A Lissandra thought

Giráfárig·Jun 6, 2014·5 votes·1,307 views

I know people are quite rowdy when it comes to "She's so useless, her range is pathetic" (etc etc) I however know she has great potential for her team especially as a kiter. People are demanding changes to her and I just thought of a couple that could increase her kiting capabilities and perhaps bring a new utility no other mid laner could offer.

Q-Ice Shard: After it splits maybe you could make the shards also slow down the units hit by the shrapnel, but to a less severe degree (IE a target that gets hit by the pre shattered ice shard is slowed 16% while the units behind said target are only slowed 8 %)This would also benefit her passive for more clutch no mana ults.

W-Ring of frost: I have very little suggestions for this ability as I know it is meant for self-peeling or for when you all in with glacial path. A small buff could be to increase its range by 100 to make for easier harass on your enemies, and not forced to sit back spamming ice shots and aa's at your distant lane opponent.

E- Glacial path: This is a fantastic gap closer that requires a little patience to use effectively. While it is quite simple to sneak up on a standard opponent with this ability i can not count the amount of times that I have used this and my opponent has already ran out of the distance of any of my abilities and I'm left standing there spamming laugh to make myself feel better. My suggestion would be to maybe add a 50% aoe slow that decays rapidly to the area lissandra ends up on with her ability just to give you a little time for some great opportunities.

R- Frozen Tomb: I have absolutely no problems with her ultimate, the only suggestion i might have is for you to maybe be able to cancel the stasis early when you use the ultimate on yourself, perhaps use it on yourself to only dodge a clutch ahri charm and be able to peace out effectively.

These are just my sleep deprived thoughts on the Ice witch, what do you guys think?

18 Comments

CaptainWednesdayJun 6, 20144 votes

Seems like a lot of buffs that she does need. The only thing I like is the Q slow. I have always wanted this to be the way the Ice Shard worked. The W is not meant to be used as harass, so adding more range is not a good idea. The E does not need a slow! 3 out of 4 abilities already CC. The only I think it needs to be able to cast it while moving without the brief stop. Anyway, that's just my two-cents.

GiráfárigJun 6, 20142 votes

Fair enough! Its just the way people describe her I just gave some thoughts on all abilities, but yes you are right about the brief stop on the E, and the range on w might be too much but If they were to buff it thats the only possible way I think it could be improved. (Longer root maybe?) Either way thanks for the input :D

CaptainWednesdayJun 6, 20142 votes

Lissandra is meant to kite her enemies before going all in with a kill. I think the two simple changes to her Q and E would be amazing.

WorgslargJun 6, 20142 votes

Lissandra is meant to kit her enemies before going all in with a kill. I think the two simple changes to her Q and E would be amazing.

The other thing this accomplishes is smoothing her kit out a bit with little/no power creep

HazeyInDaHeadJun 6, 20141 votes

If I understand this correctly, youre saying that Liss is to use her really short skill shot to try to poke people down, W them when they try to get close, wait for w to come back up while they are rooted for 1? second, then magically be able to re-engage them after her CDs are back and theirs somehow arent if they blew any at all?

I see a wukong e'ing her and then she roots him and walks away or es away and he can give chase or wait for her to come back whats the difference?

I highly doubt Lissandra was designed to kite. If she was she would have no cast animations and longer ranges such as velkhoz, whom in their champion spotlight highlighted his kiting mechanics.

Lissandras kit is a really crappy kit if its designed for kiting

CaptainWednesdayJun 7, 20143 votes

"Lissandra is a flexible, mana-efficient mage with abilities that emphasize crowd control, kiting and mobility over raw damage." - RiotGoodKing

Pulled straight from the Lissandra Announcement.

HazeyInDaHeadJun 13, 20141 votes

Idk, kiting with lissandra is a dangerous game to play. Its not easy and is similar to kiting with vayne.

Compare her kiting to the simplicity of velkhoz.

Lissandra has to blow a medium cd spell, w, to guarantee a kite. Then she has to remain within a very very short distance to continue to kite with q.

Using E to kite is inefficient because you just used your escape.

Her cooldowns dont really allow for kiting with anything except Q over any extended period of time. Otherwise she is just escaping and covering her ass. I think thats different than kiting.

Kiting is an extended long distance skirmish with the goal of keeping the enemy within a certain distance of yourself. With Lissandra, kiting requires her to stay within almost vayne aa range to land the slow or blow 10+ second cds to reposition. After that youre not kiting anymore because they can still gapclose. A lot of gap closers are even on lower CDs than Liss's W and E (wukong E for example)

CaptainWednesdayJun 13, 20141 votes

I still feel like she can kite. She is not like Ashe or other kiters that simply whittle an enemy down until they die, oh no. Lissandra kites for a few moments before obliterating her enemies with ice and her ultimate.

Just keep in mind I mentioned kiting because that's her general description. I do not kite with her very often, but she can.

HazeyInDaHeadJun 13, 20141 votes

I can only see that happening when you land a couple Qs, sure that enables kiting but the range is so miniscule that you would need to use all of her abilities to successfully kite and then the enemy has her CD window to dis/engage.

If they are dumb and stay then ofc they deserve to die.... but how often does that happen in the "relevant" elos?

Dax AyrtonJun 6, 20142 votes

I love Lissandra

I agree about slowing enemies getting hit by the Q's splash. This would not only improve her kiting capabilities, it would render her otherwise useless passive more useful.

The W and E changes you proposed are not really necessary.

Two things that would be interesting to see on Lissandra is making her E deal a little bit of damage the instant she and the claw switches places, and only in a small area where she lands. Also, I like for the invulnerability she gains when she ults herself to be cancellable.

HazeyInDaHeadJun 6, 20142 votes

That would be so slick...

dodging a chasing jinx ult as you are being chased by her teammates..

ult self - dodge jinx ult - cancel self ult - root chasers and e away

DvoltJun 6, 20141 votes

Well, not being the greatest player, I feel it's only fair to say that Lissandra is fairly strong from my experience against her.

Q is alright, but it's one of the few skill shots with such range that you can't avoid by being behind minions. The Aoe on it is fairly generous, so I really don't think she needs the additional slow.

For all I like the idea of getting more Teemo's snared, 100 range would give her some crazy wave clear with her passive.

...Path is really, really fine. It's awesome mobility that she can activate at almost any time to go in crazy places. giving it a slow feels a bit too much, ya know? I'd argue that running away from Lissandra's path is kinda what they're supposed to do to avoid it.

Being able to cancel the ability early takes away from the importance of her ult. When you decide to use an Hourglass, you are making a very important decision. "Do I avoid this damage nuke, or continue to deal damage?" When Lissandra uses her ultimate, she has the same decision to make. She pulls herself away from causing an action on the battlefield (Besides the damage and slow), allowing the enemy team to focus the rest of her allies.

WorgslargJun 6, 20141 votes

She feels in a good place damage wise to me. however, her q needs to slow all champions hit.

I feel like if anything else were to change, her e should deal less damage, and travel faster( or not have a casting time so you can cast while running)

Goldenelk598Jun 6, 20141 votes

Just a few thoughts on one of my favorite mages in league. Her Q...I like the idea of the second proc slowing. I always thought it should do that. Also the range. That is something that has kinda frustrated me with her. I know she is a very all in champion, but that Q range just feels so terrible when laning. Maybe a slight boost in the range could give her a little up lift against some of the better poke champs mid like ziggs and revamp her mid play. Her W I am okay with most of this ability, although I know riot is testing a possible shield concept which I am actually pretty excited about. The whole reason for lissandra is to go all in isolate a target for the team or you to burst, survive with a zhonyas and E away before dieing...but against a proper team that has substantial cc there may not be a chance to pop zhonyas before hand and liss is extermely squishy if built heavier on ap. I believe a shield on her w would give her a better chance of surviving if she goes all in. I mean kass has a shield and is not even close to as all in as liss since he can ult out a lot faster then her E comes up. As for her E I really dont have any issues. And her ult seems to be fine, although still has the annoying issues of ulting an enemy late if they have an escape.

HazeyInDaHeadJun 6, 20141 votes

I like increasing the claw speed myself. The slow is neat but I feel with all the other changes its too much

WorgslargJun 6, 20141 votes

She is one of few champions that feel in a good spot atm, but she has trouble executing her theme of a kiting mage, and is more of a teamfight initiator imo

HazeyInDaHeadJun 6, 20142 votes

she is not in a good spot.

Lissandra literally is not soloq viable. Maybe in 5's with coordination.

http://www.lolking.net/champions/lissandra&region=all&map=sr&queue=1x1#statistics

Stats speak for itself, she has a global winrate right now of 46% across all divisions

Diamond has below 50% and challenger she is picked so rarely that her winrate fulctuates by 20% day to day

Lissandra literally stopped being useful after her post-release damage nerfs.

Her passive is really just an excuse to gate her spells with high mana costs and that is negated by her first item athenes. Liss gets a better passive from the item and now her passive is just an icon on a bar.

As an aside, Lissandra's theme was never to kite. She could potentially kite, but only with Q. W is more for a peel or escape if anything. All of her kit could kite but she wont kill anyone. Lissandra also lacks a lot of mobility outside of her slow moving interruptible and predictable gap closer.

What lissandra had going for her before nerfs was not engaging her with all of her CDs and avoiding her glacial path. Now just about anyone on equal footing with her can fully engage her and walk away every time

ILoveTiramisuJun 11, 20141 votes

I like lissandra and I like playing her on toplane and build her a bit tanky. She has a good kiting, peeling and engage. Poke, mobility in lane, and she is a ganker. I carry 50% of game in this meta with her. A big problem is just jarvan 4, he is best counter of lissandra in toplane.