Pre-game vote to kick/Ability to dodge pre-game/Pick order vs call order

FirahInDaBoof·Jul 23, 2014·3 votes·1,246 views

Due to the emergence of the new ban/report system and it taking a more in your face approach to the issue of toxicity in the community, i would like to propose a change that i believed would also help reduce the level of toxicity as well.

What i am suggesting Riot add in is the ability to vote and kick player in pre-game chat/champ select, this option would allow the players to be able to take action before things get out of hand. For example, today i played two ranked match in a row where my 4th pick literally refused to play anything else but one role. Of course he didn't get to play his role so he spammed the whole chat during champ select with "MId or feed" and "ADC or feed" and then proceed to feed during the game. A pre-game vote to kick system would have prevent this whole situation from happening and my team would not have wasted their time trying to play with someone who refused to cooperate.

Why does the team always have suffer because a certain individual is a bad sport? Is there really a legitimate reason as to why the players have to put up with this kind of act before the game even start? This suggested system could potentially prevent the problem from happening and allow the player to become the solution. Rather than having to play with the individual and then report him/her afterward, the players is allow to option to not play with this individual and therefore prevent the problem.

What i have in my mind is that a player can only be kick if it is an unanimous decision from all the other players. If the player that is being vote to be kick has a duo partner, then the partner should not be allow to have say in the voting. If the individual keep getting kick out of champ select multiple times, a time out message should be send to the individual to warn the player behavior.

I also want to discuss the idea of the pick order vs call order in rank game. Should pick order become an official rule for rank game? A lot of times, people get piss at each other during champ select because they don't get the role that they want. This problem of pick order vs call order usually occur in low elo game because no one respect the pick order > call order. This problem don't usually occur in higher elo game because higher elo respect the pick order.

I am put up two polls for the community to vote on these two ideas that could potentially help reduce the level of toxicity. If you feel that these ideas is not for you, do put up your reasons in the comment and we can discuss the potential of these ideas. I am also looking forward to change the way how this system will work

16 Comments

FirahInDaBoofJul 23, 20142 votes

Didn't realize you could only vote for one choice, disregard the pick order and focus on the vote to kick system.

MarhsallLee67Jul 23, 20142 votes

A kick option would be easily abusable, as it would allow people to kick whoever picks a "bad" champion.

FirahInDaBoofJul 23, 20141 votes

Ah yes, i did think about how this system can be abuse because someone pick a "bad" champ. But what is your definition of a bad pick? Is it champions that doesn't fall into the meta? Is it a niche pick where the match up might go even? People can always argue for their pick if it was reasonable enough.

For example, if your team is super squishy and the team require a tanky/beefy top lane, but the player pick a carry oriented top champion, i don't see anything wrong in that. The player is not purposely trolling his/her teammates to be exact, this is where communication should come in play and maybe compromise between players should happen. We are also talking about 4 people against 1, at the very least, 1 person would allow the pick to go through right?

I strongly believe that if you are not going to pick meta/OP pick champions in rank, maybe you should play normal instead because people are more casual in normal with champ picks. To me, rank game is serious business and unless you're going to perform at your best, you shouldn't pick sub-optimal/lack luster champions. I have seen people climb rank with weird niche pick, but what are the chance of it happening? You're talking about a bunch of serious people wanting to win and one individual might hinder the whole team.

What i have in mind is that we can use the feature of team finder to solve this problem. The player can select their preference of role and what champions they are comfortable playing. We can even do it with how the players want to be queue up with.

Ex. I would like to be queue with

People who are comfortable with meta picks.
People who might enjoy a weird pick.

GunnlaugJul 23, 20142 votes

This can get easily abused and people who stream would have a hard time getting into games. If you dont want to play a ga,e with the toxic person on your team, just dodge you lose 5 lp and you get to go get a snack. Come back and try again.

FirahInDaBoofJul 23, 20141 votes

Sorry, i don't know understand how a vote to kick system would affect how streamer get into games? Can you please elaborate on that matter for me?

On your solution to how to deal with a toxic player, it sound a bit unfair to the player themselves having to dodge the game and lose LP just because there is one toxic player? This also encourage the toxic player to keep up with his/her behavior because they can get what they want from doing so. Toxic behavior shouldn't be encourage but rather punish.

What i like to see is for Riot to add in a period of time before banning/champ select, which i would like to call "pre-game roll call" where all the players from the team can talk about what they want to play and such, and if it doesn't work out, then the player can choose to leave the room and go back to queuing up for new teammates with no penalty. This way the player is not punish for having to partner up with toxic individual and leading up to a bad game.

HackulatorJul 23, 20142 votes

Well, if people were afraid of getting ghosted, they could kick streamers, or if they jsut wanted to screw them over.

GunnlaugJul 23, 20141 votes

Well, if people were afraid of getting ghosted, they could kick streamers, or if they jsut wanted to screw them over.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. It happens in call of duty streams and mine craft streams and I've seen it from time to time in larger LOLL streams. Viewers would then vote kick the streamer for attention or just to piss him off. If he''s a toxic player which I don't understand how you can get one so early in the game, you'd have to learn to deal with it. If you can't cope with someone calling a position that you wanted to play, you should stop playing in general. Also, think of what the other team is gonna be seeing. They have their comp set out, they're all getting along and then suddenly, they get dispersed. Lastly, what happens to the person that gets voted out? A time ban? What if he were wrongly accused? there's so much that could be abused here it's just not worth. you lose some LP, don't cry, it's a game.

FirahInDaBoofJul 25, 20141 votes

I never said this will be a perfect system right off the bat. obviously this need some work and also suggestion from others. This system is not set up to deal with people that called my role or my champion, i respected pick order in ranked game, a lot of people don't respect pick order in lower elo and a majority of League players are in low elo (bronze - platinum).

I understand that League of Legends is a really popular game and the age range of the players can vary greatly, but i really don't appreciate your view of it's just a game, don't cry and get over it. For some people. League of legends can be more than a game to some people. League could be the only free time they get from working 8 hours straight, it could be a way to connect with friends and have fun, or it could be a career choice for someone. Are you telling me that everyone should just grow a thick skin and suck it up just because someone can't act a little bit more mature? Toxic players are everywhere in this game, it doesn't matter how early or late it is. How often do you encounter a toxic player? 4 out of 5 game for me i will run into someone who is toxic either on my team or the enemy team. My tolerance is pretty good on a normal day, but when i am constantly match up with toxic/troll teammates, i get piss off too.

What i have in mind in term of people abusing this system is, people who wrongly voted against the individual will be review by Riot, and if Riot see that the individual was kicked for unjust reason, then all of the players that voted to kick will be given a warning and if you acquire a certain amount of warning than you will get a timed out (your right to vote get disable, can't queue up for game, time ban on account).

I am not sure if it possible, but i was thinking that if one player get kicked out, the opponent team will stay the same, your team will get some time to wait for another person to join your game lobby.

HackulatorJul 23, 20142 votes

The vote a terrible idea that will never happen because Riot understands how the game works. It will be massively abused and will force everyone to play only a tiny champion pool. From another one of your posts:

"I strongly believe that if you are not going to pick meta/OP pick champions in rank, maybe you should play normal instead because people are more casual in normal with champ picks."

You basically want to to force ranked players to play one of 20 or so champions. This is just ridiculous and there are more reasons that it is even possible to address here. Many people are better on other champions and this would basically ruin ranked, nobody would want to play it any more after they realized they were pigeonholed into a tiny champion pool. Likewise, the game is for FUN, even in ranked, honestly unless you are a pro calling this video game "serious business" suggests you have a problem and need to take a break from the game.

TGMrFlibblesJul 23, 20141 votes

[deleted]

FirahInDaBoofJul 23, 20141 votes

Thanks for the feedback and your insight on the situation, it was a bit hard to read cause it is all clumped together into a giant wall of text lol.

What i am able to draw from reading your response is that we need to improve on how we communicate in League of Legends. This is a really good feedback that i would like to highlight. I agreed that often time, what happened in chat during champ select will carry over into your game and definitely have an impact on how well players perform.

But think about this. The first thing you see once you join in champ select is "Mid or feed", how would that make you feel about that individual? Does that boost your confidence in that person ability to play mid or does it make you feel like this player will not live up to the challenge? From my personal experience, most of the players that called for "Mid or feed" usually end up getting outplayed by their lane, then they blame the team and then proceed to rage against everyone in the team. This usually happen when the player is at 4th or last pick too.

I don't know about you, but to me, League of Legends should be a fun experience and also a challenging one. The players should not have to struggle with bad sport or even horrible attitude before the game even start. I understand that people have to struggle to grow, but we are trying to struggle against something that should not be in game at the first place. Instead of trying to play with a bad attitude/player, we should struggle playing against a better skilled player.

HackulatorJul 23, 20142 votes

People who say mid or feed are often terrible it is true. However, they are not MORE terrible than they are when they are intentionally feeding. While we can talk about punishments and ways to force people to act right, in any individual game you are playing in, you should take it as YOUR responsibility to make sure you have a viable team. Not because it's fair, but because that is how life works. If you want a situation to work out, YOU make it work out. This is a lesson not only for LoL but for life, it DOES NOT MATTER whose fault a problem is, it only matter who fixes it.

FirahInDaBoofJul 25, 20141 votes

Well, i am sure the pick order determine how you will pick your champions in rank, sure there are exception where higher pick will allow 4th/last pick, but to assume all the responsibility that I have to make the team comp work? As a player, i am expecting everyone of my teammates to contribute to make the team work, after all, League of Legends is a team game. But when someone just say like Mid or feed, it come off as an obnoxious way of saying, "Hey, screw all of you, i don't care what you people wanna do, but i am going mid cause i said so." I am always down to fill a role even if i am first pick. but you know for sure there are people out there that just don't want to work as a team in a team game.

I don't think your philosophy on life would work lol. Imagine if you're in a team project, and someone just told all of your teammates that he is gonna the leader and he don't give a crap what anybody say. How would you feel about that person? Would you in anyway consider giving that person the leadership? Punishment is there to punish those that are at fault, this system is suppose to punish people who are being obnoxious/toxic in pre-game chat, the matter of fixing the problem will be up to players.

Matthias9119Jul 23, 20141 votes

From the KB thread in ye olde TBI forum:

“I think there should be a vote to kick available in pre-game.”

Sadly, something like this would be subject to far too much abuse and presents too many problems.

People could vote-kick players who refused to play a certain role or champion.

People could vote-kick players who did not agree to a pre-arranged tactic.

People could look up a player’s ranking, match history or experience with a champion and use that to decide whether or not that person was “worthy” of playing with them.

Time spent on a vote detracts from an already short amount of time to build a team.

Discussion of the vote, either before or after, would lead to bad feelings and toxicity.

Credit to Matthias9119: Heroes of Newerth had a vote-kick system, but removed it due to abuse.

I know you mean well, but straight-up votekick just causes more problems than it solves.

I strongly believe that if you are not going to pick meta/OP pick champions in rank, maybe you should play normal instead because people are more casual in normal with champ picks. To me, rank game is serious business and unless you're going to perform at your best, you shouldn't pick sub-optimal/lack luster champions.

And I strongly feel that you should not block people from playing what they want to. With a handful of exceptions (which are all slated for reworks, such as Urgot, Sion, and Yorick) every champion is viable in Ranked play when used/built appropriately, at least up until Platinum or so. Player skill and knowledge makes an enormous difference.

Some sort of Ranked Team Builder would be great. You suggested the most obvious approach -- do the same as Team Builder in Normals but don't preselect a champ. There are two main issues with that:

What if you pick a role and then every viable champ you own for that role is picked/banned before it gets to you?
Less popular roles will have much shorter queue times. Players will quickly figure out they can queue for Support and then once you're into the actual picks/bans say "mid or feed" or "I'm going mid, deal". You might say 'well, they can do that now!', but if there's a Team Builder then someone on that team probably waited 15-20 minutes specifically to play mid or top, and this is a much worse experience for that player. If they dodge then they're looking at another 15-20 minute wait on top of the dodge penalty.

If you have solutions for those issues, I'm sure Riot would love to hear them...

Phoenix Kotori Jul 23, 20141 votes

Pick order is all but officially enforced. Riot said last year, that if players can not solve their pick difference thru communication than pick order matters, and the one who goes against it or refuses to follow it is the one in the wrong. They stated communication > pick order >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call order > ???.

Secondly riot has discussed before why a vote to kick in champ select would be highly problematic.

Instead I think we need something where the 5 players get a some time to communicate together, and then if all the players all satisfied with that they can hit "ready" or something like that and it starts normal drafting process and now normal queue dodge penalties apply, if any player doesn't select ready then it is disbanded or they're removed and it finds a new person without triggering the normal dodge penalty, but excessive use of the "not ready' would clear have it's own system to follow. To allow players a chance to avoid such toxicity with the problems of a vote to kick system.

FirahInDaBoofJul 25, 20141 votes

Yes, that is what i like Riot to implement as well. That is most of the problem during champ select too, nobody ever follow pick order in the low elo, only high elo respect pick order if any.