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Abandonment of the Holy Trinity.

i am gosu··3 votes·2,920 views

I'll start with the introduction, and some background. I've been playing computer games and console games since around 1989, during that time I've worked on my own indie projects, none quite as successful as League its self. I noticed something pretty quickly, there's a guideline that most MMOs/RTS/MOBA follow, and that's the holy trinity as it is called. http://reportsfromthefield.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/holytrinity.jpg And here's the basic run down.

  • TANK; deals very little damage, makes up for it by having excellent crowd control and tenacity. Soaks large amounts of damage without showing much damage taken.

  • DPS; Deals a lot of damage in a short amount of time, has very little CC, low tenacity, and takes larger amounts of damage than a tank.

  • Healer; Has a large amount of CC removal, tenacity, but takes damage very easily, can also heal up the tank if he takes too much damage from holding the threat.

I'm not sure why you (Riot) think it's healthy for tanks to do near as much damage as a carry class champion (Lucian / Riven / Khazix, to name a few). While I can see why stepping away from the trinity slightly to promote creativity and not be another nameless MMO with the same traits as the next CAN be considered a good thing. There's problems that are sure to follow, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed the Juggernaught rework wasn't fun for anyone.

(I doubt I'll get a red post here, but I don't really mind, I'll get the community's views on something that's killed my interest in the game.)

Juggernaughts make a great story, they make a really great story. Arms flailing Mary Sue that takes nigh 0 damage from everything, and hits like a truck. But League is more than a story, and you have to think beyond the bounds of story, and think gameplay. What I'm getting at is, in a highly competitive skill-based arena like the Rift, it's unsatisfying when something fitting the description of a Mary Sue juggernaught comes along. I won't speak for the community myself, but I'd much rather that tanks stick to their trinity: "deals very little damage, makes up for it by having excellent crowd control and tenacity."

I feel like continuously making new champions with the same fault is a downward slope to many people (like myself) becoming un interested with the gameplay.

The trinity /worked/ for the same reasons you decided to leave it, which boggles my mind; each role contributed something different and necessary for victory. Juggernaughts have the same damage as some DPS champions, without the weaknesses, and so then people begin to wonder why they even play DPS champions, if Juggernaughts are equally, if not more effective.

In conclusion, you then you have metas evolve to this toxic gamestyle, and the game we used to cherish and enjoy ( s1-s4) becomes something entirely different, and frankly unfun to play, in my opinion.

Think about it.

11 Comments

Frostbreath4 votes

I feel like you think league is a pve game, tank healer and dps works great in that regard, but what about when the bunch of pixels on your monitor is another person with a brain? If you expect a tank with only cc and damage reduction to be worth anything you're gravely mistaken. If a darius can get a full combo on a trist, why shouldn't she die? Even if Darius uses flash e, it's not that large of a range, and trist shouldn't be that far up when he still has flash/e available. If tanks dealt no damage, and only had cc and damage reduction, they will just be ignored, and there would be no reason to play tanks, just more supports that heal or shield or remove cc, and then playing a tank you would just be worthless as the supports keep the dps at full hp while the tanks cc, just to have it removed by qss and multiple mikaels crucibles. Tanks deal a lot of damage if they get onto squishy targets (because they are squishy) they build full damage and neglect defensive stats so they can deal tons of damage, and they SHOULD get punished if they get caught out or can't kite properly. DPS would litterally just ignore the Tank, and focus the healer / DPS on the other team, and whichever DPS does the most damage or whichever Healer can't keep their DPS alive will lose, as the tanks will be left alive, unable to do any damage, only ccing to delay their inevitable death. If a tank doesn't do damage, they will be ignored, but if a tank has to build full damage to deal damage he will just be another DPS that gets killed instantly.

AFilthyCaitMain3 votes

Juggernauts are immobile, melee, and have no cc. Easy to kite and lock down in fights. Take illaoi, very easy to play around.

Tanks like sej: giving them damage off tank stats is bullcrap.

i am gosu1 votes

{quoted}

Juggernauts are immobile, melee, and have no cc. Easy to kite and lock down in fights. Take illaoi, very easy to play around.

Tanks like sej: giving them damage off tank stats is bullcrap.

juggernaughts are immobile?

Not in the current meta, Garen can catch you pretty easily with Q, most illaoi players run stormraiders now in the relevant brackets, Darius seems to have no trouble catching people with ghost. And even though they aren't tanks, they're still built to withstand large amounts of damage and burst, while dishing out annoying high damage themselves. Riot is a smart company with a lot of money, I'm sure they could find some way for tanks to be useful without making them stale and unfun for gameplay.

And on aother note, yes, Illaoi is the only juggernaught I don't tear my hair out or see my team mates feed to all hell, her kit doesn't seem unfair, because you're given avenues of options on what you can do to survive / win lane.

AFilthyCaitMain1 votes

I cant really come up with an explanation of the mobility argument, as i dont know enough into that subject to make a solid statement, but there are reasons you see less and less of juggernauts the higher you climb.

Imo Illaoi is probably one of the most fair champions in game, although shes a bit TOO fair for the enemy team. Thats why youll never see illaoi in pro play.

Hexs Fortune1 votes

Most tanks don't do that much damage. Name the specific few who can, like Gragas.

Lauchmelder1 votes

Isn't Gragas an AP bruiser type?

Hexs Fortune1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xtEnN5sA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-08-26T21:38:36.350+0000)

Isn't Gragas an AP bruiser type?

He's officially listed as a Tank Vanguard

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses

Lauchmelder1 votes

That's just stupid, that guy can oneshot you....

Rainfall1 votes

there are like 10 heal/shield supports in the game,its just that janna and lulu are currently broken,just ban them until the next season when riot notices.

i am gosu1 votes

My main problem here is with Juggernaughts. Illaoi is okay.

Jbels3 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am gosu,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xtEnN5sA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-08-26T21:28:56.146+0000)

My main problem here is with Juggernaughts. Illaoi is okay.

Juggernauts? How are they out of l-

Oh. I just noticed what you did. You, like many people, mistook Juggernauts as being a type of tank. They are not. They are meant to be low CC high bulk high damage champions. Sion is a tank, Gragas is a tank. Darius is a fighter in the Juggernaut class

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