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The State of Jax, Xin, etc and Guinsoo's Rageblade

Tartarrsauce··28 votes·4,745 views

I'm not sure what is more fun. Getting rolled by a Jax that can one shot anyone on your team under tower, or a Xin that can solo Baron. Or maybe a Kayle that can one shot your ADC and kill your tank in one Q-3AA combo. Once any hybrid champion gets Guinsoo's that person's opponent has to farm under tower the rest of the game. Jax is especially bad about this. Losing two towers in the span of less than a minute should not be a thing in any game with only one person doing the pushing, especially League of Legends. These item changes have made playing most lanes miserable and I feel like something needs to be done. Either to base damage of the champions, or to the item itself. I know some people will disagree and call me bad or whatever, but there is almost no counter play other than grouping to stop the push, but even then you will lose other objectives because you had to send so many people to the lane that these champs are pushing — either that or ffing at 20. No reason why a Jax, Xin, Kayle etc. should be able to 3 shot a full tank at level 11.

28 Comments

Han Chuljoon13 votes

OP is trolling tbh

Nobody even picks Jax now

OGN showed it

Tartarrsauce1 votes

It seems CLG had good results using Jax in NA LCS.

FalconPawwwwnch11 votes

Yea, OP is trolling

Nobody is buying guinsoo's or picking/banning Jax on streams, his ban rate and win rates are falling daily in favor of actual broken champs like Mundo and Tahm Kench

In OGN nobody is even hovering over him

Stay bronze

Shrek Luigi3 votes

Irelia is by no means underpowered, and makes excellent use of it after she has a gunblade up.

I agree though, especially the point about TK/Mundo. Jax had a surge in popularity during 5.23 but otherwise he's been backbenched completely by the Champs favored in the current meta.

ModKnightsKemplar6 votes

I dunno... based on win rates, I don't know that I think the item is terribly op.

I know it feels that way, but it seems to only go that way once those champs are ALREADY fed. They seem okay to me, looking at what few numbers I have available, and I can think of many games where I had one on my team and they weren't very effective.

Daxanater6 votes

Honestly it's really just Jax for me. Just his kit works so well with rage he will destroy you in any lane.

Masala Chai3 votes

Twitch Quadra! Not even sated Devourer Jax comes at me with Hextech and shit, I'm full health and am and item and a half from full build at 35 minutes! Guess what happens! I DIE!

masterdragon4814 votes

With specific regards to Jax, League of Legends has NEVER had a period of time where rageblade is strong (and subsequently where gunblade suddenly becomes a good pickup). This has caused Jax's ap rations to run higher than they really need to be as previously trinity force would be pretty much the only ap that he built. Now, I definitely agree, its a bit of an issue because of how much cost effective ap he has access to. He really needs some ap nerfs.

Aside from that rant, I don't think straight nerfing rageblade is a good idea. The item actually falls off in terms of what it gives you as the game goes on longer; it serves one purpose and provides no sustain or defense at all whatsoever. Its kinda like an ie. That isn't to say that it isn't still good, but it really shines in the early/mid game, as a first or a second item.

Nerfing it overall would take it out of viability again, and as an item that provides 64% as, 54 ad and 72 ap, rageblade isn't really that good a late game item. But as a first buy, its a MASSIVE increase in the stats of the champion. The attack speed, the AD, the AP all cause major stat boots to the user at a time when champs don't have a lot of gold. So, I would really like to see the value of the bonus's from rageblade scale with player level over the course of the game. This way, rageblade is a viable set of stats when it is bought, but it isn't nearly as cost efficient as it is now (at least early).

For example, perhaps if you buy it around level 1 (I know you can't but just go with it), maybe it gives a max of 20% attack speed, 10 ad, and 14 ap but by level 18 hits 70% attack speed, 65 ad, and 85 ap. This way, the item isn't just a ball of stats that beats out the opponent in the early game but it retains some late game power.

I would also considering nerfing the aoe part of the item somewhat; it is very strong.

DarthSpectrum4 votes

Guinsoo's Rageblade isn't a problem.

I have mained Jax since season 4, and frankly he has always been this strong late game if played currently. Guinsoo's just allowed him to hit his potential earlier. Jax, Kayle, and Xin are on-hit, late game monsters. Most champions can't fight them 1 v 1 after ~30 minutes with or without Guinsoo's.

I am not denying that it is extremely frustrating to deal with champions with Guinsoo's. Once they hit their spikes, they are incredibly hard to shut down. However, that doesn't mean that players are entirely powerless against them. Jax for one is terrible in lane. Mediocre base stats, high CD on his abilities, and considerable mana costs. Unless you are playing Yasuo or Xin, it is actually incredibly difficult to lose lane to Jax without being outplayed. Jax is vulnerable to poke and lacks sustain in lane. You need to exploit his weakness to secure a lead and put pressure on the map before Jax can get his core items.

Likewise, Kayle and Xin do not perform spectacularly in lane either. Kayle is good against melee champions, but she is pretty squishy. Xin can cheese his opponent level 1 or 2, but he relies on his items to dish out good damage.

Just take a look at their win rates. They are actually at the lower half of the champion roster. Yes, they are OP in certain situations, but to get to these situations it will take either skill on their part, or mistakes on yours.

Consider it like this. If you go even against Jax in lane, but he come back and kill you with Guinsoo's, had you went against someone else such as Renekton instead, the difference in skill level would mean that you would have already died in lane.

If you really have problem with Guinsoo's Rageblade users, consider picking early game champions to shut them down.

tommyagun3 votes

Another problem is tank champs building pretty much straight tank stats and able to do a lot of damage.

masterdragon4813 votes

I'd like examples please, because on the whole that isn't a huge problem; I can think of only one thing that is outside of champion kits that would be doing this. So if you mention what tanks are doing this, I'd be glad to talk about it.

tommyagun1 votes

{quoted}

I'd like examples please, because on the whole that isn't a huge problem; I can think of only one thing that is outside of champion kits that would be doing this. So if you mention what tanks are doing this, I'd be glad to talk about it.

Any juggernaut, malphite, tahm, even taric. They can just build tank items and are able to dish out loads of damage.

masterdragon4812 votes

Well, first of all, juggernauts are suppose to deal damage, so I'll leave them out of my response since you didn't mention any specifically. I sorta agree with your opinion in regards to some juggernauts/parts of some of their kits, but I'll stick to the champs you mentioned.

Tahm has been an issue for a while and has durability and damage nerfs on the pbe (not his W but his passive R).

Malphite and Taric have have a unique scaling in that they scale off of armor, so the fact that they gain damage while building tanky is actually very much intended. While I would agree that malphite is a little overboard atm (mostly due to the attack speed debuff on his E), I think taric is in a fine spot; he isn't really going to be solo carrying a game any time soon.

BiggestNoob3ver3 votes

To be fair, to work they have to be able to not be just ignored, and have some level of kill threat. Especially when they lack the safety of range. It'd be a problem if they did no damage because just living isn't going to contribute to ending the game. Clearly they aren't dominant otherwise people would just run 5 tanky dudes.

tommyagun1 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, to work they have to be able to not be just ignored, and have some level of kill threat. Especially when they lack the safety of range. It'd be a problem if they did no damage because just living isn't going to contribute to ending the game. Clearly they aren't dominant otherwise people would just run 5 tanky dudes.

Remember the juggernaut patch, you can still do a team full of tanks and win and still dish out damage. You don't really see that though because there are other champs that are very strong right now like mf who take their light.

PhantomGG3 votes

I feel the champion themselves need a rework, visiting, for both xin, jax and kayle are always in this state where they are either ridic OP, or just playing useless, a champion who has no middle ground, in my opinion is a baddly designed champion, FIORA got a complete rework because of it. (this is a debate for another day if you feel it worked)

back to the point, a champion should always be able to find a middle ground in terms of balance, looking back st season three jax was the most op contested pick then season four he was ok, but nothing special then season five he flat out sucks, now we are in season six and he is OP again.

Jax was well designed for his time, but is baddly designed for today, as said he is either stupidly OP in terms of balance, or absolutely useless.

Hayaishi23 votes

It's also ridiculous on Yi who was already obnoxious with Bork. You can build all the the tank items you want and Jax/Xin/Yi will melt you faster than any full build adc.

The Bíg Ticket3 votes

Low elo problem...Jax is never picked in any decent elo, nobody in OGN or LPL picked or hovered over him and I bet he won't be picked in LCS today either. Same goes for Xin and Kayle.

FacerollKatarina2 votes

I feel like sated rageblade needs to be addressed as well...

LF Annie2 votes

they fixed a bug making it effectively slower to hurt.

Pryotra2 votes

I litteraly tried Kayle yesterday with rageblade. Honestly, it's a great item to extend your lead, but if you are behind it doesn't help as much as you'd like, and would almost always be better off going with gunblade or even Rylais when behind. And if you are ahead, well, that means you can carry alot harder.

For example, had a game yesterday against a morde. Rageblade was my second item. Morde was a refugee camp. I left lane with 7 kills and a gigantic CS lead. Even though our bot lane was struggling, it didn't matter because the enemy team fed a hypercarry. Did I use rageblade? Heck yeah, because it stacked with Fervor and was an easy pickup to extend my lead.

Celeste Benal2 votes

If you are getting one-shot by Jax, he is about 4 levels over you and the game is pretty much over. This situation has little to do with Guinsoo's, and more to do with you getting dumpstered early.

Rebonack1 votes

Reduce the combine cost by 300 gold and make melee champs only get 1 stack per auto instead of 2.

Suddenly fine.

DrProfVibeCheck1 votes

If we are touching te Rageblade, dont touch its users afterwards.

We dont want another sej situation

tommyagun1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Glitterfart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yyN2NEBR,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2016-01-14T15:36:31.529+0000)

If we are touching te Rageblade, dont touch its users afterwards.

We dont want another sej situation

still waiting on riot to buff her again or at leasat buff cinderhulk's damage or health bonus

Feathermane1 votes

Ih the development of this topic, we can witness the 'bruiser main paradox'. Observe:

Jax is terrible Guinsoo's is terrible The things Jax does with Guinsoo's are clearly never meant to be done in this game.

My solution: if you can't suggest a nerf for either, then fuck you and your clearly biased opinions, and I hope Riot gives you the Sejuani double-down treatment where the champion gets nerfed first, then the item.

Degritone1 votes

Two towers in one minute? Try T2, inhib tower, inhib, and one nexus tower in one minute as AD Malz.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/yYBm9rXq-i-honestly-love-the-changes-placed-in-however-i-as-well-as-many-have-a-few-suggestions

Say no mo, I gotchu. (#12).

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