When are we going to ban smurfing

angeldove·May 26, 2019·8 votes·2,005 views

If you are at a lower elo (iron-plat) you know that there are so many games lost by smurfs they control the game by either stomping super hard, trying something they are not good at or losing games to stay at a low elo. We need to make it so you can only have one account by banning smurfs. However there is a problem with just banning them because they can just buy another account to use as their smurf, so I say we IP ban them because this is such a huge problem with ranked and it ruins the games and the fun in ranked at lower elos.

23 Comments

XJ99999999999999May 26, 20199 votes

requring a phone to play ranked how dota 2 does it with ranked.

5050BSMay 26, 20197 votes

Riot never will but they need to it is one of the Roots of its core problems

JonesybonesMay 26, 20191 votes

No its not.

Demon King MaouMay 26, 20196 votes

Riot already tried this when clash was just comin out with the "Identify yourself on your phone" thing that locked your account to PH#

They were talking about making it restricted to #'s but that just disappeared out of nowhere after community backlash

XJ99999999999999May 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Demon King Maou,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yPkGfxrx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-26T07:39:21.145+0000)

Riot already tried this when clash was just comin out with the "Identify yourself on your phone" thing that locked your account to PH#

They were talking about making it restricted to #'s but that just disappeared out of nowhere after community backlash

thats clash, this is ranked.

Demon King MaouMay 26, 20193 votes

{quoted}

thats clash, this is ranked.

What im trying to say is If riot did this it'd have the same effect because most "Smurfs" just level accounts and sell them A gold + account is priced 300 - 400 sometimes more depending on supply and demand. Smurfs can rapid fire these accounts out because to them it's effortless.

What would happen if riot decided to lock ranked under phone numbers if the people who make money would rage which would just make a netloss for riot. Samething for "Ban Smurfs" Riot makes money off these so called "Smurfs" cause the person who buys the account will more then likely buy skins to go with his new flair and undeserved rank.

NaughtyWordMay 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Demon King Maou,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yPkGfxrx,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-26T08:10:39.473+0000)

What im trying to say is If riot did this it'd have the same effect because most "Smurfs" just level accounts and sell them A gold + account is priced 300 - 400 sometimes more depending on supply and demand. Smurfs can rapid fire these accounts out because to them it's effortless.

What would happen if riot decided to lock ranked under phone numbers if the people who make money would rage which would just make a netloss for riot. Samething for "Ban Smurfs" Riot makes money off these so called "Smurfs" cause the person who buys the account will more then likely buy skins to go with his new flair and undeserved rank.

I learned a lot from this post.

Absolut GarenMay 26, 20195 votes

I think that this may be one of the problems with trying to implement Clash. They did require phone numbers, but you also need to be ranked to play Clash.

Officially, smurfing is not allowed in ANY game mode. But they only had the incentive to actively control it for Clash. Smurfing in any game IS reportable. In cases were a player appears to be intentionally manipulating MMR or boosting, then action may be taken.

There are other problems, where MMR just lags or otherwise fails and we see people playing in games way below their level for even a hundred matches. It may not be intentional, but the effect is the same.

I also think, that if Clash ever does get implemented, then Riot may use what they learn to begin cracking down on smurfs, or at least, previously banned players in new accounts.

ScatterTheWeakMay 26, 20192 votes

Not ever happening. Smurfs get put into a smurf q after literally 2 games and quickly climb out of lower ellos. Stop crying. Get better.

5050BSMay 26, 20191 votes

So Riot thinks Im a Smurf because I see them ALL the time on the enemy team

FioraWillCarryMay 26, 20192 votes

This phone idea is terrible. I couldn't sign up for Clash because I don't have an American phone number. If this phone number thing happens, Riot would lose all non-American players.

Absolut GarenMay 26, 20195 votes

{quoted}

This phone idea is terrible. I couldn't sign up for Clash because I don't have an American phone number. If this phone number thing happens, Riot would lose all non-American players.

They can't include everybody. They already have it set to just get the largest demographic. That's why Clash is only a weekend game, always starting on Friday nights.

Can't you sign up with a virtual phone number? Google, etc...

FioraWillCarryMay 26, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Absolut Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yPkGfxrx,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-05-26T19:43:41.031+0000)

Can't you sign up with a virtual phone number? Google, etc...

I didn't even know that was a thing.

Judah the HammerMay 26, 20194 votes

{quoted}

I didn't even know that was a thing.

Google Voice, yeah.

ZephyrDrakeMay 26, 20192 votes

IP bans literally do nothing, proxies are a thing and getting a new IP is pathetically easy. Also not everyone has access to a phone or want to attach their phone into some random system they don't trust... and that not even mentioning how you can easily get random phone numbers from certain apps that plenty of people use on a regular basis.

Absolut GarenMay 26, 20195 votes

{quoted}

IP bans literally do nothing, proxies are a thing and getting a new IP is pathetically easy. Also not everyone has access to a phone or want to attach their phone into some random system they don't trust... and that not even mentioning how you can easily get random phone numbers from certain apps that plenty of people use on a regular basis.

I don't know about that - eBay has a pretty good security system that incorporates IP recognition. It's not perfect, and if somebody wants to operate a stealth account, then they certainly can. But they also catch a lot of people, probably most. It's not "pathetically easy" to break. And you only need to forget to use your VPN once...

Actually, in the instance that a player account gets locked by Riot for a financial reason - like chargebacks - then I think that Riot DOES use a similar system to recognize those users.

ZephyrDrakeMay 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Absolut Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yPkGfxrx,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-05-26T19:46:40.454+0000)

I don't know about that - eBay has a pretty good security system that incorporates IP recognition. It's not perfect, and if somebody wants to operate a stealth account, then they certainly can. But they also catch a lot of people, probably most. It's not "pathetically easy" to break. And you only need to forget to use your VPN once...

Actually, in the instance that a player account gets locked by Riot for a financial reason - like chargebacks - then I think that Riot DOES use a similar system to recognize those users.

So... what you are saying is... that is has nothing to do with IPs but with the account itself? Cool! Guess what? Doesn't solve anything because riot could just say "don't allow this bank account anymore" which is a lot more difficult to change than it is to change your IP...

Absolut GarenMay 26, 20195 votes

{quoted}

So... what you are saying is... that is has nothing to do with IPs but with the account itself? Cool! Guess what? Doesn't solve anything because riot could just say "don't allow this bank account anymore" which is a lot more difficult to change than it is to change your IP...

I don't really understand what you wrote.

Even a system that catches or deters only a small percentage of violators is worth implementing. It's not like it costs anything...

The incentive to bypass security to play a game, is surely less than the incentive to operate a Stealth account for business.

“Let me lay out the cold hard facts for you, Tommy. If you are involved in something criminal, there is a one in five chance you'll be caught. If you are prosecuted, there is a %2 chance you'll be convicted. So don't play with fire.” –Don Orville

ZephyrDrakeMay 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Absolut Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yPkGfxrx,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-26T20:04:25.690+0000)

I don't really understand what you wrote.

Even a system that catches or deters only a small percentage of violators is worth implementing. It's not like it costs anything...

The incentive to bypass security to play a game, is surely less than the incentive to operate a Stealth account for business.

“Let me lay out the cold hard facts for you, Tommy. If you are involved in something criminal, there is a one in five chance you'll be caught. If you are prosecuted, there is a %2 chance you'll be convicted. So don't play with fire.” –Don Orville

The incentive to play the game at all also reduces to a lot of people. This is something that is going to affect everyone and some way more than others. Anyone who wants to troll or be an annoying ahole is not going to stop just because they got an IP ban... It's very easy to either get a new one or go around it. Even easier these days since you more than likely already have something that let's you do this. IP bans have not done anything in the last... 7-8 years. Players from all over, Devs from all over, literally most people who have any idea or even basic knowledge will tell you the same thing and for those who don't know how to get around IP bans a simple Google search will give you all the answers you will ever need. You can do IP bans, they do nothing.

That leaves phone numbers which I already said everything I need to say about it. It's just slightly more annoying than getting around an IP ban but equally pointless since it won't stop those who truly want to ruin the game for others but it also comes at the cost of affecting tons of other people who either don't know they can just get a free phone number in a multitude of places or people that don't trust riot with that sort of information and this is not mentioning those who not have a phone or an applicable phone number.

If you are implementing something that won't affect anyone in a negative way then there is no risk. That is not the case here.

Absolut GarenMay 26, 20194 votes

{quoted}

The incentive to play the game at all also reduces to a lot of people. This is something that is going to affect everyone and some way more than others. Anyone who wants to troll or be an annoying ahole is not going to stop just because they got an IP ban... It's very easy to either get a new one or go around it. Even easier these days since you more than likely already have something that let's you do this. IP bans have not done anything in the last... 7-8 years. Players from all over, Devs from all over, literally most people who have any idea or even basic knowledge will tell you the same thing and for those who don't know how to get around IP bans a simple Google search will give you all the answers you will ever need. You can do IP bans, they do nothing.

That leaves phone numbers which I already said everything I need to say about it. It's just slightly more annoying than getting around an IP ban but equally pointless since it won't stop those who truly want to ruin the game for others but it also comes at the cost of affecting tons of other people who either don't know they can just get a free phone number in a multitude of places or people that don't trust riot with that sort of information and this is not mentioning those who not have a phone or an applicable phone number.

If you are implementing something that won't affect anyone in a negative way then there is no risk. That is not the case here.

IP Flags - meaning then the user is prompted to submit ID.

I think that having these systems in place would send a stronger message about Riot's position on these matters. The argument that security measures can be circumvented is no argument at all. You could say that about any security measure. I'm sure that there will be a few Smurfs at Clash as well.

Let them use whatever information they already have, to flag possible banned accounts and request ID. That's all. A banned user makes a new account - so, the minute that he logs in from a previous private network, or tries to buy RP with a CC that he used in a previous account, let him be asked for ID. That's all. (And if he can't prove that he's not the suspected banned user, then Riot CS will explain that he needs to heal his banned account, before he can use a new one.)

ZephyrDrakeMay 27, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Absolut Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yPkGfxrx,comment-id=000600000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-26T20:42:05.653+0000)

IP Flags - meaning then the user is prompted to submit ID.

I think that having these systems in place would send a stronger message about Riot's position on these matters. The argument that security measures can be circumvented is no argument at all. You could say that about any security measure. I'm sure that there will be a few Smurfs at Clash as well.

Let them use whatever information they already have, to flag possible banned accounts and request ID. That's all. A banned user makes a new account - so, the minute that he logs in from a previous private network, or tries to buy RP with a CC that he used in a previous account, let him be asked for ID. That's all. (And if he can't prove that he's not the suspected banned user, then Riot CS will explain that he needs to heal his banned account, before he can use a new one.)

Sorry but who in their right mind is going to submit their ID? Not like people cannot just BS or use the ID of someone else in their family. You want to kill this game? Do just that. I am done with this thread. I was in a discord server where if you wanted to get to the adult part of it you had to submit a picture ID with everything except the date cross out. Guess how many people actually did it? What's next? Should I also provide riot my social security number? Along side my address? How about some DNA test of any kind?

Absolut GarenMay 27, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Sorry but who in their right mind is going to submit their ID? Not like people cannot just BS or use the ID of someone else in their family. You want to kill this game? Do just that. I am done with this thread. I was in a discord server where if you wanted to get to the adult part of it you had to submit a picture ID with everything except the date cross out. Guess how many people actually did it? What's next? Should I also provide riot my social security number? Along side my address? How about some DNA test of any kind?

I don't know. I haven't been permabanned. Riot says that only 6 in 100,000 players ever get banned, so this should affect very few players.

Again, just because a rule can be circumvented, is NOT reason not to have a rule. But it will send a message. Maybe it would lead to better behaviour from the players operating the new accounts.

Anybody who sells on eBay has to submit ID. That's millions of people. It's not that rare. And if Riot suspects an account of actually being linked to a user who owes them money, then they already require "proof". Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with it. They already have my CC information, IP address, email, physical address.

Clash participation is dependent on telephone (ID) confirmation, and the benefits were determined to outweigh potential user alienation. (But presumably, some users, like yourself, will decline to participate rather than relinquish their presumption of anonymity.)

But, again, this would only ever affect a minute percentage of users, apparently.