My opinion on Ahri changes

TransientHikari·Oct 30, 2013·3 votes·797 views

Hey, I main Ahri and does anyone think the ahri changes in 3.13 are pretty hard? I think I'm about to rant but I mean she got her damage nerfed by 25.4% (Not including charm damage amp) but the charm now increases it for 4 seconds by 20%? I think the increased mana cost also makes her early game more challenging but can be easier for other champions to snowball against her. I mean, I keep charm at 1 point till around lvl 8 which costs only about 50 mana. But since its increased by 35 now, which is 170% of the original cost at lvl 1. I feel they nerfed her early game pretty hard and she will probably need to build a DFG to do as much damage as she used to. I mean the nerfs could have been worse but isn't this taking it just a bit too much?

Before, it would take all of my skills just to burst down a single person. (Not considering if they dodge the Q skill shot) I think maybe a 15% nerf on her damage would have been fine, maybe decrease the speed of her charm or something would increase her skillcap and still keep her as a bursty mage but I found myself just getting destroyed because I had to use everything I had including the jungler just to get a kill, and it was barely enough to snowball considering there is no time to amplify her spirit rush damage even if I use it during my combo.

21 Comments

KhareOct 30, 20133 votes

I think they should leave the AP scaling on her ult alone. She needs to assassinate late game (or when enemy ADC has a MR item), and unless she has the scalings she's pigeonholed into building DFG

DeejilatorOct 30, 20134 votes

I also agree with this her ratios weren't good to begin with, compared with other assassins, and now they are even lower.

RiotRiot LilyHazeOct 30, 20131 votes

If she lands a charm, her ult will do more damage than before. Enough damage to make up for the decrease in damage on Fox-fire. I posted the math below.

DeejilatorOct 30, 20132 votes

I agree with this. They want to emphasize us landing charms but make her lvl 1 mana cost so high that it's almost like a blitz hook if u miss it. Plus with the rly high decrease to her dmg on fox fire i feel like they are pigeonholing us right into DFG first or bust which is what I thought they were trying to get away from. I feel like Ahri's laneing is being hit far too hard just to try and stop her from some late game burst. Honestly imo the prob is DFG not Ahri. That item has been in a weird spot since season 2 it was strong back then, they nerfed it into the ground then had to bring it back and it's strong once again. I'm still gonna try and play Ahri but I feel like these nerfs are on the Diana level of extreme.

Now of course all this is pure speculation and I admit that I could end up being wrong but on first glance it seems like Ahri is being nerfed into the ground simply because some high level players figured out DFG is broken.

LaxIsBackOct 30, 20132 votes

this is why i dont like to see my fav champs on LCS :(

I <3 Ahri

even if nerfed, the noobs will not have time to rest from being wreck by ahri, even if overnerfd >:D

RiotRiot LilyHazeOct 30, 20132 votes

If a charm is hit, Fox-Fire will only deal minorly less damage (268.8 + (0.768 AP) comapred to 280 + (0.8 AP). Spirit Rush now deals (540 + (1.08 AP)) comapred to the old (495 + (1.05 AP)) when hitting a charmed target. This assumes all three spirit rushes hit the target, but each individual spirit rush proc will deal extra damage to charmed targets. So you lose 11.1 damage and 0.032 AP scaling on your Fox-Fire, and in return you get 45 damage and 0.03 AP scaling on your ult. If even only 1 Spirit Rush hits your target, your damage is in the positive if they are charmed.

This emphasizes trying to stick to that target and burst them, instead of accidentally bursting everyone else at the same time, or randomly bursting people even though you didn't charm them. This will definitely hurt Ahri's early game by making ranks 1 through 3 of Charm more expensive, especially at level 1. The trade off is later in the game your charm is cheaper, and of course, the increased damage for hitting it.

Edit: If you disagree, post instead of just downvoting. Downvoting just because you disagree is pointless.

DeejilatorOct 30, 20131 votes

I'll agree with your first paragraph as it makes since, and tbh I'll admit that I didn't do the math which is why in my first post I could be wrong. But regarding the charm mana cost change. While yes late game the mana cost is better but it is also arguably harder to hit a charm late game during a team fight. While in the laneing phase where it is theoretically easier to hit a charm and you need the extra damage even more the mana cost makes firing anything but the most sure fire charm a joke imo. Ahri, like most assassins, needs to get ahead early to continue to do well across the game but with charm being so emphasized but so expensive I strongly feel that that is going to become even harder to do now.

Like I said I could be wrong and I'll wait to play her for my final judgement but at face value the 35 mana increase to charm lvl 1 seems like it is going to hurt her laneing phase to hard.

Edit: Though since so many of them are probably so tired of reading the topics about nerfing Ahri they might not even read this one, I would like to hear a rioters opinion on the change that the increase in cost will have on her early game, since in most of the discussions this doesn't seem to be brought up.

RiotRiot LilyHazeOct 30, 20132 votes

I agree that hitting a charm in a teamfight, or during a siege scenario, is hard. However, hitting a charm that late also tends to end a fight. With the damage buff, its more likely that landing a charm then leads to a victory for Ahri's team.

If she has to have a rough laning phase to have that power, so be it. I agree that the massive increase in her charm cost will hurt her in lane, and I do not have any complaints there. She still has her CC, and she can still, even if behind, win fights with that charm CC alone lategame if her team can follow up correctly. Other assassins must rely on their own damage to win a fight.

LaxIsBackOct 30, 20131 votes

not to mention that in fact they changed her core gameplay, something that they argue that didnt wanted to change, and this makes her more boring, i would like to know why they didnt find other way to balance her without changing her mechanics.

RiotRiot LilyHazeOct 30, 20131 votes

Could you expand on this? How, exactly, is her core gameplay changed?

LaxIsBackOct 30, 20132 votes

like building DFG is obligatory, any other build is totally destroyed, you can no longer define the combo, like engage with R, use E, then everything else, now, if you use even one charge of R before E, you lost lots of damage, and they removed the viability to use E as a peeling option, in teamfights sometimes landing charm on a target that wasnt your objective, but that potentialy would shut you down if you get close, this was really cunning and in any way overpowered, now you just E+DFG and then faceroll QWRRR before DFG and R amp vanish... and not to mention that R now you most use it just for damage after E and no longer as a repositioning tool.

however, i will continuing playing ahri, but hell she is more boring with these changes.

Solan StonewhipOct 30, 20131 votes

i don't think that's true. they left her q alone. which was the hallmark of mage ahri. what they did was make it so that you can't really assassinate someone without landing charm. that's all. the nerf to her ult is a little more than i would have done. but they can and will tweak her back up if they feel it's necessary

1 WingOct 31, 20131 votes

I think this is actually what is wrong with the update: it exemplifies the "mage Ahri" build. The previous kit exemplifies simply "Ahri."

Solan StonewhipOct 31, 20131 votes

i disagree. there are plenty of people on the other side of hte aisle that think that this a big nerf to mage ahri too (because of her ult and foxfire)

i think that this is a great adaptation to ahri and if anything they will end up buffing her a bit. but i love the changes.

i remember on one game, (i was not playing terribly well) as ahri, i melted the support zyra even though i missed my taunt. she just didn't ahve any chance whatsoever. i mean, hitting hte taunt is the prereq of assassin ahri and if anything these changes enforce that. yet they preserved mage ahri by keeping her q strong.

TransientHikariOct 30, 20131 votes

Although would you engage someone only using E + R? It might give 0.03 which is like the havoc mastery just 1% extra which isnt much, just 1%. Plus your full combo will still do less damage. I mean I understand, but Ahri isnt a total damage nuke overkill like Zed where you can kill them before your death mark even explodes so just nerfing her will make it a harder for players to learn how to play her.

RiotRiot LilyHazeOct 31, 20131 votes

Your full combo will not do noticeably less damage if you hit a charm. As detailed above, you actually make up for the loss of Fox-Fire damage with one 1 charge from your Spirit Rush. Post-charm Fox-fire deals 11.1 (+0.032 AP) less damage. A single foxfire charge deals 15 (+0.01 AP) more damage damage than her old spirit rush procs. This amounts to a different of ~5 points of damage at 300 AP. With more spirit rush charges, you will deal more damage than you lost.

TransientHikariOct 30, 20131 votes

I also think that they are forcing her to buy more damage instead of utility, which in turn would make her squishier and hurts mage ahris a LOT more then assassination ahris who build deathfire anyways simply because they are already incorperating the DFG into their build already.

1 WingOct 31, 20131 votes

In my opinion, these changes make Ahri much more difficult to use for new players; especially with the much higher cost on her charm at early levels. As well, it is now only viable to use Ahri's passive, with her Q; Q will likely hit twice, at least, so this was just a stupid, and uneducated modification to her kit.

Ahri's previous balance, made her deal equal damage against an Akali in lane. Because of the current changes, if Ahri misses her charm: she will now lose the duel. Before, the damage would cause a draw, now the scenario will be a loss, because Ahri must land her charm each time to do as much damage as before.

Again, this makes her much more difficult to use for a new player, and also restricts her options in battle for more advanced players. Ahri's "route" now has to land e, to be viable. Before, it was possible for other routes to at least be allowed.

Personally, I will now reduce the amount I play Ahri, considerable, though she has technically been my best champion. I think these nerfs suck; I won't play Ahri now!

INTs over FloatNov 2, 20131 votes

Ahri now take the skill of faker to be played effectively.

THEMANIACEApr 3, 20141 votes

Did you guys also read the fact that if an enemy is charmed, the passive "Doomed!" gives a 20% increase in damage to her true damage on her "Orb of Deception" as well? Doomed lasts 6 seconds, the duration of 3 charm taunts (harmless).

THEMANIACEJul 4, 20141 votes

Ahri's AP ratios are low because if they weren't, it's like getting a pentakill with either Yi or Katarina. Not much effort except for hitting everyone in a line constantly.