Is Climbing actually Impossible?

NutJ0b·Apr 20, 2019·18 votes·11,822 views

So I've only been playing league for a year or so and I've noticed that climbing is becoming increasingly difficult. For example I've won 4 out of my 5 past games and have only gained 35lp. I don't know if this is normal but because my mmr is so low since I didn't have the best start to the season the game has become more tedious and climbing is almost impossible. I went on a huge win streak a while a go and and managed to climb one sub-rank however i lost 3 games in a row and dropped straight back down. This fluctuation has happened so often this season. I feel I have improved significantly however I cant show this with my rank because the start of my season was bad and now my mmr is basically in the shitter. I feel that a way around this for Riot is to maybe reset the mmr every month or so to a normal state and make it easier to climb or to drop. This would at least make the suffering last one month rather than an entire season.

If anyone has the same issue (as I'm sure there are) please post in here I'd love for Riot to get around this.

38 Comments

Tin ObliteratesApr 20, 201912 votes

I'd say it's more frustrating than anything.

Get Ogre HereApr 20, 20195 votes

Sir SaltarinApr 20, 20194 votes

HopeStartsWithUApr 20, 20194 votes

Obviously, it is possible. If you followed the challenge between Yassuo and Tyler1 you can clearly see that better players WILL climb, no matter what. Ofc it feels awful especially with the majority of soloq players. But that's the difference between someone who definitly plays better than other and someone who isn't consistent in his games: Winning the game even when with several apes in your team. You always gotta think: If the majority of your team is full of apes then the majority of the enemies team should also be full of apes (assuming matchmaking doesn't fuck you over and over, most of the time it won't)

hiyaresApr 20, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Obviously, it is possible. If you followed the challenge between Yassuo and Tyler1 you can clearly see that better players WILL climb, no matter what. Ofc it feels awful especially with the majority of soloq players. But that's the difference between someone who definitly plays better than other and someone who isn't consistent in his games: Winning the game even when with several apes in your team. You always gotta think: If the majority of your team is full of apes then the majority of the enemies team should also be full of apes (assuming matchmaking doesn't fuck you over and over, most of the time it won't)

the only issue i have with that is its not in relation to the average player sitting at silver-gold give or take. they are at the higher end of the ladder and also play league for a living so yeah its kind of true. You need to think about the average player and how it feels to be in a "Fair" match. I stopped playing ranked because it just felt like i wasnt learning anything anymore in my elo yeah i learned my lane but i main tanks which is difficult to carry teams with. Think about it from the veiw of someone who isnt smurfing the skill gap is much smaller between teams and the thought process of how the game is supposed to be played. It honestly feels like a slot machine playing ranked sometimes you wil lgo in and in 10 mins your team loses every lane and your just sitting there like well fuck me. and other times you have the bot lane somehow just take 3 towers in 15 mins but then never leave the lane and feed.

HopeStartsWithUApr 20, 20194 votes

Matchmaking is indeed fucked up. Especially this season, for whatever reason. Honestly, the game is just a big ass grind. Riot won't change that and it's annoying. But that part of the game is what makes the difference between a "hardcore" player and a casual.

Also some games doesn't feel fair because some people just want to carry which leads to major mistakes. They won't let the fed toplaner/midlaner carry so they proceed to make desperate plays that fail badly and they keep on inting. People are too stubborn most of the time which ruins the game for other players.

hiyaresApr 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Matchmaking is indeed fucked up. Especially this season, for whatever reason. Honestly, the game is just a big ass grind. Riot won't change that and it's annoying. But that part of the game is what makes the difference between a "hardcore" player and a casual.

Also some games doesn't feel fair because some people just want to carry which leads to major mistakes. They won't let the fed toplaner/midlaner carry so they proceed to make desperate plays that fail badly and they keep on inting. People are too stubborn most of the time which ruins the game for other players.

Ohh i completely agree with you thats just how it is and it makes the game frustrating to deal with. so then comes in most players that climb and why they had to reset higher elos was because it wasn't about how good you were it was about how many games are you playing a day

HopeStartsWithUApr 20, 20191 votes

Yep, exactly. Well, some are prodigies and reach dia in less than 100 games :P

letsfeedtogetherApr 20, 20191 votes

I dont think t1 and yassuo is a good exemple. T1 had a ton of trollers following him

AnotherFeederApr 21, 20191 votes

He's also rly bad at league.

HopeStartsWithUApr 21, 20191 votes

True, but I doubt that the majority of the games were that easy, yet again there are other streamers doing stuff like that. Yassuo and T1 were pretty recently so I just took them since pretty much anyone will know what I mean by that :P

Haze97Apr 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Matchmaking is indeed fucked up. Especially this season, for whatever reason. Honestly, the game is just a big ass grind. Riot won't change that and it's annoying. But that part of the game is what makes the difference between a "hardcore" player and a casual.

Also some games doesn't feel fair because some people just want to carry which leads to major mistakes. They won't let the fed toplaner/midlaner carry so they proceed to make desperate plays that fail badly and they keep on inting. People are too stubborn most of the time which ruins the game for other players.

Had this in my last match on an account which is currently bronze II. My mid lane LeBlanc would keep rushing in to make LCS style plays and feed the opponent Yasuo every single time.

I couldn't carry the match despite playing it as Jax, taking over 4 turrets by myself, hard winning my own lane, and ending the match with the highest cs in the match along with a kda of 13/8. Apart from me and our Ezreal ADC everyone had been feeding their asses of, wouldn't want to baron after our single ace, and everybody wanted to make LCS level plays only to end up feeding further.

Needless to say people need to learn to get carried. This isn't the only match which I've lost. I've had other matches where my attempts to spread my lead have failed because morons don't think twice before all in'ing opponents two levels above them in desperate attempts to come out on top.

HopeStartsWithUApr 21, 20191 votes

Honestly, this is the sole reason why climbing is hard. Not gonna lie sometimes I do that desperate stuff too but mostly it's just from randoms in soloq. Pretty sad actually, many don't realise that.

AnotherFeederApr 21, 20191 votes

If ur a player of average skill level, silver/gold is the average players elo. So ur not suppose be climbing. The reason smurfs climb is becauese theyre better than the elo they are climbing in, so thats kinda the point if ranked. Ur suppose to get better b4 u start to climb.

IllabetheApr 21, 20192 votes

Or....... they are marginally better players who are playing CHAMPIONS who carry them. These streamers NEVER play nonsolo-carry champions. They play reset champions, ones that time well with Electrocute every 25 seconds like Zed, etc. They never deviate.

I'd love to see Yassuo climb as Evelynn, Ornn, or Teemo...... a champ that lives within some specific set of rules as to where they can go, how impactful they can be on one fight, and who have obvious weaknesses that even new players can exploit.

HopeStartsWithUApr 21, 20191 votes

But... there is a Garen main in masters. Evelynn mains probably even higher. I don't exclude one tricks because one tricking still requires strong macro plays, especially on champs that are not meta.

IllabetheApr 21, 20191 votes

Being in masters and climbing to masters on those champions are universally different things.

P.S. Garen is a Tyrant in low Elo. Bad example.

The only reason Masters has any Evelynns at all is because at that elo, teams know how to work around her and serve her. She is NOT a carrying champion, but a carryable champion. You can be the smartest Evelynn player in the game, and only pull 50% with her in Silver, simply because she lacks the mobility and team responsiveness there to be effective.

HopeStartsWithUApr 21, 20191 votes

Bad example? It's about someone making it to the top with any champion. Garen is a good example because Garen is useless af in high elo. Yet someone made it work. Same goes for Heimerdinger mains, Eve mains etc etc. Anyway that isn't the point of my post or a post about which champ will get you to the top.

ShahamutApr 21, 20191 votes

I mean... I just finished playing Skarner toplane to plat... my new highest rank. I'm not 100% convinced yet, but I'm starting to believe the challenger players who say, "you can reach D4 playing ANYTHING. It's not your champion holding you back."

HopeStartsWithUApr 21, 20191 votes

I know that. But the guy I am talking to is 100% convinced that his champs are insanely hard to play and you gotta be a 1 in a million to reach high elo with them. Champs are not holding you back and it is a fact. But can't discuss with everyone here on the boards. Now the moment those people see me playing Riven it's "Oh. A riven player his opinion is biased." even when the discussion doesn't have to do anything with Riven.

Let's say I am a lurker and don't comment much but read a lot here lol.

I am still convinced that Leona is a hidden gem in the jungle.

ShahamutApr 22, 20191 votes

Leo jungle <3

Starcraft243verApr 20, 20194 votes

I read Somewhere that you reach your true rank After 50-100 games, so resetting the matchmaking ranking every Month is truly a terrible Idea.

DisembarkApr 21, 20192 votes

Lol. People don’t realize that the new ranked placements are “why” get “uneven” matches. I’ve seen gold 2 players from last season go 0-10 in their placements and sit at silver 2, while still having a gold 2 MMR.

Whereas if you go 10-0 as a gold 3 (or 8-0 with positional) you’d shoot straight to like gold 2 or gold 1, while still having a gold 2 MMR.

So suddenly you have matches with a gold 1 player and a 100% win rate “silver 2” player with a “0% win rate”. When in realize you realize if they lost/won 10 games last season while playing, they’d be around the same rank.

The new rank system has made MMR so different from rank that it’s insane. I’ve never seeen this level of disparity between actual rank and “MMR rank” in any season.

If they full reset the MMR every month or season, shit would probably get worse.

SirPurrrApr 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I read Somewhere that you reach your true rank After 50-100 games, so resetting the matchmaking ranking every Month is truly a terrible Idea.

50-100 from unranked? No way... unless you're good at smurfing (which is a skill in itself more than just your skill at the game). In my case, I've found 100 games gets me to the tier I belong in and then another 50 or so gets me somewhat close to the division I expect. Of course, how well you coinflip can affect this quite a bit in either direction.

200 games of your main role and champions is pretty accurate most times. What ruins me is that after a bad streak of games when I'm tryharding and getting horrible teams, I then lose energy and mental in future games. Thus, I start losing games I shouldn't normally (either that day or soon after). This can drastically slow your climb and even make you drop divisions.

SaiannaApr 20, 20192 votes

Oh sure climbing is possible. The thing is, it's not that you'll be climbing using your skills and experience but RNG will do the climbing for you using whatever coin flip mechanics it has to provide utmost fair (for 1, winning, team) game.

GlaricionApr 21, 20192 votes

Climbing this season does seem a lot harder and games more one-sided.

Season 3, 4, and 8 I have gotten into gold with fewer games than I have now, might be something to do w/ the rank redistribution.

Try to be more focused in which lane you are playing as the more used to a lane you are the easier it is to improve even faster than before and take advantage of the few games where you can actually make a difference (went from ping-ponging from S2/S3 playing multiple roles to bouncing between S1 and S2 by focusing only on one role despite having a similar champion pool).

mack9112Apr 20, 20191 votes

At the end of the day a lot of people have been playing this game for a very long time such as myself for almost 6 years. If you want to climb you have to be very good and sad to say one year isn’t gonna cut the mustard .

MysticShakerApr 21, 20191 votes

Just played promo. Our premade bot consist of ryze and lulu. They ended up 2/19. My jungler called them morons and wished them irl death. I usually report this kind of behavior but this time I didn't. I honored him. It's possible to climb but it takes way more time than it used to be. If you have enough time for grind and you are good enoigh you will actually climb. But it will take you more matches.

Sir SaltarinApr 21, 20193 votes

Don't play Mage botlanes, only villains do that.

MysticShakerApr 21, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zEnYrZKa,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-04-21T02:12:07.334+0000)

Don't play Mage botlanes, only villains do that.

I didn't lol. The premade played it.

5050BSApr 21, 20191 votes

So Riot wants all players to have a 50% win rate. If you are winning more then that it does two things.

Changes your MMR and puts bad players on your team. It keeps doing this until you start losing and brings you back down to 50% win rate.

Issue is that your MMR changes SLOOOOWWWWWLLLLLYYYY.

Once its If your MMR is higher then the rank you are in, Riot gives you more LP for wins then losses to push you to the Rank of your MMR

If you MMR is lower then the rank you are in it gives you less LP for wins the losses.

The bad part is that your MMR changes SLLOOOOOWWWWWLLLLYYY. The only time it does not is when it is a fresh account.

You can (and a TON of players in S9 have this) get where you will have to win 2-3 games to counter the LP loss of ONE game.

That means you need a 70%+ win rate JUST to hold your rank

But Remember Riot wants everyone to have a 50% win rate so it will constantly stack your team with shit and or the enemy team with WAY better players to make you NOT have a 70% win rate and you will fall.

This is where you are hard stuck.

Having a Positive win rate but not climbing because Riot thinks this is a good system.

FioraWillCarryApr 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If you MMR is lower then the rank you are in it gives you less LP for wins the losses.

Ummm. No. MMR is changes according to relative skill difference between two opposing sides. A large skill difference means a large change, a small skill difference means a small change.

What is slow is to change is the relationship between MMR and rank, which is where LP gains and losses are expressed.

A Chaotic MindApr 21, 20191 votes

bro you have a 45% winrate, it's supposed you can't climb with that winrate

Power CosmicApr 21, 20191 votes

I honestly think picks accounts to climb and it only very very partially has to do with play.

EATARIApr 21, 20191 votes

I have no problem climbing. To be fair though, I was placed Bronze IV, so I shouldn’t have an issue getting to Silver before the split ends at my current rate.

XJ99999999999999Apr 21, 20191 votes

spam rek/sai hecarim

Serika ZeroApr 21, 20191 votes

Riot made it easier to climb. Now instead of 5 subdivisions, there's only 4. Meaning, its much easier to get from silver to gold, from gold to plat, etc.

And while I don't know about gold and above, they also made promo games much easier, now if you fail a promo (including from silver 1 to gold 4), you will get an automatic "win" set for your account the next time you reach that promo, so that you only need 1 or 2 wins to promote.

.................... I'm gold 4 with a 48% win rate lol. Fair enough, I didn't play my best picks (talon and eve). And fair enough, Diana is quite underwhelming the the current meta (And I also forgot how to carry with her, and I played a bunch of games right after patch release, and I'm getting serious lag spikes during that time frame, more than usual). And fair enough, I did have some afk-ers and literally inters in some games. But I also "inted" in a few games while playing Diana, so, it makes sense that I'll get games where I play poorly, and some where my team plays poorly.

But "ranking up", at least for gold and below, it was never easier than this. Actually, even for masters and below. Since there's only 4 sub divisions.

IShowerWithUrDadApr 21, 20191 votes

I tok a look at your op.gg and I believe you often get tilted, which would explain your win paterns. You play multiple aggressive bruisers and get kills, which allows you to carry the majority of your games. However, you seem to also go on losing streaks. I do know how frustrating it is when a teamate ruins your lead(it happens seemingly everytime), and this is probably what causes you to play poorly aftter such a loss. You should try playing ARAM after a loss, just to chill a bit, as the stakes are lower.