[4.10] Live Gameplay Patch Forecast

RiotRiot Wav3Break·6/5/2014, 4:30:03 AM·17 votes·34,108 views

Hey guys, Wav3Break here for the 4.10 Patch Forecast. I’ll be explaining some of the reasoning and insights that the balance team is using to approach some of the major issues we have found in live League of Legends gameplay. Keep in mind that this forecast is meant to highlight some of the problems we’ve identified and that not all issues mentioned will necessarily have changes reflecting them in the upcoming patch. Some changes might take longer than others and everything is subject to change! Without further ado:

**DISCLAIMER: I'M GOING TO BE SAYING MARKSMEN A LOT. **

4.10 – The Marksmen Patch: We're currently looking at a lot of things in and around the space of the marksmen role in League of Legends. In 4.10, we expect to tune a lot of game elements that currently impact the health and success of the role. You’ll be seeing a lot of changes regarding marksmen itemization paths, champions, items that affect their late game power, etc. Our overall goal is to make these champions feel more satisfying late game and shine even brighter as the powerful late game champions they were meant to be.

Edit for easier clarification:

With the changes coming in 4.10, we expect that the entire marksman role will be more powerful. That is why we are closely looking at the current dominant champions and making sure that they don't become over the top in the aftermath of implementing our overall role changes.

Marksmen we feel that are too strong: We feel that the following champions currently warp the role in such a way that it is unhealthy for the role itself and/or the holistic game. The power of these characters negatively impacts the overall viability of other marksmen and we plan on making some changes to bring them back in line with their marksbrothers and markssisters.

1) Twitch

As Jag mentioned in our 4.8 patch forecast (http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/gTkfbmI6-48-live-gameplay-patch-forecast), Twitch is an incredibly powerful champ that has been on our radar since his rise in popularity in both competitive and casual play. Our current feelings on this sneaky rat are that his early game power does not give him enough weaknesses to offset his hyper scaling carry potential in the late game. Our challenge is to retune his early game dominance to be better balanced with his late game power levels.

**2) Lucian **

Lucian is still widely regarded as one of the safest and most reliable marksmen in all levels of play. His early game poke via Piercing Light and a scaling double-hit passive allow him to dominate the lane phase while also dealing very respectable damage late game. These problems coupled with his innate safety continue to allow him to dominate the role. In this upcoming patch we plan to retune some his early game strengths and give him well-defined weaknesses and strengths throughout all stages of the game.

Marksmen that we feel need some special lovin’: We feel that the following champions have currently fallen out of flavor for reasons that specifically have to do with their lack of power or loss of late game identity. We plan to implement changes that will help these champions reestablish themselves as compelling markspeople to play in the current live game.

1) Sivir

Our previous changes to Sivir were aimed at reducing her capabilities in the early game to push minion waves down while avoiding any interaction with her lane opponent(s). While the changes we last implemented did accomplish this goal, we feel that some of the constraints we enforced on her early game currently inhibit her identity as a powerful AOE Marksmen in the late game. Thus we are looking to retune some of her mana issues in the late game to make her feel more like the powerful ricochet damage dealer she was meant to be.

2) Tristana

Tristana is one of the most classic Marksmen and we’ve identified her as one of the weaker ones in today’s landscape. That being said, we believe there are many low risk changes we can actualize to make her a more attractive champion in the live game.

Game Systems that impact the Marksmen role (Marksmen Items / Defensive Items):

1) Warden’s Mail and Randuin’s Omen

These items are currently the premier buys for players wishing to itemize against ubiquitous physical damage. While we want to maintain the defensive effectiveness of these items, we feel that they may be too powerful due to their combination of high base stats and unique passives.

2) Life Steal Itemization

The game systems team has a lot of changes for marksman itemization (specifically centered on life steal) that they'll go into on their upcoming game systems forecast.

**Other Pressing Issues: **

1) LeBlanc

As mentioned in the previous patch forecasts, we are continuing our efforts in creating a healthy LeBlanc for League of Legends. We still enjoy her skill requirements and mind-gamey playstyle, but LeBlanc’s issues reach further into the core of the character and therefore the scope of our long term goals for her have also increased. Still, due to her power and lack of counter play in the live game, we are looking at some incremental changes that will make her play pattern healthier and maintain her defining playstyle.

Champion Rework Updates: We've got some champion rework updates on the way in the form of Nidalee and Skarner, so head over to the champion update forecast (http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-skins/ZuUsm0U8-champion-updateupdate-49-410) for more information there.

297 Comments

0813 17076/5/2014, 5:45:41 AM79 votes

WTF wheres Quinn? Shes never been viable at any stage in the game ever and i've never seen her played professionally at all.

Vortex IV6/5/2014, 4:51:55 AM55 votes

I don't think nerfing twitch and lucian really fits the novel that morello wrote out for nerfing recently. It just shows that Riot nerfs what's played and not what's actually out of balance. Twitch was no more imbalanced right now than he was before his VU, the VU caused more people to play him and now he's suddenly nerfworthy? Lucian is "safe" and "reliable" and that's a bad thing? He's probably the only adc that is actually relatively close to where all adcs should be.

Stop nerfing strong champions because they get played too often and bring other champions up to their level so there's an actual meaningful choice to be made in champ select. That's a much better route than nerfing everything that stands out down to a mediocre state (this one reeks of Ghostcrawler).

CSDragon6/5/2014, 6:55:26 AM26 votes

I posted this last time Twitch came up, and it got a lot of up votes, but no riot responce. Mostly due to me posting it over a day late. So I'mma post it again.


As a Twitch main, I can say with certainty Twitch is nothing more than a product of The Meta right now.

You ask why he was less popular for a while? It's not the new model. Twitch was insanely popular in the 2013 Summer Split, but you did not nerf him out of popularity, the reason he faded was due to meta shifts.

First and foremost, twitch's largest weaknesses are high burst that he can't stealth away from, and enemy champions with quick harass patterns that can get in, do damage and get out before twitch can stack his poison and Contaminate for massive damage.

Near the end of the summer split, the assassin mid lane became very popular. While bad news for many ADCs, Twitch was one of the most affected, as he relies on his 850 range in teamfights to survive, and Ahri and Zed could close that distance instantly. Twitch was suddenly a lot less powerful.

Then, the Trinity Force rework happened. Suddenly burst ADCs like Corki and Lucian were not just viable but top-tier, and twitch's biggest weakness, early game burst lanes, became the standard bot lane. About this time, the high-burst Annie support also rose in popularity.

After Corki got nerfed, the bot lane meta shifted to Sivir/Jinx/and/Lucian ADCs and Thresh/Leona/Annie supports. Bot had become a deathlane that Twitch was not suited for.

About this time the tanky rushdown top meta was in full swing. This meta was bad for any ADC without an escape or movespeed steroid, Twitch among them.

Twitch does not thrive in this environment at all, and became one of the least picked ADCs at the time (barring Quinn and Urgot), sitting next to Miss Fortune and Kog'Maw in terms of popularity. (Also big 2013 champs that got ousted due to the meta.)

But meta is change. No meta lasts forever, and with the season 4 changes to snowballing, assassin mids fell out of flavor and building for late game suddenly became more preferable. This put carries back in the top lane instead of Mundo and Shyvana.

Another unexpected thing happened about that time too. Morgana took to support, weakening the bot lane all-in lanes, and Lulu and Soraka became popular in solo lanes, giving Twitch his much needed peel late game. This allows Twitch to operate at full capacity.

TL;DR: Twitch is strong in a meta that emphasizes peel and late game. He was weak for a long time because the meta emphasized burst and early game.

Please, leave Twitch alone. If you want him to have less of an impact, buff Tristana. Buff Kog'maw. Buff Vayne. Buff ADCs that should be as powerful as him late, but have been nerfed into uselessness, even in a meta that favors them.

Or nerf late game and buff early game so we can have a nice balance between Season 3's early game meta and Season 4's late game meta and Twitch will fall into place. Nerf Morgana support, Soraka top/mid and Lulu mid so "Protect the Doublelift" comps are less viable.

Shinjusuke6/5/2014, 7:23:57 AM16 votes

When you buff Tristana, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT BE IGNORANT OF AP TRIST.

AP Trist is a ridiculously low-to-no counterplay hypersnowballing safe 100-0 champion, who negates a few mids entirely (Swain anyone?) if she gets picked.

The last thing Trist needs are global buffs to the champion. When you buff her, make sure it gives no power to AP Trist. She does not need any more.

MarcusSnow6/5/2014, 5:32:55 AM14 votes

"Marksmen that we feel need some special lovin’"

No Urgot

Might as well delete him from the game if you guys are going to ignore him for this long

Angry Monster6/5/2014, 6:30:44 AM14 votes

still waiting on the promised tank jungle fixes. You know the ones that were promised 4 patches ago?

w4est6/5/2014, 5:09:57 AM10 votes

Would it be possible to look at ashe's passive? I feel that it is completely overshadowed late game, is only used <5 times early game, and caitlyn's passive does a better job in all terms of crits.

Could you make it so ashe gets 5%-15% crit against targets that are slowed? (So her second auto after slowing would have a increased crit?)

Or how about a 2%-5% increased damage to slowed targets?

Her current passive just doesn't fit thematically either, (other then her husbando tryndamere crits, but he's angry and undying with rage)

Please don't forget about everyone's iconic first marksman!

Poark Bally6/5/2014, 5:39:07 AM10 votes

Nerfing Lucian seems silly to me, while yes he is "Safe and Reliable" he is in no means a crazy ADC compared to other ADC's who can hyper carry. Considering he doesn't scale crazy unless he snowballs hard (which every champion can snowball out of control), he is probably one of the most balanced ADC's i've seen Riot make in a long time. I do agree that some of the other marksmans need loving too, but nerfing others down from where they stand instead of buffing the cast doesn't really help, it basically just makes the champion next to useless depending on the severity (COUGH Urgot ). As an ADC main, I feel that buffing some of the weaker ADC's is all you really need to do. There isn't a need to nerf down people who aren't in need of a nerf.

Jesus is Savior6/5/2014, 10:18:37 AM9 votes

Twitch is NOT over powered. Want to know why he rose in popularity? You gave expunge a range indicator. That's it. That's the ONLY thing that increased his power. He can now assassinate you when you're at the edge of the range, instead of going "oh crap, out of range... Oh well" like old Twitch.

He's basically less clunky and easier to play. You don't need 300+ games with him to be good anymore. But go ahead, ruin him. You already ruined the entire jungle. 75 upvotes and 10 pages later (and an email to Morello), and still no response: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4573173

Shineblow6/5/2014, 11:42:53 AM8 votes

Check Ezreal pls. He needs some love, especially his W. And yeah, decide Quinn's role. I think adc would be nice :>

The Great Crora6/5/2014, 11:19:52 AM8 votes

Riot, this is a pointless not Pro-Player post but i want to try to undestand Riot logic on balance changes.

Twitch like KogMaw was not too much played in competitive (NA/EU i don't follow other region).

You didn't change him.

But now you are trying to tell to the community that a low pick rate champ like he was secretely got buffed as hell and now he deseves a buff.

Riot maybe you should think on the recent changes you did to the game..

  1. oracle? GET OUT OF HERE.
  2. pinks? pff you can see them.
  3. heal? wow i have ghost and heal in one summoner yeeeeeee
  4. armor(RUNES)? WHO NEEDS THAT SH*T

Now Riot, as istated before this is apointless post, but nerfing Twitch is just an endless circle, you nerf him and you have lucian KogMaw every game. It's just the META not the actual strenght of the champion.

This was what a non professional player thought i'm not spreading hate, i just wanted to tell my opinion on your radar that needs repair. :D

Now talking about Twitch ! his VU destroyed one of the best feature his aspect had! the black cond0m he had on his nose was filled of std and now the plague rat lost all his disease! PLEASE BRING BACK ALL HIS POWER! cover his nose again XD

xdxAngeloxbx6/5/2014, 10:25:17 AM7 votes

Quinn is my favourite champion. What does Riot think about her? Should Quinn be an adc or toplane? She has a lot of bugs (Harrier proc) and her range is really low... please answer:) would love to hear your thoughts

Wasabo6/5/2014, 6:06:21 AM6 votes

Again they fUrgot

Also, I think KogMaw needs a little more utility. Something to escape gap closing champions, which weren't common when he was made. Maybe his Q or his E could stun the champ when it hits them. Also, what if his ult was more like Karthus Q where it does bonus damage to single units or like Kassadin Ult where it does bonus damage each cast?

RiotRiot Wav3Break6/7/2014, 12:12:30 AM4 votes

Hey guys, I just want to clarify some of our views on sensitive/gray area champions like Quinn and Urgot since there is a lot of lively discussion. Currently, we don't necessarily see these two champions fitting into the traditional marksman role and thus 4.10 will not have specific changes reflecting them. The scope of 4.10 has us incredibly focused on improving the health of traditional marksman role and we plan to deliver our best work regarding that focus. Discussion is always valuable to us though and we are grateful for all the feedback you guys provide us.

Hellioning6/5/2014, 4:41:51 AM4 votes

Any love for Koggles? I feel that his 'late game hyper carry' potential is being overshadowed by Vayne, who also has absurd late game damage plus an easier time of avoiding death via Assassin in exchange for a lower range (at 'death by assassin' is a lot more dangerous than 'can't get in range') and Jinx, who is simply absurd and has too much on her kit. Does Riot agree with this assessment?