In Reply to both Elias1724 and **My Waifu Vanilla **
Here is how I understand your arguments:
1 If zed manages to dodge Lulu's CC, he should be able to punch through the shields and heals. I.E. the 30% of lulu's kit which is HP donated to the carry, should be rendered irrelevant.
If zed connects 2 skills, whereas lulu only connects 2 skills, is it not fair that zed wins? But I do not think this is a fair comparison.
First of all, zed is designed around being able to 'delete' one of lulu's skills without losing damage. Therefore "dodging" the sheep should not be seen as lulu whiffing a skill, but rather as lulu trading skills 1 for 1 with the zed.
Secondly, while it is fair that Zed wins against lulu if she hits 3 skills and he hits 4, what about the ADC? we are ignoring the ADC's kit. If the ADC can connect 1 out of 4 skills, the situation should be even. therefore the 'fair' situation in this comparison is highly against the assassin.
Elias1724: lulu only gets 2 skills to fight Zed with? what is the justification?
2 The fight is usually engaged without the enemy ADC and Support involved. Therefore they are free to completely turn on the assassin. Since this is a usual situation, the assassin deserves to win 1v2.
It seems to be that this fight is engaged very poorly in the example. The ADC and support are able to 2v1 the enemy mid lane, and in addition to that the 3 remaining enemy players do not lose against the 4 players on the assassin's team.
From the other team's perspective this looks like a great fight: the enemy mid laner has to 2v1, while the 4 players on the other team including their other carry are zoned off the fight and are ineffective. It seems to me the ADC team's tanks have scored a major positional victory over the assassin's team, and should be rewarded with the enemy mid laner going down 'for free'.
Another way of looking at it, both enemy ADC and support are "zoned off" the fight, while the assassin's team gets to fight 4v3 with their other carry: A fight they should absolutely win as they have a major advantage in both DPS and utility, since the assassin is zoning 2 players.
In this scenario the assassin's team wins as long as the assassin is able to pin the enemy ADC and support. Which the assassin can easily do due to the major advantage in mobility he has. But if the assassin goes in to kill the enemy adc, _than that is a misplay on the assassin's part _and he deserves to be punished for his mistake, and not rewarded, as you would have it.
I think you don't see it this way. Is it because your idea of assassin game play is, "go in, get the kill, get out"? I think zoning, threatening, and letting your team do the job of winning is also a part of the game.
Another take on this scenario. one flank has your 4 men, against the enemy 3 men. The 4 should defeat the 3, and in a reasonable scenario this will happen. your second flank has a 1 man against 2. So this flank you think should also be at an advantage, due to the composition of "Assassin" vs "support+ADC"? i think, you commit a disadvantage in one flank, to gain an advantage in another, not commit to an advantage in one flank, to also have an advantage in another.
to conclude, in this argument around team composition and team fight dynamics, you are basically asking for the assassin to be OP. I think you already have a good win condition in this scenario and in actuality it is favorable to the assassin team despite your presentation, but it is not satisfying to you because you don't get to score kills and be the star ?
3 Assassins should be able to 1v2 the enemy support and ADC, because being a split pusher, as an assassin player , is not fun.
I can get behind this argument. I do think it has merit, that you pick a champion geared towards getting kills and PVP and get to win with PVP.
I am inclined to tentatively agree. That having a better presence in team fights, specifically as not an AOE backline "damage support", is something you should have....
...however in this situation the ADC also should get to shine, and shine more than the assassin. So you can't just get the "in team-fights, my job is to eliminate the enemy ADC" game-play. In this scenario your game play, as the assassin, should be "I will play carefully and wait for my opportunity and when it happens i can kill the ADC, but if i cant find my opportunity, I am actually on a timer and the enemy ADC gets to kill me".
I understand why this scenario is frustrating to you. you want to play a "strong, independent assassin" but in this scenario your opportunity depends on your team's tank; Also a player who should be shining more than you in this scenario.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DseT6KT2sPg/UShFp0wfidI/AAAAAAAAADc/bXxj3nztE0w/s320/independent+woman.jpg
4 ADCs should be careful with their positioning and punished when they miss step. Agreed, but what actually counts as a miss step? For the most parts, team fights should happen within the skill ranges of champions. The ADC has range, but not enough range to out range your jump skills or the damage skills of any mage. The ADC has just enough skill, to only be exposed to the skill range of 1-2 opponents, IF his team is successful in screening for him.
Therefore to say, the ADC has to stay out of your range, is not fair for the ADC. He should be able to fight you, and therefore he should be able to enter your threat range and come up on top. So what is a miss step from the ADC? This requires a better and more well defined definition.
5 I think both of you have this underlying idea: assassins are a counter class to ADC. therefore should get to kill ADCs. In general LOL doesn't really allow "counters" and that is why you are not allowed, as an assassin, to go ham on lane opponent when hits 6 and get fed solo in lane VS a mage (assassins are nerfed when that happens).
The ADC is special in that respect, because it is actually 'countered' by many classes in the game and that is by design. But the ADC's high point is, that the assassin class being the ADC's counter should only extends to when the ADC is not supported. The ADC's high point is that, when she is properly supported, she is queen.
You do not agree? why?
I think the better solution is to move supports away from being a point-defense class. Give them other things to do, more incentive to go on the attack or to commit their skills for their jungler or tank, or give tanks more ways to disable the supports during an engage.
The moment you are going to see more Bards, more Brands, more Leonas, as supports, your life as an assassin will improve considerably.
Or change their items to items that are better at supporting proactivity, rather than adding "shield+heal powa" to everything a support is able to purchase.
P.S. downtime between shields sounds like a good idea.