A change that we would all enjoy

KT Bullet·Aug 4, 2015·150 votes·9,877 views

Hi there boards! Now be gentle as this is my first idea or general concept of a game change that I think would help aid and or balance out a champion a little more.

The Champion in context is : Annie

Q : What change am I proposing, and why am I making it/discussing it.

A : Well the change is to her ultimate (Tibbers). Where she is able instantly cast a AOE Spell 600 units from her that does 425 ap damage and 80% of her total ap. As well if her passive is at 4 stacks it is now a AOE stun that does that total amount of damage to all the targets hit.

Now the reason why I want to change this ability is because I find it doesn't really have any counter play at least in the early game.

WAIT Before you all get your pitchforks out and down-vote me to H**L. Hear me out for a second, now I know a whole bunch of you are going to say "Just buy QSS or a banshee's veil" Now while I do agree this does counter her ultimate fairly well and most of her damage. I also think that being forced to itemize 1 item to counter play 1 champ as a champion is pretty lame. Especially when you are playing a low hp jungler/mid/adc/support. I won't add top lane since most top lane champions can survive annie's burst.

Now the change I'm proposing, is the same thing as to what you have done for teemo. Literally 99% the same.

As you can see in this gif http://i.gyazo.com/43a9189e017dff1f709578303e9636c5.gif

And this youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vitUUTYJXu4

Basically the concept is that instead of tibbers just blowing you up and your team. Lets add a little more counter play to it as well as give Annie a nice little buff. Lets make it so she has to throw her stuff bear tibbers, and as soon as it lands it explodes into the monstrous champion eating teemo bear that we all know and love.

Now with this change I also think that the range of which she is able to throw it should be increased in the early levels. So that way it gives her some more power, but also allows you to go "OMG Flash, hourglass...etc"

If you guys have any feedback or your own suggestions you would like to leave I would love to hear it!

Also I have heard of the concept of making her passive stacks slowly decrease over time, I personally don't believe that is a fair balance change. Because you are basically cutting one of her rolls. She couldn't be played as a support as well.... >.> At least thats what I think.

EDIT----------------------------------

A lot of people are assuming that this is just to gut her. It is not.
If she did have to throw tibbers, of course we would increase the total range early and late to compensate for the time it takes for it to be thrown.
I also believe that the distance of which the tibbers is thrown should also change the time of how long it takes for the whole animation to occur.

Example. Say she throws it 100 units away from her. Total cast time of animation to tibbers exploding and doing damage is like 0.8 seconds.

Where if she throws it like 700 units away it takes like 1.5 seconds for the total cast time of the animation to the damage occuring.

Again, obviously this would need more tweaking like what distance she can throw and the damage. But I believe that this idea is one of the better ones for annie! Lets make it happen!

Any more idea's or thoughts?

EDIT 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------

I love the feedback you guys are awesome!
It would be really cool if a rioter replied with his/her thoughts on the idea. Like this is legitimate change, that not only the community but a few players whom play annie would like to see occur!
If anyone could forward this to someone like anniebot! Or get it more noticed that would be awesome!

Lets see if we can make a change for the better with annie!

123 Comments

Troll for TrumpAug 4, 201569 votes

So, like how she threw out tibbers in a Twist of Fate animation? :D https://nygamecritics.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/giphy-6.gif

HighH1Aug 4, 20152 votes

THIS

Frost HellfireAug 4, 20152 votes

Purrfect.

General KeithAug 4, 20155 votes

Tibbers, I choose you!

dustinhihi2Aug 4, 201522 votes

This, is one of the best idea's ive read in a while... lol

RIP Tahm KenchAug 4, 20159 votes

I don't really see how different it is from all of those "give Annie ult an animation/travel time!" that get down voted to hell aside from the increased range compensation.

It's more long winded I guess.

Vistha KaiAug 4, 20154 votes

Downvoted by who?

FadedpfAug 4, 201516 votes

Same mechanics as new teemo shrooms?

Yosuke ApperuAug 4, 20155 votes

Then she can throw another tibbers at that tibbers and it bounces :D

Tilt Thru TimeAug 4, 20151 votes

I'm just picturing a lulu walking past a bush when 5 flaming bears landing on her.

WheatloafAug 4, 201511 votes

What if Annie jumped on Tibbers as she threw him, riding him for his 30-second lifespan, and all of her abilities functioned similarly to what they did with her E for the duration? Practical? Not really. Entertaining? Do I really nee to say anything beyond "a little girl riding a flaming teddy bear"?

ÑapoleoniAug 4, 20159 votes

Undodgeable stuns are undodgeable by everyone. Adding a dodge mechanic to a stun provides one less counter to mobile champions, one of the main forces of toxicity in league of legends. I'm not saying this is a bad fix, but doing this is basically pulling a Veigar on Annie, and both of the champions do essentially the same thing.

ZerglingOneAug 4, 20157 votes

They did it to Corki's phosphorus bomb. Greatly increased its range, gave it a slow projectile.

ShosukoAug 4, 20154 votes

Then annie will simply lead with flash w instead of flash r, and then r on your face anyway :\

Also - while there is an argument about the limits of what you should do to counter a champion, buying a single defensive item which counters a type of play is not one of them. If you are against a champion with hard cc and burst, buying a qss or bveil is natural. This is not just annie that is covered by these two items, but many champions. I bought a QSS against Teemo as Master Yi the other day and it turned the game back around to not be blinded while cleaning up the fight.

Any player should be putting an item into a defensive slot anyway, and mages have it easier than most with chalice, RoA, and Abyssal to build into...

KoddaAug 5, 20151 votes

But flash w still means she has to be super close to the whole enemy team, cause you know, its like half the range of tibbers... This'll give time for the enemy to see that she is way to close for comfort and either engage or pick her off.

Ikrit122Aug 4, 20152 votes

I was actually just thinking the same thing. There aren't many aoe stuns that appear instantly the same way Annie's does.

Mr CometAug 4, 20152 votes

Annie is right now I find is so buggy for me, whenever I flash away at the same time she ultra me, I still flash but I get dealt 600 dog and stunned, basically killing me. This can also happen on champs like hi when he q's

Sire HippingtonAug 4, 20151 votes

It's the same likem flashing out off melee range and still dieing to an AA right after, as AAs(and spells) probably first chek if they hit and then apply the damage a fraction of a second later...

HellioningAug 4, 20152 votes

If you remove her ability to insta-burst you from 100%...what does she have left? Already, if you have BV or dodge her stunbear she is basically useless. No amount of increased range is going to make up for that nerf, unless you get to the point where it's solar flare.

GhostOfShrimpmasAug 4, 201519 votes

Are you aware of why someone being able to instantly burst you from 100%-0 with no skillshots or travel times is a bad thing for the game?

HellioningAug 4, 20156 votes

Are you aware that that is the only thing she has going for her as a mage?

Yes, yes, we need everything to have 'counterplay' and apparently 'time her flash' isn't enough, but if you're going to remove the insta-bear, you're gonna need to do more than just increase the range on it. She can still just flash-W and then ult and we're back to the same problem. She's going to need a rework if you think that her ability to insta burst you from 100% with no skillshots or travel times is a problem.

Also; why is her ability to burst you okay but not, say, LB or Ahri or Zed? Is it because they MIGHT miss when they dash directly into your face?

FrnakAug 4, 20157 votes

If you notice, the majority of old champs are losing their targeted spells. Ryze. Zilean. Etc. Do you remember the issue RYZE had? Get next to minion wave, ult, instagib someone. That's all he had. "BUT IF UR TAEK DAT DEN HE IS R NO GOOD".

She'll be compensated for range or high AP ratios if it has travel time, longer stun, something.

---> When a champ literally is worthless without having stun/ult/flash ready that's not really fun to PLAY (for most people) or play AGAINST (inability to react). She's likely to be "reworked".

She's not an assassin. LB, Ahri, and Zed ARE Assassins.

edit: Assassins---> Go in, kill one (or use reset and mop up), get out. Wait for new opportunities. Annie has no disengage OR gapcloser, as all 3 you just mentioned, albeit Ahri is dependent on Ult.

AltricadAug 4, 20153 votes

Also, Lb Ahri and Zed have SKILLSHOT CC. Annie's cc involves your opponent being in 600 range

ChatillonAug 6, 20151 votes

still...annies still manage to whiff the bear

gaby1bestAug 4, 20153 votes

Q has a travel time. You being in her range means you're doing it wrong.

ChatillonAug 4, 20154 votes

Give Annie the respect she deserves. Just dont go within flash tibbers range and she is useless

Celeste BenalAug 4, 20155 votes

Flash+Tibbers = 600+425 = 1025. Sounds like a good idea. I'll just let a mage zone me like an ADC.

Davy CrockettAug 4, 20151 votes

Veigar Let me show you the definition of PAIN!

GhostOfShrimpmasAug 5, 20151 votes

Did you know that he only has one ability that can't miss?

ThryaleAug 4, 20155 votes

she'll still have her instant stun with her W, but to get it, she needs to actually put herself at risk, which is good. High risk for high reward.

HellioningAug 4, 20152 votes

Is an extra 250 range 'at risk'? I'm legitimately curious here, I wouldn't think there's much of a difference.

OshGoshBoGoshAug 4, 20152 votes

it def should show her throw her teddy bear... or show like a Snorlax falling from the sky like in smash bros. Annie

FlemmanAug 4, 20152 votes

as it's a living thing, I would also add a special case for tibber that he is not stop by yasuo or braum wall

LuciferAug 4, 20152 votes

If they do this, she needs some pretty heavy buffs to compensate, which wasn't the case with Teemo. People forget that Annie gives up mobility for her reliability. If you take her reliability away, there's not much reason to pick her. Her insta stun is also one of the best ways to deal with that whore of a champion, Kalista.

Soda PopkillskiAug 5, 20151 votes

Except atm annie is one of the most oeverpowered champs in the game. So the buffs should only be minor.

And she still has her point and click Q, so she still counters mobility.

LuciferAug 5, 20151 votes

Uh, according to who? She is rarely, if ever picked in competitive play, and she's not a highly contested pick mid lane either. She's normally picked as a support now. Annie has some glaring weaknesses once you get passed gold / silver elo. It's easy to jump on the "NERF ANNIE OVERPOWERED!!!!" hype train, but her stats simply don't support that she's "one of the most overpowered champions in the game."

Tactical SeppukuAug 4, 20152 votes

Don't hate me, but I changed the upvotes on this from 69 to 70.

ThePlasticSporkAug 4, 20152 votes

I might accept this if Kalista gets deleted, because Annie is one of the only feasible supports that stops her silliness.

More seriously, I don't really think this is the best change to make. You would have to buff Tibbers or the rest of her kit in such an insane way to compensate for the loss of reliability, in much the same way that Veigar's reworked kit needed an absurd number of buffs to become somewhat effective again.

I think a better idea is to make it so she can't hold her stun permanently. This gives more, er, "windows of opportunity", because once she has her stun up she only has so long to make a play with it. If you see her with her stun, you aren't permanently zoned, and it gives good counterplay to Tibbers because of her limited engagement range without flash.

Livid BiscuitAug 4, 20152 votes

This sounds like a good idea to me. Not to mention, she actually throws Tibbers in one of the Cinematics, which I found pretty cool. For context: https://youtu.be/tEnsqpThaFg?t=202

iainB85Aug 4, 20152 votes

Been suggested a million times.

Really hope Riot does it.

KayleeTAug 4, 20152 votes

Lmao fuck that I'll just flash W instead, same thing but with no delay and smaller range, then drop all my damage on your head

IRicochet RunnerAug 4, 20151 votes

Yea but it will be so easy to counter, you will have to increase her range on tibbers then. Also banshees is pretty good against her item 3102 and item 3156

KT BulletAug 4, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=IRicochet Runner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp78mEiO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-04T02:54:28.676+0000)

Yea but it will be so easy to counter, you will have to increase her range on tibbers then. Also banshees is pretty good against her and

If you read the end of the post, I suggested that we change the range to make it longer at the early levels and see how it plays out :) But you are correct those are hard hitting counter play items but late game only. You don't see ahri mid rushing a veil 2nd item lol.

IRicochet RunnerAug 4, 20151 votes

Well it's the same for mostly all the other assassins you really need an item or 2 to counter them.

FrnakAug 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=IRicochet Runner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zp78mEiO,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2015-08-04T04:57:05.364+0000)

Well it's the same for mostly all the other assassins you really need an item or 2 to counter them.

Annie ---> Assassin

ThryaleAug 4, 20153 votes

no, annie is a burst mage, to be an assassin you need to have a large chunk of mobility

IRicochet RunnerAug 5, 20151 votes

Well she seems like a fizz to me.

The IllithidAug 4, 20151 votes

If you change Annie's ult, then all the super mobile champs will have literally nothing to fear from her and personally, I think that is way worse than someone having to itemize against an opponent.