Riot, we'll still love you, you can admit you made a mistake

cino·Apr 25, 2016·344 votes·11,197 views

To begin, I'm a pretty casual Boards user. usually just stop by to check out updates etc. I was pretty active on the old Forums though

But lately, whether I visit once a day, or once a week, this season all I'm seeing is frustration at Dynamic Queue. And it's justified Riot, we know you guys are gamers, and WE know that YOU know what makes games inherently fun.

I am NOT knocking on League of Legends. Since season 3 when I started, I have LOVED league of legends. For about 90% of my time playing. Unfortunately season 6 is the 10%. I don't even care about balance at this point, It's really just Dynamic Queue

Games are meant to empower a player. Whether it's living out a fantasy or just feeling strong. This has always been a struggle in league, playing with 5 strangers and having to work together to win? Sometimes you can feel helpless but the cooperation can be rewarding, and it's a cool challenge. Now it's just a struggle. Feeling totally helpless. At the disposal of premades that you can't handle and defeat as opponents. And, that you can't work with as teammates, often the victim of abuse. Feeling powerless, helpless, weak, whatever you want to call it, is what every player does NOT want. If you're concerned about Solo players being "the most toxic", congratulations - now they're constantly mad and it's going to be a lot worse! But the helplessness doesn't stop when the game ends. Good luck attemtping to root out toxicity when a solo player will get slammed with 4 reports for disagreeing with their 4 man premade temamates, or just feeding.

I mean, you're just being hypocritical. You CONSTANTLY say how your main goal when tuning a champion is making them feel strong. So how can you be comfortable with making the PLAYER feel weak?

It isn't healthy and we don't like it, you can admit it. You made a mistake but we'll still love you Riot, if you just acknowledge it and listen to people. I'm not even saying remove Dynamic, just make Solo Q a choice again, if possible [slayer-jinx-wink]

EDIT Apparently some people actually think it's a non factor? Well I'll begin with a fact I guess

Superior communication and coordination is a direct advantage in a MOBA. This is not debatable

The entire point of solo q was to overcome the challenge of lack of communication, and to work as a team to be successful. This is gone. And no, 2 duos were not the same as a 4 man premade

I mean, I don't play ranked much, I'm silver 3. Last year I was almost gold and 75% of players I play with right now have the gold border. At this silver/gold level, early leads OFTEN win.

When I see a team rotate perfectly, take dragon, and then push down mid lane 12 minutes in, it's blatantly obvious it's a premade. Players at this level cannot coordinate objective control as fast or effectively. And at this level, and shit, even at the LCS level, a major early lead can win the game

And that's exactly what happens. It's SO easy for premades to faceroll a team simply because their coordination allows them to take an early lead and capitalize on their advantage. Contesting dragon, splitting top after taking Rift, rotating bot/mid, calling out summoner and cooldowns, coordinating ganks. Sure a duo is an advantage, but 4? The synchronization is simply unfair

Don't get me wrong, it's awesome, but there's a place for it.

Ranked 5s

Apparently this post is rude and condescending.

Look, It's not out of stubbornness or selfishness that I ask this The system of choosing to play either solo/duo, or choosing to play as a full team of 5 has been PERFECTLY FINE for the last I don't even know how many years. I have nothing against premades, they just don't belong in the same games as players who wish to play solo as they have for years. I'll say it again, **it belongs in Ranked 5's ** I've seen several "Dynamic Queue was a great fix" Alright, but NOTHING WAS BROKEN New Champ select? AWESOME fix. Dynamic Queue? Not necessary

198 Comments

TrylobyteApr 25, 201648 votes

There are people on these forums that actually like Riot? Wouldn't know it from reading them...

TurquoiseYoshiApr 25, 201628 votes

There are a few. Most people on here just like being rebels and therefore dislike Riot, who they see as "the man".

MorsigilApr 25, 201617 votes

Or, maybe, we are just upset with the choices they're making?

TurquoiseYoshiApr 25, 201613 votes

I've seen people like this since I joined the community. It's definitely not a recent change.

MorsigilApr 25, 201615 votes

Right, but I think you're conflating the relatively small number of people who hate the authority of the game maker with the much larger group of people who make their displeasure at changes known

DtMayoApr 25, 201618 votes

They don't need to acknowledge a mistake because they haven't made one. They even stated that putting a solo q in is still an option if they can't fix the problem areas of dynamic q. Yea it has problem areas but that doesn't mean it's a bad system. You can't ever have a perfect system.

Dynamic queue is not a bad thing. It provides much more options for people who enjoy playing a team game with other people they know while being flexible. If you want a solo game go play a solo game. I myself enjoy ranked much more since they put it in.

McKeifusApr 25, 20166 votes

They had multiple fine systems. They tried to mash them together and it's terrible. The thing they were trying to fix was queue times, which were never all that bad. So now I get one more game in per night, but more than half of them are terrible and not the game experience I(and many many others) want.

DtMayoApr 25, 20166 votes

How is it terrible? Please tell me how? How is it meaningless? It's a team game, it always has been. I'm just so confused. I feel like people just don't want to learn how to play against coordinated groups.

It's the exact same system. The only difference is how well the teams can coordinate and it a team game I don't see how that is bad.

McKeifusApr 25, 20166 votes

The point is I don't like any part of the experience of premades. I don't like playing with 4 premades players and stomping. It's not a challenge and it isn't fun. I will never improve this way. Yes, playing against a team of 4 premades will make me play better, but not as much as playing with a group of 10 even players all using the same basic interface. I could "get good" as much as I want, but once I hit top tier as a solo player, guess what happens? The premades are still better. Your argument is empty, and does not take all issues into consideration.

DtMayoApr 25, 20166 votes

Matchmaking matches you up with evenly skilled opponents. you just don't like the idea of working together. If you don't like playing with a 4 man premade also known as a team then don't play this game.

McKeifusApr 25, 20168 votes

Again you are looking at this from a very narrowed perspective. I like playing on a team, which is exactly why I DON'T like playing with a 4 man premade. They invariably ignore the solo player and play in their own lanes. They do not communicate in chat or pings because they are on voice. I am playing my game and they are playing theirs. And that's fine for them, as that is probably how they want it. But I get the shaft.

I don't like playing AGAINST a premade, because they have an inherent advantage, and the only way to counter it is to be much much better than them, individually. The other team communicating on voice and my team communicating with chat and pings is inherenelty uneven. The fact that you don't understand that is unsurprising, as I have seen your other posts on the boards and you make very shallow arguments.

Rook LouxApr 25, 20164 votes

You know they have this thing called ranked teams, right? If you want to be a "competitive" team that should be enough. The problem i see with dynamic q is that with 4 man premades, the solo guy has no chance when it comes to the blame game. They aren't going to flame their friend and it sure as hell wasn't their fault for feeding bot lane, so therefore it's the solo guys problem

o brigid oApr 25, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You know they have this thing called ranked teams, right? If you want to be a "competitive" team that should be enough. The problem i see with dynamic q is that with 4 man premades, the solo guy has no chance when it comes to the blame game. They aren't going to flame their friend and it sure as hell wasn't their fault for feeding bot lane, so therefore it's the solo guys problem

the mute feature exists for a reason. use it.

I Am Pure KroganApr 26, 20165 votes

Pretty positive that wasn't the point this person was trying to make. And on top of that, even if you mute your entire team... That isn't going to stop that premade from reporting you. Rofl.

woodvsmurphApr 26, 20164 votes

There is such a thing as getting banned or chat restricted. I am guessing this is what loux8591 was referring to. You can't mute a report. And I know there are 4 man or 3 man squads out there that report you for trying to play intelligently just because it is not what they wanted you to do. Throwing the game with them by fighting for no good reason at a location where the enemy has the biggest advantage would make them happier than listening to your logical call that would catch the team up to the enemy. So they throw without you instead of listening to smart call, then report you. And of course they are right... because they are the majority of the team. You couldn't possibly be correct even though your call would help the entire team more. I think that's the type of blame problem he/she is referring to. Hope that helps you better understand.

1800HookMyLaneApr 26, 20167 votes

This is blatantly false. If everyone were forced to have only 1 "main" account they exclusively played on, this would be true. The fact that most ranked players have smurfs that stomp people into the ground is in no way an "evenly skilled opponent".

Riot should NOT force every player that has a goal to play with a premade team exclusively to achieve it. Another reason solo que was so great pre-dynamic.

DtMayoApr 26, 20162 votes

smurfing has nothing to do with dynamic queue. Smurfing is a problem because people smurf. People can smurf in due.

McKeifusApr 27, 20161 votes

Except dynamic queue creates new incentives to smurf.

DtMayoApr 27, 20162 votes

How does it create new incentives to smurf? Because now smurfs can queue with more people?

Dextix LTApr 25, 20166 votes

No, dynamic queue, is not a bad thing, as a normal mode, not ranked mode.

In ranked we had the solo/duo experience and 5 player teams ranked.

The solo/duo was based on your skill while team was based on your overall team skill and communication.

However, if you match up SOLO players with TEAM players, you will have a problem. These two different kinds of players cannot mix, one of them has the advantage. You throw away any need for solo skill but rather, the need to have a stronger friend.

I would give zero fcks if they had dynamic. IF they did not remove solo. If more options should havev been provided, why were they reduced to some parts of the community?

cinoApr 26, 20162 votes

Much agreed

shyvApr 25, 201614 votes

i didn't have any problems with riot until this season

in fact i LOVED riot. all the work they did was awesome, and they still do some awesome stuff, but at this point i'm more frustrated with the game than anything and i can't enjoy it even with the positive parts of league.

but i mean, you have to give riot some credit.

they made the game much easier for new players, reducing the cost of runes to ONE ip, and cutting the amount of xp required to hit lv 30 in half.
they put out fun game modes all the time
they used to only give out free rewards on good behavior once a year, now with hextech crafting, as long as you're not an asshole you can get free skins, champs, icons, ward skins, etc. really regularly. sure, the lack of keys might be a cash grab, but i can guarantee everyone has gotten at least one skin completely free
the art teams never EVER disappoint, only exception was the new SKT skins, and they said they were going to release them later in the year so they have time to put out a better final product. they made a mistake, and they went back to fix it. the rest of the skins, music, login screen animations, champ designs..... i have absolutely no complaints, they're all amazing.
the client is a LOT more stable than it was when i first started playing. bugsplats used to be pretty common.
the visual update for SR is amazing

these are just some things off the top of my head.

riot does great work. i genuinely enjoyed this game before this season, but there have been too many changes, and i don't see the point in playing ranked anymore. i know it sounds like minor things, but dynamic queue has completely demotivated me in every way. it's sad really, i want to enjoy this game again.

riot please give us solo players something to work with.

Dr WApr 25, 201611 votes

They aren't going to reply. They have no intention of creating a healthy ranked system even though it as simple as reverting back to the previous one.

DtMayoApr 25, 201610 votes

I love how so many people say ranked is meaningless this patch and it's so terrible of a system. Their main argument is boosting. How many people are boosted? I've never seen statistics. is it 1/100? 1/1000? They just state their rank is meaningless because omg everyone is boosting up to diamond.

Do you even know how the system works? Up to a certain point you can only play with someone a tier away from you. So if your are silver you can only with with golds or bronze. I don't see how a silver playing with golds is boosting. Above plat it's even less than that because they start limiting it by divisions.

Even with those restrictions matchmaking tries to balance out teams from there. So if you are gold and play with a silver, the enemy team will most likely have a silver also.

GrindingApr 25, 20167 votes

there's more to boosting now, its not simply being carried, you can have 3 people work well together but are mediocre separate, say a top, mid, jg they feed off each other ganks and what not, then when they play alone they don't get a baby sitter or someone to give them kills to help back in the game, or lets say they just have one good player who can carry the other 2, i know plenty of people that have been silver for a couple seasons, but now they are mid gold easy because of DQ, and no they haven't got any better i know the players that are carrying them, DQ is garbage system for a competitive ladder even on paper is doesn't make any sense, then include the fact that literally relies on solo players who only want to play alone, it alienates millions of players while using them to make larger amount of players happy, needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few until the few leave and take many with them.

DtMayoApr 25, 20164 votes

They aren't boosting. They are working as a team in a team game to climb rank. What is wrong with that? I'm sorry I can't take you for your word that they are no better than they used to be. Also dq only relies on solo players for four man premades.

That's just a silly argument that people shouldn't be able to play well together and climb rank. Sorry you can't learn to play against people who are actually coordinated.

Dextix LTApr 25, 20168 votes

They should be able to do that. It is called 5 man team ranked.

And solo players should be able to play solo and depend on THEIR skill.

And, playing alone against 3-4 coordinated players is simply impossible.

LycanoonApr 25, 20162 votes

No, not always. I've seen these 3-4 coordinated players think rushing mid was wise, and ignored top...resulted in a 12 minute match as our teams "Tank" burned through the turrets and inhibitor... Sometimes you cross people with One Track minds resulting in an easy win.

SluicewayApr 25, 201611 votes

The thing you underestimate is that Riot's PR strategy seems to be, "We know we made a mistake, but don't worry, our next mistake will fix that."

PbJMpP4xzkApr 25, 201610 votes

Upvoted bring back soloQ, dynamicQ make no sense in term of a mathematical ranking queue, you can't get any numbers about your performance since its all about the premades.

Athenes LuluApr 25, 20169 votes

More like we'll like you more if you make mistakes, admit to them, and is actually making an effort to fix it. Yes we all know it is the most popular game worldwide, but it is ok to make mistakes as long as you admit and correct it.

The problem is how slowly they get things done though.

612X0dbmDSApr 25, 20168 votes

Someone at Riot has put their ego and career on the line with the dynamic Q. This crap won't go away for a while unfortunately.

This is like Blizzard and the whole Diablo 3 real money auction house thing. It took a while before they admitted they fucked up and Jay Wilson had to step down.

ModCaptainMårvelousApr 25, 20167 votes

Sigh.

People still don't understand that, to Riot, Dynamic Queue isn't a mistake. In fact, Dynamic Queue ISN'T a mistake....to the casual player. Boards/Pros/etc. make up about <1 million players. So what do the other...IDK, 99 million say? They like the queue and they like playing with friends. Yeah, it sucks, but Dynamic Queue isn't a failure when it comes to the player base as a whole?

Does that suck? Yes. Do I prefer solo queue? Again, yes. (Haven't touched ranked yet. Was waiting for true solo queue) But let's not kid ourselves into thinking dynamic queue is a failure at large.

LauchmelderApr 25, 20169 votes

Let me tell you what exactly changed in ranked: Nothing. People make a giant out of a mouse there. It's not even halfway as bad as people make it sound like.

There is no difference between getting matched with a 4 man premade or 2 duos. And generally speaking premades aren't worse/better than the league they are in. Or flame more/less. Most of what the common boards users complain about is just negativity bias. They don't remember when they had friendly premades and only remember the toxic ones.

cinoApr 26, 20165 votes

There's a pretty big difference

I mean, 4 people working together is 80% of a team. Not hard for the 5th to drag along

When you find yourself scrambling to get your random teammates to focus on objectives while the other team has begun outrotating you and coordinating objectives like dragons and early turrets, it's very easy to get quite behind quite fast

At my elo, teams lose hope fast. Early leads often win games so to be honest, most games against 4 man premades are just a fucking stomp. And the reverse when I happen to be with one. Not healthy

AnagsApr 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Sigh.

People still don't understand that, to Riot, Dynamic Queue isn't a mistake. In fact, Dynamic Queue ISN'T a mistake....to the casual player. Boards/Pros/etc. make up about <1 million players. So what do the other...IDK, 99 million say? They like the queue and they like playing with friends. Yeah, it sucks, but Dynamic Queue isn't a failure when it comes to the player base as a whole?

Does that suck? Yes. Do I prefer solo queue? Again, yes. (Haven't touched ranked yet. Was waiting for true solo queue) But let's not kid ourselves into thinking dynamic queue is a failure at large.

Actually soloq caters to the casual player. Why? Because they don't have to put forth the effort of making a team and learning to play with that team. They just start the game up and play their lane. That is as casual as this game gets. People basically complain because they don't want to play against or with the more serious coordinates groups.

VorpalKitsuneApr 26, 20162 votes

Not true. Yes laning matters, but you have always had to work with your team regardless of if you are solo or premade. So soloing is not less or more casual.

LycanoonApr 25, 20165 votes

Dynamic Que's are a joke. I'm always picking Support and Fill...then get told to pick a specific champion or I'll get reported for feeding and unsportsman like conduct... Yet, I picked Twitch as a support based character, and carried the entire match!!!!! I got reported for unsportsman-like conduct, harassment, and "Other"...

I hate dynamic que with such a passion...then you have these morons who que as top/bot GOING MID!!!! AND JG!!!! Dynamic Que makes no sense, and is a pain in the ass! GET RID OF IT!

DtMayoApr 25, 201620 votes

First I think you are confused between what dynamic queue is and the new champion select process.

Secondly, having people tell you what to play isn't a dynamic queue problem. That happens in solo queue and before the new champ select process.

novocaine kissesApr 25, 20162 votes

i totally agree with you. the meta cannot be broken without someone freaking out when you're in dynamic queue. I main support and am always yelled at when I don't pick a "real" support. you said it the best, people don't stick to the roles they picked. and I don't like the way champ select goes. The only good thing about it is that it allows more then just the first pick to make bans.

AnagsApr 26, 20167 votes

{quoted}

i totally agree with you. the meta cannot be broken without someone freaking out when you're in dynamic queue. I main support and am always yelled at when I don't pick a "real" support. you said it the best, people don't stick to the roles they picked. and I don't like the way champ select goes. The only good thing about it is that it allows more then just the first pick to make bans.

People freaked out a out non meta picks well before dynamic q. Dynamic q has zero to do with that.

Lithium RosaApr 25, 20165 votes

"a" mistake? No no they made hundreds of them, actually the number is so big that I start to suspect they are screwing this game intentionally

Cowgirl EdApr 25, 20164 votes

more like: we won't love you ever again.

cinoApr 25, 201632 votes

If they fix this stuff, I'll cease to have any problems with this season and with the game as a whole

Osaka 778Apr 26, 20162 votes

But won't it leave a sour taste? I think Riot Lyte is too prideful.

Karma DeifiedApr 25, 20164 votes

Indeed @Title. It's not even like the game as a whole is bad, the solo ranked experience just makes every single flaw in the game outshine every good aspect so amazingly that one can consider leaving the game altogether.

And the solution is so simple. They don't even need make a whole new queue. Just let solo players opt out of playing with premade players. Or on the extreme end, just revert the queues. We saw it happen when server crashed so it's not like it's an impossibility.

Akuma KaiApr 26, 20163 votes

That's the problem with games and their communities. The community thinks they are in control when they are not..... especially when it comes to a free game. You can cry about the changes all you want but the game states before you play you must agree to the TOS before you play. In this agreement it states they are free to change their game any way they want, even discontinue the service.

In the end the choices that are made is in Riot's full control. We as the players do not have a say in how they want their game to develop into a permanent esport. Yeah we may voice our concerns, give them suggestions, which again in the TOS states they can take your suggestions freely and use them, but ultimately the decisions they make is theirs.

No one is going to like change. Ever. But you're going to have to deal with it or leave the game for another. And before people jump on what I have to say, you can go ahead and keep voicing your concerns, no one is saying you can't. What is being said is you don't have control, influence or the means to pushing Riot into doing the things you want for a game that you agreed you have no control over with the TOS.

As for what I think. Both queues are kind of garbage, I don't think one is better over the other. It's kind of clear that the old queue had more ways to troll but neither dealt with AFKs or whining kids in general. You know the type of people who attack others for mistakes when they make the same if not more amount of mistakes in the same game. These kind of dumb kids need to leave or grow up.

cinoApr 26, 20167 votes

Well, of course we control them We are their source of income

Currently, I'm playing competitively significantly less, and I'm considering dropping league.

They wont make money if their fuckups literally turn their playerbase away

zmmbyApr 26, 20163 votes

I play as support all the time, i mean "fill" and just stopped caring. Ill play anything bot these days. Wont bother with any division or motivation at all since the game is actually pure BS right now.

Every game is filled with graves, lee sin, zed, ekko, leblanc, thresh, ezreal and lucian

I was actually hyped about the new queue system when they first announced it, but it has become a total nightmare. I can give creds to Riot for pimping up the user interface for queue-mode and making it better but these premades bullshit needs to stop.

I want my solo queue.

LoL has become more of a routine in my life then something that i actually enjoy. I login after work and play 2-3 games and then im off to Dark Souls 3.

Praise the sun.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]