There arent any AP versions of 
Someone else mentioned that in the LCK both 
and 
took . They had overall less damage than if they were to build an actual AP item for that slot but decided too as having that active was just too important.
Villainous V17 votesI. Do not want to deal. With a fucking Fizz/Katarina/Akali. With QSS.
PokladnicaZla7 votesI dont want to deal with assassins and ADCs with QSS,but it's still there [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Saljooki1 votesYou don't want to, but you have to because if they weren't there, then ADC's and Assassins would be useless into AP CC matchups.
There's a reason QSS gives cleanse and MR.
PokladnicaZla3 votesMy question is,what makes it ok for Zed to have acces to QSS,but not AP assassins?
Villainous V2 votesBecause zed can't run zhonya or a stopwatch item
PokladnicaZla1 votes
??
Villainous V2 votesThey can't go invulnerable.
PokladnicaZla1 votesYea sorry mb, I forgot I can attack them while they ressurect.
Crett16 votesif someone takes as an AP then that's the tradeoff. 1300 gold and an item slot.
it's not like you have to buy the full item to use the active.
if an AD takes 
(or the mastery) then they get to use it once. and then they'd have to build into 
to use it again.
the roles aren't the same thing. homogenizing them and minimizing their differences isn't necessarily the direction i think riot should go in
Shatter the Sun18 votesif someone takes
if an AD takes
the roles aren't the same thing. homogenizing them and minimizing their differences isn't necessarily the direction i think riot should go in
The problem with trying to compare with is that there is an AD version of the item and in some cases its even better at they have to KILL you to burn it and you arent required to activate it whenever and restores mana as well. Its a better infact.
If a AP champ has to take QSS and cant build it further they are not only having to waste a slot for a valuable active but have to choose between damage or the active when AD champs cant.
Riot has been trying to homogenize the roles for a while now. The new AP changes and the addition to Magic pen buffs and MR nerfs are the proof. They want to make it as even as possible without breaking anything. Having a AP QSS item wont be broken imo.
Sirsir6 votesGA isn't a better Zhonyas, it has a 5 minute CD.
If not having to activate something makes it better, AP champs have 
Both damage types have solid, and similar defensive options. vs
Shatter the Sun16 votesGA isn't a better Zhonyas, it has a 5 minute CD.
If not having to activate something makes it better, AP champs have
Both damage types have solid, and similar defensive options.
Just cause GA is 5 minutes doesnt mean its passive is any less strong. Its a zilean ult that restores mana/health and does what zhonyas does and is cheaper than it.
Are they similar? Sure. But that still doesnt mean there cant be a QSS item for them. 
is another "defensive/offensive" option as it offers MR and shredding.
The point is riot has been trying to make things even in terms of items. This would just be another one of those things. If the active of QSS is that valuable that AP champs are willing to have less damage and get useless stats for it then it should be in both categories. If it was a tank items that offered tank stats then I wouldnt really question it as both could take it and benefit from it.
Hibeki4 votes9/10 times GA is not going to be used how you described, whereas zhonyas can be used a lot more liberally
Shatter the Sun6 votes9/10 times GA is not going to be used how you described, whereas zhonyas can be used a lot more liberally
I understand that. But part of the plus's of the item compared to zhonyas is that it doesnt need to be activated and must be take off first before you kill them. Someone who has zhonyas that got cc chained can die without ever getting a chance to activate it. Whereas someone with GA doesnt have to worry about as its a safety net regardless of the situation. IT HAS TO BE TAKE DOWN TO GET TO THE PERSON. if it was like zilean ult where you have to cast it on yourself then I can see that but it doesnt require that.
Hibeki2 votesHonestly having it do it for you instead of having the freedom of activating it yourself is worse.
Everyone in the game would rather take it if it was an AD zhonyas, unquestionably.
RavenMagus2 votesHighly doubtful.
You can't be stunned out of using GA. You can't be baited into using GA. The enemy must commit enough resources to 100% kill you for it to activate at all.
flibitydoo4 votesI don't think you're reading what everyone else is telling you regarding the cooldown difference.
compare the following: I am playing karthus, It's like 30 minutes, I am somewhat on pace with items. My ult does about 60-70% of your max health in damage usually when this is the case.
I ult, you have GA. you get knocked into GA state. You revive. My ult goes on it's 2-3 minute cooldown. 2-3 minutes later I ult again, you die. no GA, it's still on cooldown since it's 5 minutes to recharge and it's only been 2-3.
here's the other scenario:
I ult, you have zhonyas. You activate zhonyas. You go untargetable and take no damage from my ult. my ult goes on a 2-3 minute cooldown. You zhonyas goes on a 2 minute cooldown. I ult again once off cooldown. You immediately zhonyas to respond because zhonyas cooldown is less cooldown than my ult. I literally cannot kill you with my ult ever unless someone else on my team pressures you into popping stasis. You can always choose not to and save your zhonyas specifically to counter my ult.
wildfox997 votesGA isn't a better Zhonyas, it has a 5 minute CD.
If not having to activate something makes it better, AP champs have
Both damage types have solid, and similar defensive options.
from ADs you forgot to mention 
(ADs are not forced to build a pecific kind of boots like APs)
nm10104 votesI build sorc boots like once out of 10 games, not to mention pro games do the same thing.
> 
25 mr vs 18 pen and you get tenacity, if I think I will win hard without them I go 
to stop the marksmen from killing me in a handful of autos.
NineTailedMystic2 votesAdd a new source of 18 flat pen, then we can talk.
wildfox999 votesif someone takes
if an AD takes
so ADs can have a full item with QSS active but AP have to sacrifice damage and an item slow? it soulds fair
can be upgraded into ,so this example makes no sense (or better,it deny what you just said)
the roles aren't the same thing. homogenizing them and minimizing their differences isn't necessarily the direction i think riot should go in
well,so let's start removing the AD counterpart of AP items like
it don't have to be exatly the same,it have to remove CCs,even in a different way
ChaosThief16 votesI think the issue is because if there was an AP version of QSS, it would likely devolve into a lot of AP champions going mid to rush it. It then becomes a match of "who wins before the other gets the QSS upgrade".
That's just my assumption, anyway.
Shatter the Sun12 votesI think the issue is because if there was an AP version of QSS, it would likely devolve into a lot of AP champions going mid to rush it. It then becomes a match of "who wins before the other gets the QSS upgrade".
That's just my assumption, anyway.
Assuming the stats are even worth it. You dont want the active of QSS every game. That argument can be applied to . ADCs dont rush it every game or take it every game. Only when they need to avoid dangerous CC. Similar can be said about if it were an AP item as with the changes alot of what people rush is gonna change. It will have niche similar to 
.
xelaker4 votesthere ya go. you already have items for that scenario then...
AmenPerson6 votesDo, um. Do you, uh, know, how a Malzahar works? Because he's one of the main reasons why people need a QSS.
If you Zhonya's in front of him, he can just wait it out then ult. If you have Banshee passive, he's got his Q or E to pop it, then ult.
PePsiLemoNN7 votesThen maybe don't add a new item cause one champion can click CC you?
Saljooki2 votesOne champion does not warrant a completely new item that would most likely destroy the game. Change Malzahar, not the mid meta.
JabaTheHat3 votesTo add to this.
It's also just malz that's an outlier causing this problem. He is the ONLY reason why QSS is needed. It's better to nerf/change Malzahar than adding an item that might break the REST OF THE GAME. For example twisted fate or annie, who rely on stuns, might be too weak if AP QSS exists.
Peritheus8 votesSomething something riot support wants you to take 
against 
meme.
Anyway in the past when mages were considered better carrys then others, those that used suppression against them felt useless as their kit was negated by a simple spell while the mages still pumped out tons of aoe dmg and carried from afar, so to be fair with this they nerfed , buffing suppression.
Anyway in pro play, you can't take any risks at all, can't give them the lead you know as you could just do substantially large amounts of dmg alive with the team then if you were suppressed and collapsed upon, as the team crashes down into losing odds and objectives,teamfights, while they get stronger.
P.S. Rito HATES HYBRID items,champs,kits, and want to keep it either purely ad, ap, tank cc support,. etc instead of creating another leesin jayce who practically is a multiclass having it all
Shatter the Sun3 votesSomething something riot support wants you to take
Anyway in the past when mages were considered better carrys then others, those that used suppression against them felt useless as their kit was negated by a simple spell while the mages still pumped out tons of aoe dmg and carried from afar, so to be fair with this they nerfed
Anyway in pro play, you can't take any risks at all, can't give them the lead you know as you could just do substantially large amounts of dmg alive with the team then if you were suppressed and collapsed upon, as the team crashes down into losing odds and objectives,teamfights, while they get stronger.
P.S. Rito HATES HYBRID items,champs,kits, and want to keep it either purely ad, ap, tank cc support,. etc instead of creating another leesin jayce who practically is a multiclass having it all
Thats fine and all that riot doesnt want hybrids but giving an item with similar effects to each class wouldnt go against their hybrid plan.
LyingOnLine6 votesThey tried it once. Mages just stacked it and Zhonya’s and were unkillable. Really slowed the game down, made it boring.
Shatter the Sun4 votesThey tried it once. Mages just stacked it and Zhonya’s and were unkillable. Really slowed the game down, made it boring.
What was the name of the item?
LyingOnLine7 votesIt never made it past playtesting.
Shatter the Sun6 votesIt never made it past playtesting.
Oh. Well considering how things are now I feel it should be retested. Hopefully something will be said about it.
LyingOnLine8 votesI don’t see where the game needs specifically mages to be unkillable, so...no?
AirKingNeo6 voteswhy is there no AD hourglass?
same argument.
Shatter the Sun5 voteswhy is there no AD hourglass?
same argument.
there is a ad hourglass called GA. It was made an ad item after being a tank one for so long.
AmazoX5 votes[{quoted}](name=Shatter the Sun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yW7coPxG,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-02-08T02:12:42.544+0000)
there is a ad hourglass called GA. It was made an ad item after being a tank one for so long.
In what world is GA effect EQUIVALENT to Stasis effect? [zombie-brand-facepalm]
wildfox995 votesand if they can't give us an AP QSS,at least buff zhonya making its stasis activatable while under CC,it feels so bad being unable to use it because chain CC'd
Shatter the Sun6 votesand if they can't give us an AP QSS,at least buff zhonya making its stasis activatable while under CC,it feels so bad being unable to use it because chain CC'd
honestly if they did that for , NOT 
then there would be no need for an AP QSS.
AirKingNeo6 votes-Said no high elo player ever
MysteriousBootie5 votesgive an adc equivalent of it's bullshit that only mages have it
[zombie-nunu-bummed]
Shatter the Sun13 votesgive an adc equivalent of
[zombie-nunu-bummed]
They have a GA which does what zhonyas does but better as it gives mana back and health.
JPLangley3 votes[deleted]
INoble KnightI10 votes
Now a shit load of AD champs have slows or pulls in their kits (
....and more
You realize Gunblade works on AD champs right? But lets not forget 
for sustain.
JarodDempsey7 votesthe omnivamp has been severely nerfed in recent years to almost uselessness where it was once a common signt on many mages.
Spell shield is honestly rarely usefull unless your enemies dont know how spellshields work, it's more useful on an assasin since they can usually get to an engagement before it gets popped where as most mages simply have it popped by relatively nothing before a battle starts since it's always up.
The on ability damage slow isnt even good and arent there items that cause basic attacks to slow as well?
Grevious wounds counters people ho have a lot of lifesteal, mages aside from vlad (and new swain) never have any lifesteal, like yeah it counters healer supports but building an item simply to counter a support isnt reasonable.
yeah mages have stasis but ad has GA. Zhonyas takes a lot more thought to use well but has less cooldown and better stats.
I think a qss item for mages would be good if it had minor offensive buffs kind of like ga does for ad. Maybe like 50 ap and 50% health regen.
Rathar Dashing1 votesI want there to be an AP version of 
Kanzler5 votes....void staff?