times less. Riot chose that specifically to exploit and make money off gullible and desperate people, that's all there is to it and no amount of pretentious excuses is going to change that (I still can't believe you just threw "the intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment" at me. I'm sure that fared extremely well when EA said that while trying to justify their exploitative monetary scheme last time).

As I've said, a crane machine that allows you to pay something like $500 or some crazy cash to get a doll while bypassing the gameplay isn't doing a fucking charity, especially when they have all the incentives in the world to rig it as close to the $500 option as much as possible and ESPECIALLY if they also happen to be the ONLY crane machine company in the entire world. There is nothing charitable about any of it, it's just a business trying to rip off as many people as possible while abusing its status of having no competitors. It's identical to what Riot is doing. Once again, this problem is as bad as it is largely because like just about most other digital storefronts, it runs on MONOPOLY.

What Riot is doing atm with the Prestige chroma and stuff is precisely why the law forbids market monopoly in the real world (excluding say, situational and limited monopoly like patent). It's just a shame that digital storefronts often run into monopoly related issues at a fundamental level and laws don't know how to actually deal with it.

EleshakaiMay 21, 20193 votes

Yes. They are absolute ripoffs. So don't buy them. That's what you do when a store charges too much for something.

i never said it was charitable. Bear in mind that there's no RNG to this. You play games and get a static number of tokens per game, you can then save up to get it. Or you can use real money to avoid that grind. Those are your two realistic choices.

It doesn't make it unethical though. Nor does it make it illegal.

No, this isn't a monopoly. Claiming this is a monopoly because they're the only people who sell League of Legends skins is like calling McDonald's a monopoly because they're the only people who sell the Big Mac. There are other skins out there - DotA2 has skins, Overwatch has Skins, Starcraft 2 has skins, etc. They just aren't LoL skins, so they won't work with your LoL character.

ßlameMyADCMay 21, 20191 votes

The comparison is wrong though. League of Legends has the monopoly of League of Legends Skins, I want this one specific skin, I'd even purchase it, if it didn't mean cashing in 100€.

McDonalds is selling a "burger" on a market, that is.. well the real world. League of Legends is selling something, only they really own. A Skin for a League of Legends Character that is bonded to their game. The Market here is the Game itself. McDonalds does not provide such Market, it is simply a competitor.

And in case you wanna go ahead and say "well there are other MOBAs, I mentioned them". Yes there are other MOBAs, the competition with those however is the game itself, not the skins.

Additionally there is no second store, selling Skins for the champion you and I want.

If I own an Iphone and only one company would be allowed to sell cases for an Iphone, then that person would have the monopoly on Iphone Cases. Let's imagine a world where it is clear that I personally believe that an Iphone is the superior piece of hardware, you wouldn't throw away your phone, buy a product that is worse just for a new phone case, would you?

EleshakaiMay 21, 20194 votes

This is not how monopolies work.

If it was, then EVERY single video game that is selling dlc would be violating anti-trust laws. Which is not the case.

And I'm not going to educate you any further on this, I don't have time to give you a course in economic law. Especially since you're clearly not receptive to learning.

Chembaron YamadaMay 21, 20192 votes

Your comparison doesn't work either, tho.

It's not like you can't get any skin for the champion you want. You just can't get this special one, because you are not in the situation to afford it.

And there is nothing wrong with that. There are prestigious phone cases out there, with diamonds and other expensive stuff on them with a specific target audience (damn rich iPhone users). I can't complain that they made these phone cases too expensive for me to purchase and that the company is neglecting me as a normal guy.

I can buy another, cheaper phone case. You can get another, cheaper skin. You don't have to get the prestige skin, it has no negative effect on you.

SEKAIMay 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yes. They are absolute ripoffs. So don't buy them. That's what you do when a store charges too much for something.

i never said it was charitable. Bear in mind that there's no RNG to this. You play games and get a static number of tokens per game, you can then save up to get it. Or you can use real money to avoid that grind. Those are your two realistic choices.

It doesn't make it unethical though. Nor does it make it illegal.

No, this isn't a monopoly. Claiming this is a monopoly because they're the only people who sell League of Legends skins is like calling McDonald's a monopoly because they're the only people who sell the Big Mac. There are other skins out there - DotA2 has skins, Overwatch has Skins, Starcraft 2 has skins, etc. They just aren't LoL skins, so they won't work with your LoL character.

Since you're so much into oversimplification, below is a step-by-step break down that shows precisely why you're wrong in that claim that Riot isn't operating a monopoly, and more.

.........

It is a monopoly. Because Riot is the only vendor that sell skins for League, which that also ONLY works in League of Legends.

You can NOT use the skin for anything else, and there is NO competitor competing with Riot when it comes to the skin's prices given Riot is the only sole distributor of the skins for League (nor can you just port skins from other games into League because that's just not how it works). Riot has total control over the product in every aspect of it and with no entity that can challenge their decision regarding their products, it certainly qualifies as a monopoly.

This problem of exclusive digital stores playing monopoly is neither new nor is it unheard of. Riot is just 1 in a long line of others engaging in this practice because they can get away with it, for now.

Let's make it clear: I'm not referring to all digital storefronts, but specifically, one similar to Riot where their product is highly IP driven and thus protected by the IP law while at the same time they use the said product to operate a highly enclosed storefront offering goods with extremely limited use which are also protected by the IP laws.

And that is the problem: Because such environment simply does not allow conventional competition whatsoever.

There is a reason why digital pricing in this kind of platform-specific set up has always been an issue, and ripe for unchecked customer exploitation. It is precisely because of the fact such exclusive digital storefronts' goods are not universal but platform specific, leading every vendor of the whatever platform operating their own little monopoly bubbles of their own.

And as such, exclusive digital storefronts effectively enables and gives the incentives for the vendors to be as ruthless as possible. After all, a digital vendor often offers various unique services on their platform especially when it comes to video game companies, and this means that customers can't just walk away as easily as irl at the face of being scammed and scummed by exploitative business schemes since they still want to stay and use the services that they actually like that can NOT be easily replaced due to the aforementioned affinity in IP and its protection. Within this kind of environment, every game dev and their mother has the full incentive to do scummy moves and expect to get away with it; and they do.

I am not sure Riot has broken any laws per se, but I'm sure as hell when a vendor massively inflates the price of a product with the sole intention of ripping off the potential customer (a notion that you completely agrees that Riot is doing as per your very first line "Yes. They are absolute ripoffs.") WHILE OPERATING A MONOPOLY, is by its essence unethical. So that's half of your punchline completely gone, destroyed by your very own words almost. Unless you don't believe the notion of ripping others off (with or without monopoly) to be a breach of any moral or professional ethics, then I can only inform you that you're just flat out wrong.

It doesn't take any degree nor 200 IQ to figure this out, and pretending it's all life as usual in firm denial doesn't make the obvious issues any less severe.

FullmuteAll playMay 22, 20191 votes

well no, legally speaking you cannot charge more than price ceiling for this type of product.

OleandervineMay 21, 20192 votes

There was plenty of time to get enough tokens for the prestige skin if you played consistently from the start. Just hitting your First Win rewards with like 1 or 2 other games a day can get you pretty close when you combine the mission rewards too. You still have to grind a little on like a couple of days, but it's more than feasible.

What I'm personally pissed about is the so called "low grind" prestige point missions that net you 25 prestige points. There's nothing remotely "low grind" about them. You have to net a shit ton of games to complete each of those missions.

CatffeineMay 21, 20192 votes

I go to college and work two jobs, and I'm still sitting on 1600 tokens.

They're also not meant for just anyone to have: They're Prestige edition skins to reward the most dedicated players for their dedication. Not something for just your everyday Iron 3 casual to have in their inventory.

IainG10May 21, 20192 votes

Just do what I do; buy the Pass, completely ignore Prestige as a system, convert the points into more than the Pass's value in skins from the Orbs.

Edit: Especially if you already have the Ultimate skin for Lux...

MyrmironMay 21, 20191 votes

It's so players can feel a sense of pride and accomplishment when they unlock it

SeiferothMay 21, 20191 votes

It's unfortunate that you purchase a pass that's impossible to earn everything in it during the event's grind.

UpDownLeftRightABMay 21, 20191 votes

Honestly, don't spend money, you'll probably get it in a box eventually if you have a good list of champions you can S rank on. The pass is so you can pay to feel a sense of pride and accomplishment as Myrmiron said.

Linna ExcelMay 21, 20191 votes

The whale milking is real and $30 ultimate skins that require a lot of work just weren't profitable enough for riot. It's kinda sad that they are coming to this but with lost revenues, they are making a desperate attempt to pick up their finances.

That said caveat emptor; you should have been aware of what you were getting into before buying that pass thingy.

XJ99999999999999May 22, 20191 votes

its prestige for a reason, and they dont want to F players who already bought the skins when they actually had to be bought for 100 dollars

i got 2200 tokens easily casually playing the game.

Chariut RequiemMay 22, 20191 votes

I dont get why people want prestige skins so much. 2000tokens is 10 orbs. Orbs are so much more worth than 1 skin (who is litterally just a gold chroma)