Riot's Inability to Nerf Graves

Rammus Da Turtle·5/7/2017, 5:20:10 PM·20 votes·2,499 views

I've been playing league of legends for about three years now and have been a jungle main the whole time. I have 410 mastery points so i enjoy having a lot of variety in my matches. Even though i could be called a rammus main or one trick, i still enjoy seeing a great mix of characters in my games: it provides as a challenge from champ select to the destruction of the nexus by being able to strategize around each characters unique kits. However, lately I've been seeing less champion diversity than ever out of the game- it seems every game has a graves in it. Im not here to bitch about how he never gets nerfed- im here because of the nerfs that they've given graves are useless.

Graves has been an S tier jungler since patch 5.22, the ADC update. That is a year and a half on top of the league of legends solo queue and professional stage. Since his rework he has gotten several nerfs, both direct and indirect, and still hasnt to seem gone down in power or popularity. I'm tired of this champion, i bet a lot of people are, but i feel more aggravated that Riot knows he needs nerfing and then just gives him a slap of the wrist. WingsofDeath ( a high elo Top lane main) has said "ive never been 100-0'd by a graves and said "damn that champion is so broken i wish he had less magic resist from his passive"" with obvious sarcasm. The nerfs that riot does give graves are pathetic. I know that he is suppose to be a damage dealing jungler, but he should not be a jack of all trades and still king of everything kind of character! He can out clear any character, out sustain any character, fight nearly anyone at early levels, does crazy damage at ALL stages of the game. And what are his down sides? Range and reloading. But both of these weaknesses are covered up in his kit! He can reload with his e which makes him get closer to his targets, his passive gives him a shit ton of resistance and his reloading mechanic is far more forgiving then Jhin's and goes down with attack speed. His range is not limited to his 425 attack range because of his Q and his R which give him a much larger range capabilities. Not to mention he has a slow and blind to get into range. He does it all and even though ive had my fair share of graves games i am fed up with it.

The only solution i could see to this would be break his legs and let other characters have a spotlight for a change or rework him, i'd honestly be fine with either, but Graves has had his time to shine for far too long. Riot has no problem nerfing an ADC thats been in meta for a few weeks like lucian, or nerfing one that adds a different style and playstyle that wasnt intended (like AP Kog Maw), but they wont nerf someone whos been at pinnacle of the competitive scene for over a year now.

22 Comments

MunchCrunchLunch5/7/2017, 6:47:45 PM8 votes

"Riot's Inability to nerf graves"

removed MR off E. completely removed the RE animation canceling. not that long ago his auto damage was reduced. immediately after release Q damage was reduced two times. E stats got reduced . and R damage was reduced.

Skorch5/7/2017, 8:29:29 PM4 votes

You know, some people are bad AND have high pickrates. Graves is still picked A LOT, however as far as balance graves is pretty ok. He has received many nerfs lately and has dropped down to: (from multiple sources)

2nd highest pickrate jungler... 26th best jungler sitting on a 49% winrate. 49% being the highest % i could find.

Graves is just popular. And i dont beleive in making a champion have a 40% winrate just so they arent picked. Graves is fine.

Saevum5/7/2017, 5:24:05 PM4 votes

But... he just had his cigar back.

How dare you, how could you?

ModAcademy Kayn5/7/2017, 8:20:00 PM3 votes

Graves gets specifically nerfed to lower damage on his Tankier builds

Nope, never nerfed.

Graves loses damage, and gains delay time on Q

Nope.

Graves loses MR from True Grit

Never nerfed

Bisaknosp5/7/2017, 8:00:46 PM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rammus Da Turtle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y2JV0Bkp,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-07T17:20:10.548+0000)

but Graves has had his time to shine for far too long.

LeeSin ?

My Heartshaker5/7/2017, 5:43:21 PM2 votes

It's funny because graves is one of those champions that's only ever received nerfs since his rework yet still remains a highly contested pick.

Personally, I think it's to do with his itemization item 3046 and item 3071 which he abuses quite a lot. But the BC nerf should hurt (and it did) him quite a bit.

Only Play Darius5/7/2017, 6:46:05 PM2 votes

He's about to get Elise'd. And I will have no sympathy for his players, Elise was trashed at her only role. Graves was never meant to be a jungler.

Elkington VI5/7/2017, 7:15:18 PM2 votes

I feel you.

He's in every game on TT as well, and it's been that way for a long time. If they really wanted to nerf him, they would hit both his mana costs and cooldowns, like they did with Trundle.

Tik1155/7/2017, 7:02:38 PM1 votes

I know that he is suppose to be a damage dealing jungler

Nonononono

He was meant to be an ADC, he began AS an ADC. he just went the way of Blitz/Vi Top and people were all "hey he works better in this role!"

The problem is his clear speed and itemization, the Black cleaver while nerfed will still have its stacks applied multiple times for one AA of Graves and he can keep up with Ivern, arguably the fastest jungle clearer designed for the jungle from the start, this combined makes him a very safe pick, what they need to do is hit how the on-hit effects work or slow his clear speed like his Q deal reduced damage to epic monsters

Dethflash5/7/2017, 6:05:03 PM1 votes

Ive played quite a lot of Graves games (though im no Graves god), and i think the mechanic what his autos knock back monsters and minions is what allows him to clear his jungle without taking much damage, so then he is free to invade or gank early in the game because he has basically his full health bar still. If riot got rid of that mechanic for Graves he would take more damage early game from clearing his jungle, leaving him less oppressive in the early game due to not always having a full health bar after first clear. Also makes invading Graves easier to do because he will have to actually take damage from the jungle camps leaving him at lower health allowing for a Kha, rengar or lee sin type champion to sneak up and finish him off while he is clearing his camp. The most recent Deaths Dance buff was basically a direct buff from Graves since black cleaver got nerfed.

I think Riot just really likes how unique Graves is as a champion, so they are scared to give him the Azir treatment, but i think removing the knock back mechanic would be a great start, allowing for more counter play early in the game to try and put Graves behind without completely gutting him like Azir.

If riot doesnt want to remove this mechanic, then lowering his Damage scaling on his Q would be good. 120% AD scaling ratio seems like a lot, maybe like 90% AD scaling would be better

XxxLumberJackxxX5/7/2017, 8:34:39 PM1 votes

I think higher mana costs world be a start. And a CD between the kickbacks on campus instead of removing it all together

JustARivenMain5/7/2017, 9:49:46 PM1 votes

Meanwhile Sej was really good for 2 or 3 days and had an emergency mid patch uber nerf with more on the pbe

JackMcSnipeyz5/7/2017, 9:59:56 PM1 votes

Graves got nerfs to his: E resistances. Q damage, multiple times. Basic attack scaling (less damage per pallet)

But no, let's ignore all that, lets complain about a 49% winrate jungler.

If anything, Graves needs his knockback removed, that's the reason he can clear so fast and stay healthy, remove that and he will be fine.

Sohleks5/8/2017, 7:46:34 PM1 votes

I think all they need to do is remove the knockback auto on minion mechanic tbh. This'll remove his ability to clear painlessly which gives him a powerful strategic advantage in high level play even if Graves was tuned to a potato. Range in jungle is underrated. I mean with Teemo's blind + range I can clear jungle with him with zero damage assuming red buff regeneration sustain. It may feel bad for Graves though because without that he won't be able hit for max damage and kite. This'd be the fastest way to nerf his jungle.

This would push him to wanting to be played as a laner I think. The thing is though he's an ass top laner to play against. Not super oppressive but really lame and boring with his push power. And I really doubt he can easily gain popularity as a real ADC again like this.

Also his interaction with black cleaver is actually dumb. If that didn't work he'd have to build Youmuo's or PD earlier and be less tanky and generally less useful. Black cleaver in general is a poorly balanced item clutching up certain characters only to be abused by others.

Those two things gone would push him off the face of the earth I think but still leaves him room to be played if you're actually dedicated to Graves.