http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/110/333/Chaos-Warning-maximum-rage-inpending.jpg
For me the Answer is pretty simple, it's assassins people by nature HATE assassins even assassin's hate assassins
I mean when don't you see a thread complaining about
ect
Edit: And FYI Riven is not an Assassin, she is a Light Fighter.
Malicious Metal10 votesWhere's the option of ADC?
RaptorKarr1 votesGAH I knew I forgot something >.>
Malicious Metal13 votesWe all make mistakes. Just ask CertainlyT
Chaotic Reks1 votesthe fuck is that from
Enloct1 votesIt's from the opening cinematic to Dawn of War II.
Chaotic Reks1 voteswatches http://i.imgur.com/ySpU8OB.png
Pierce The Veal3 votes[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=51I337Aa,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-05-26T17:19:55.850+0000)
We all make mistakes. Just ask CertainlyT
I like all of CertainlyT's designs. I'd rather have all of the champions be made by CertainlyT rather than none of them.
Old Man Teeto2 votesGreat Designer, all of his champions are super fun and he has done pretty much every archetype, utterly impossible for the balance department to figure out how to put the numbers though.
I'd argue his best is new Caitlyn, feels much better than her old self.
charcharmunro2 votesHe's a very... Unique designer, but he designs things without regard for what he's putting them into.
manbearswine1 votes[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=51I337Aa,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-05-26T17:19:55.850+0000)
We all make mistakes. Just ask CertainlyT
It's not a mistake if you do it on purpose.
I mean I can believe zed was a mistake, but yasuo and kalista? There's no way they were an accident.
roflcopterssssss6 votescorrection, MOBILE assassins, I don't mind getting assassinated but I do mind it if they just poof back to safety and thus basically get a free kill.
shaco kills me? at least he had to use his only escape and now has to either juke with his ult or die zed kills me? he presses R and is 2 screens away, same for leblanc
TwinkiePro2 votesShaco is arguably the most balanced assassin, always having his highs and lows throughout the game. A single mobility tool that is used primarily for juking. If it weren't for the crit on it, he would suffer immensely. He also cannot build tank and kill as effectively as our other tank assassins, as his base damages can only hold for so long with literally 2 abilities focused on damage. Compare that to all other assassins with all 4 of their abilities built to primarily do damage. Yeah, the boxes do damage, but they are meant for CC, and the ult for dodging and juking, but neither primarily meant for damage.
OurLestrade4 votesAssassins. Nothing speaks "interaction" more than being instabursted at the start of every fight and watching the game more than playing it :P
Pierce The Veal1 votesAssassins. Nothing speaks "interaction" more than being instabursted at the start of every fight and watching the game more than playing it :P
I mean I sort of hate being chain cc'ed for 5+ seconds but if you really think assassins are worse than that then I have nothing to say.
manbearswine1 votesI mean I sort of hate being chain cc'ed for 5+ seconds but if you really think assassins are worse than that then I have nothing to say.
You can't pin being chain cced on a single guy though, except maybe morgana.
Pierce The Veal1 votesYou can't pin being chain cced on a single guy though, except maybe morgana.
Any champion that has more than 3 seconds total of cc in its kit is utter cancer. That and champions who have spammable cc.
CC being a required part of every kit is ridiculous. Basically every champion has SOME cc tacked on somewhere, aside from some old champions (cough Morde, Yi).
As big of a problem mobility creep is, I believe CC creep is an even bigger problem. And every assassin gets rekt extremely hard by cc, so they have to be balanced around it always being there, so when you don't have cc they become ridiculous.
Really, cc should be less of a thing.
manbearswine1 votesAny champion that has more than 3 seconds total of cc in its kit is utter cancer.
I wouldn't even say morgana is cancer, and she also has black shield shield to annoy you with alongside the massive hitbox of her q.
That and champions who have spammable cc.
I really think you are part of a small minority with this approach.
CC being a required part of every kit is ridiculous. Basically every champion has SOME cc tacked on somewhere, aside from some old champions (cough Morde, Yi).
I don't know about that, having a slow is different from having a snare which is different from having a stun, and morde riot can't seem to make relevant whereas the moment yi get's to a point where he is strong everyone starts crying, if anything these champions somewhat explain why almost everyone has cc.
As big of a problem mobility creep is, I believe CC creep is an even bigger problem.
"something Creep" generally refer to that something being more and more prevalent among new releases, that can be said about mobility, I don't think it can be said about cc.
And every assassin gets rekt extremely hard by cc,
That's 100% pure bs, assassins for the most part don't give a crap about slows, then the majority of them don't give a fuck about skillshot based cc (cause immense mobility), and a good portion doesn't give a crap about telegraphed cc, then you have things like le broken who don't give a shit about anything when played properly.
Assassins only REALLY care for pointclick instant cc (like say annie's ult/ ryze's snare/etc) these abilities are very rare, and only a few champions have them.
so they have to be balanced around it always being there, so when you don't have cc they become ridiculous. Really, cc should be less of a thing.
You're confusing general cc with the actual cc they care for, yi for example(if he isn't bronze trash or something) will just react to any skillshot based/telegraphed cc with his q, while being immune to slows, annie's ult screws him over, fizz is the same, yasuo is the same, le broken drops her abilities so fast even annie will struggle against her, and so on.
Pierce The Veal1 votesI wouldn't even say morgana is cancer, and she also has black shield shield to annoy you with alongside the massive hitbox of her q.
I really think you are part of a small minority with this approach.
I don't know about that, having a slow is different from having a snare which is different from having a stun, and morde riot can't seem to make relevant whereas the moment yi get's to a point where he is strong everyone starts crying, if anything these champions somewhat explain why almost everyone has cc.
"something Creep" generally refer to that something being more and more prevalent among new releases, that can be said about mobility, I don't think it can be said about cc.
That's 100% pure bs, assassins for the most part don't give a crap about slows, then the majority of them don't give a fuck about skillshot based cc (cause immense mobility), and a good portion doesn't give a crap about telegraphed cc, then you have things like le broken who don't give a shit about anything when played properly.
Assassins only REALLY care for pointclick instant cc (like say annie's ult/ ryze's snare/etc) these abilities are very rare, and only a few champions have them.
You're confusing general cc with the actual cc they care for, yi for example(if he isn't bronze trash or something) will just react to any skillshot based/telegraphed cc with his q, while being immune to slows, annie's ult screws him over, fizz is the same, yasuo is the same, le broken drops her abilities so fast even annie will struggle against her, and so on.
What I'm saying is that the game is so heavily balanced around using cc to "counterplay" everything that it's staggering.
6 of the last 8 released champions had hard cc. ALL of them had cc at least in the form of a slow, which in the case of, say, Kindred and Illaoi, the two champions without hard cd, was a STRONG slow, not just some measly 20% 30% or even 50%.
3 of these 6 have not one, but multiple hard crowd controls.
If this isn't creep, what is?
And then your comment about assassins... It's obvious you've never played assassins, please don't embarrass yourself.
manbearswine1 votesWhat I'm saying is that the game is so heavily balanced around using cc to "counterplay" everything that it's staggering.
Well, how many options do you think they have? counterplay through:
If you are going to use something as broad as "cc" there's just not many levers riot can pull, so naturally a lot of things are counterplayed by cc, same as a lot of things are counterplayed through damage and mobility.
6 of the last 8 released champions had hard cc.
taliya, sol, jhin= squishies with no escape generally always have hard cc, either as self defense or to put their enemies in the same level of risk they are in. kench, bard=supports, I don't feel I need to add upon that. ekko= is a mess, I'll give you that.
So basically 5/6 of these guys belong to classes who pretty much need it in order to work.
ALL of them had cc at least in the form of a slow, which in the case of, say, Kindred and Illaoi, the two champions without hard cd, was a STRONG slow, not just some measly 20% 30% or even 50%.
Well Illaoi is an immobile bruiser, she kinda needs a means to stick to her target if she get's to said target. Kindred's slow is getting nerfed, and she's been crazy overpowered since release, so it's unfair to talk about balance and kindred since kindred doesn't know a balanced state yet.
3 of these 6 have not one, but multiple hard crowd controls.
kench/bard= supports, so again, don't feel like there's anything to add here. sol= is a mage, and sometimes these guys have quite a lot of cc.
If this isn't creep, what is?
Compare them to their respective roles, kench/bard aren't amazingly high on cc compared to other supports, taliyah/sol aren't amazingly high on cc compared to other squishy mages with no escapes, jhin isn't amazingly high on cc compared to other adcs with no escapes, ekko I don't know what to compare to, but yeah, he's a mess.
Creep is something which is more prevalent among newer releases, cc isn't that, but arguably mobility is.
And then your comment about assassins... It's obvious you've never played assassins, please don't embarrass yourself.
Obviously you've never properly played an assassin, please don't embarrass yourself.
Pierce The Veal1 votesWell, how many options do you think they have? counterplay through:
- damage of all sorts
- damage reduction/sustain of all sorts.
- cc of all sorts
- mobility of all sorts
If you are going to use something as broad as "cc" there's just not many levers riot can pull, so naturally a lot of things are counterplayed by cc, same as a lot of things are counterplayed through damage and mobility.
taliya, sol, jhin= squishies with no escape generally always have hard cc, either as self defense or to put their enemies in the same level of risk they are in. kench, bard=supports, I don't feel I need to add upon that. ekko= is a mess, I'll give you that.
So basically 5/6 of these guys belong to classes who pretty much need it in order to work.
Well Illaoi is an immobile bruiser, she kinda needs a means to stick to her target if she get's to said target. Kindred's slow is getting nerfed, and she's been crazy overpowered since release, so it's unfair to talk about balance and kindred since kindred doesn't know a balanced state yet.
kench/bard= supports, so again, don't feel like there's anything to add here. sol= is a mage, and sometimes these guys have quite a lot of cc.
Compare them to their respective roles, kench/bard aren't amazingly high on cc compared to other supports, taliyah/sol aren't amazingly high on cc compared to other squishy mages with no escapes, jhin isn't amazingly high on cc compared to other adcs with no escapes, ekko I don't know what to compare to, but yeah, he's a mess.
Creep is something which is more prevalent among newer releases, cc isn't that, but arguably mobility is.
Obviously you've never properly played an assassin, please don't embarrass yourself.
With how many cc abilities there are, dodging one of two doesn't matter, as an assassin you WILL inevitably get hit by some cc somewhere.
My point is we really don't need to have CC on EVERY champion. It's literally so prevalent that besides Morde and Yi and perhaps 1-2 other champions I can't recall, everyone has it. This isn't about "relative." This isn't about the "only solution to mobility creep." Lookie here, the solution for mobility creep shouldn't be preventing a champion from moving for over 2 seconds at a time so that you can chain cc and kill them. Once one piece of crowd control hits, game over, all of the proceeding cc is guaranteed to hit. So while mobility can dodge cc, if so much as a single ability hits you you're fucked.
I really find it amusing how you deem yourself to be an expert of assassins when you literally only play champions like poppy and zyra and no assassins. In short, you're clearly biased towards CC, and against assassins. You're not here to have an objective discussion.
manbearswine1 votesWith how many cc abilities there are, dodging one of two doesn't matter, as an assassin you WILL inevitably get hit by some cc somewhere.
How much hard cc do you think a team has? Do you really think they can all surround the assassin and throw all of their cc at him? Because it doesn't work that way.
My point is we really don't need to have CC on EVERY champion. It's literally so prevalent that besides Morde and Yi and perhaps 1-2 other champions I can't recall, everyone has it.
As I've said there are basically 4 types of abilities, and each champion has four(which often consist of more than one type), damage is the most common, then comes cc, then comes mobility, and finally comes sustain/damage reductions, and naturally every one of these is fairly common.
This isn't about "relative." This isn't about the "only solution to mobility creep."
Nobody said it was, in fact riot generally fight mobility with mobility, hence mobility creep.
Lookie here, the solution for mobility creep shouldn't be preventing a champion from moving for over 2 seconds at a time so that you can chain cc and kill them. Once one piece of crowd control hits, game over, all of the proceeding cc is guaranteed to hit. So while mobility can dodge cc, if so much as a single ability hits you you're fucked.
So first of all, qss and banshee's are a thing(also zhonya's), second you have very limited time before yi/kata melt your entire team or zed kills his target or fizz has his e back up again, you can't have high reward without high risk.
I really find it amusing how you deem yourself to be an expert of assassins when you literally only play champions like poppy and zyra and no assassins.
Also lulu, don't forget lulu, it's my highest mastery champ after all.
In short, you're clearly biased towards CC, and against assassins. You're not here to have an objective discussion.
I think you should face the fact that the majority of players either hate assassins or play them, but either way you are wrong, you say assassins are weak to cc, and that I'm "biased towards cc", why would I hate the very champions I supposedly counter? It's like a zed main hating jinx: it makes no sense.
Pierce The Veal1 votesHow much hard cc do you think a team has? Do you really think they can all surround the assassin and throw all of their cc at him? Because it doesn't work that way.
As I've said there are basically 4 types of abilities, and each champion has four(which often consist of more than one type), damage is the most common, then comes cc, then comes mobility, and finally comes sustain/damage reductions, and naturally every one of these is fairly common.
Nobody said it was, in fact riot generally fight mobility with mobility, hence mobility creep.
So first of all, qss and banshee's are a thing(also zhonya's), second you have very limited time before yi/kata melt your entire team or zed kills his target or fizz has his e back up again, you can't have high reward without high risk.
Also lulu, don't forget lulu, it's my highest mastery champ after all.
I think you should face the fact that the majority of players either hate assassins or play them, but either way you are wrong, you say assassins are weak to cc, and that I'm "biased towards cc", why would I hate the very champions I supposedly counter? It's like a zed main hating jinx: it makes no sense.
I'm not saying you hate assassins, I'm saying you're more likely to oppose my point because you play champions that naturally rival, but not necessarily counter, assassins. Their job is to counter assassins, AND anyone else who wants a jump on the carry for the most part. Thus, you are more likely to notice them messing you up rather than the other way around. For champions who kill so easily, but die extremely easily, being hit by a single CC effect is instant death.
I haven't, however, forgotten banshees and merc. Do remember that as an assassin you'll be losing a damage slot if AD, and two damage slots if you are AP if you build both of the items. To be honest, I am rather ok with most skill shot crowd control abilities, however the ones that last long enough for them all to jump you even when their team isn't close enough just plays around making it so that a player can no longer play the game for the period of the CC. Morg's snare is a good example of a skill shot that I'm willing to say is a ridiculous cc. Another? Leblanc's chains. Yet another? Amumu's bandage toss.
And abilities that are just point click cc honestly should have a really good reason for being such. As someone who use to play fiddle a lot, I can honestly say that that fear is honestly ridiculous even after the nerfs.
In the end, however, mobility too is perhaps bad for the game. What would be intersting, however, is if every champion just had much larger movement speed. We spend so much time just walking from place to place, if instead, every ability and movement speed was sped up by around 50%, we'd see a huge increase in game speed and perhaps reduced value in flash, which for the longest time has been the dominant summoner spell. I do, however, think that too many dashes are not good for the health of the game
manbearswine1 votesI'm not saying you hate assassins, I'm saying you're more likely to oppose my point because you play champions that naturally rival, but not necessarily counter, assassins.
You say that cc is the biggest counter to assassins, and my most played champions are as follows: lulu(this one is definitely an assassin counter), zyra( Definitely a mage high on cc), and poppy(A tank, high on cc as well), by your logic how do these champions rival assassins if they supposedly have abilities which hard counter said assassins?
Their job is to counter assassins, AND anyone else who wants a jump on the carry for the most part.
So they are supposedly assassin counters AND peelers, still assassin counters by your claims though.
Thus, you are more likely to notice them messing you up rather than the other way around.
Can you elaborate on that, because I really can't see why that would happen, if I counter them then instead they are supposed to be much more likely to notice me messing them up than the other way around, that's kind of what a counter is supposed to mean.
For champions who kill so easily, but die extremely easily, being hit by a single CC effect is instant death.
Too bad they are given the tools to easily avoid it, unless as I've said "point click instant cc".
I haven't, however, forgotten banshees and merc. Do remember that as an assassin you'll be losing a damage slot if AD, and two damage slots if you are AP if you build both of the items.
So build only zhonya's/merc depending on which you are, besides, what the hell is this insane notion that you are supposed to bypass weaknesses for free?
To be honest, I am rather ok with most skill shot crowd control abilities, however the ones that last long enough for them all to jump you even when their team isn't close enough just plays around making it so that a player can no longer play the game for the period of the CC. Morg's snare is a good example of a skill shot that I'm willing to say is a ridiculous cc. Another? Leblanc's chains. Yet another? Amumu's bandage toss.
You realize that aside from le broken (who is a retarded piece of shit), most of these guys have most of their power in these semi-obnoxious abilities, hence why they vary wildly based on if they hit or not, you know, kinda like assassins are feast or famine, but to a much more obnoxious level.
And abilities that are just point click cc honestly should have a really good reason for being such. As someone who use to play fiddle a lot, I can honestly say that that fear is honestly ridiculous even after the nerfs.
They generally come with a reduced range, and yes, they always have a good reason for being such.
In the end, however, mobility too is perhaps bad for the game. What would be intersting, however, is if every champion just had much larger movement speed. We spend so much time just walking from place to place, if instead, every ability and movement speed was sped up by around 50%, we'd see a huge increase in game speed and perhaps reduced value in flash, which for the longest time has been the dominant summoner spell. I do, however, think that too many dashes are not good for the health of the game
I honestly don't think mobility is a problem by itself, I think the problem is improper payoffs for it, mobility often comes for "free"(You don't pay the full worth of it out of your power budget), making mobile champions stronger at average than immobile ones, riot has been doing a better job try to give new "immobile"(I wouldn't really call sol immobile, but he's not exactly mobile either) champions proper payoffs for not having it (this is why sol has a knockback on his ult, or taliyah and her e+w), but older ones(or "failed" new ones) are often left behind with kits which don't work properly in the more mobile meta.
Maximum Morde2 votesWhere is the poll option for Weeb champions.
The Whamboozler2 votesYour poll is too vague. Most people are angry at specific champions, not roles. Also, if Riven doesn't count as an assassin, neither do Yi and Yasuo.
RaptorKarr1 votesRiven is Fighter then assassin Yi and Yas are assassins then Fighters, which makes her the light fighter, not them :3
Ackelope3 voteswell if you wanna go by riot's official classifications, yes, yi is an assassin, but both riven and yasuo are fighters before assassins, so using it to classify riven as a fighter but then classify yasuo as an assassin is kinda wrong.
RaptorKarr1 votesWhich is dumb since Yasuo isn't as tanky as Riven he's to squishy to be a light fighter, Riven is THE light fighter. Riven has more aspects of a fighter then Yasuo does.
Ackelope1 votesi can agree with that, but it's not to say yasuo can't function as a fighter. i've seen some pretty serviceable tanky builds on him in my time, and the fact that part of his kit is devoted to defending himself lends a little further towards fighter.
but yeah i've played them both a decent bit, if more riven, and i think i can say pretty accurately that riven is more fighter-esque than yasuo.
manbearswine1 votesYour poll is too vague. Most people are angry at specific champions, not roles. Also, if Riven doesn't count as an assassin, neither do Yi and Yasuo.
Yi is definitely an assassin(also other things), yasuo and riven are closer to the assassin class than anything else, so yeah, it's fair.
Shadòw2 votesmy problem are the Assasins that build tank and still do dmg
THE RlVER KlNG2 votesSupports because their ADC always gets toxic from blaming everything on them.
WyvernEgg2 votesWhere are adc's?
Laustin Space2 votesI personally feel that ADC's are the most rage inducing for me.
MavenSong1 votesThat misguided person who voted support (shakes head)
to clearify, its far more frustrating to get one shot then just annoyed at supports. i can see the logic but i disagree.
Malicious Metal1 votesJanna keeping me from mauling her ADC is infuriating!
But I didn't vote Support. Frankly, i didn't vote at all.
MavenSong1 votesthats fair enough but is it as rage inducing as getting one shot? who am i kidding your morde... lol
Pierce The Veal1 votesthats fair enough but is it as rage inducing as getting one shot? who am i kidding your morde... lol
Yes it's fucking 10 times more rage inducing to see yourself locked down.
And it's also fucking annoying to try to kill an ADC when Soraka has built around making sure you deal no damage to him/her.
Fuck supports. I'd rather play against a Zed or Akali or assassins like them any day rather than have to deal with the utter cancer that is Braum, Thresh, Leona, Soraka, and more.
MealReadytoEat1 votesThresh honestly doesn't usually bother me.
Pierce The Veal1 votesThresh honestly doesn't usually bother me.
You apparently haven't played against a max cdr thresh that can actually land his abilities. If he wants to, he can singlehandedly make sure you don't really get to play the game, unless you're someone like akali, who can just dash away and avoid fighting when he's nearby.
MealReadytoEat1 votesJanna is the most rage inducing champ by far for me as well. Then again I'm also a Morde main, but it goes for the other champions I play too.
Pierce The Veal1 votesThat misguided person who voted support (shakes head)
to clearify, its far more frustrating to get one shot then just annoyed at supports. i can see the logic but i disagree.
I was gonna vote support as well but I'm on mobile.
Supports with their healing and CC are 10 times more annyoing than assassins in my eyes. Only exception being Rango, who also annoys me.
Left Hook Larry1 votesofc no option for adcs
biggest %%%%s
japan hate acc1 votesBy that logic, Yasuo isn't an assassin either. He's a skirmisher. Same with Yi, oftentimes.
Old Man Teeto1 votesEvery class has an insane amount of complaints directed towards them the moment their itemization is good.
I'll stick towards
Top/Mid being the roles the most complained about champions are being played at though.
LSmaster161 votesSupports, everyone rages at them, even their own team
Spicy Rice1 votesCan I say that yasuo is considered a light fighter / melee adc and IS NOT an assassin
The Deckowner1 votesEnemy assasin, ally adc.
