A few days ago I was playing 
and I was matched up against an 
, at first I didn't mind it but once we got into a teamfight we both used our ults (me and annie) and I hers did about twice as much as mine, even with less ability power and lasts about 6 times longer than mine did, just a suggestion, either buff his ratios or change his ult, Thanks
EndlessSorcerer2 votesAnnie's ultimate applies the majority of its damage instantly.
In addition, Viktor has advantages in range, mobility, waveclear, and safety over Annie.
Also, if a single game is the basis of your argument, you should at the very least link to the game in question.
For all we know, you could have been 0/10 against a 10/0 Annie when her ultimate did twice the damage of yours.
ToxicChim3ra1 votesok, do the math and tell me how annie's ult does less than viktor, yet her ult lasts longer 6 times longer and is able to tank towers, im not saying theres anything wrong with her ult I'm just pointing out how viktors isn't as good. His ult should get a buff or just changed.
EndlessSorcerer1 votesTheir ultimates are only one element in their kits.
Even if one ultimate is stronger than another, this can be balanced by different elements in their kits (i.e. their passive and three normal abilities, base stats, autoattack range).
In this case, Viktor has better waveclear, mobility, and range with the rest of his abilities.
ToxicChim3ra1 votesi know that im just saying that viks ult kinda lacks, even if he has strong wave clear (annie also as a spell that clears waves) all in all im just saying that its kinda lame how annie's can stun and all viks does is doodoo damage :P
Twiggles1 votesIf you think Viktor's ult does ahem doodoo damage, then you are most definitely doing it wrong.
ToxicChim3ra1 voteslate games his e does more damage, jussayin
Twiggles1 votesJust did the math.
Let's assume a whopping 1000 AP for the sake of simple math.
E: 250 base damage with a 70% AP Ratio. If it hits both times, it does 60% less damage on the second hit.
R: On cast: 350 base damage with a 55% AP ratio. Then it deals another 45 + 10% AP per half second for 7 seconds (14 ticks total). The maximum damage over time effect of Viktor's ult is thus 630 base + 140% AP.
With 1000 AP, Viktor's E can do a maximum of 1330 Damage if it hits both times.
With 1000 AP, Viktor's ult can do maximum of 2930 damage if you hit with the entire aoe duration.
I'll also factor damage without best case scenario conditions.
Viktor's E: 950 Damage if it only hits the first part with 1000 AP at level 18.
Viktor's ult: 900 Damage to anyone in the aoe when it is cast. However, champs are likely to take at least 3-4 ticks of damage since the ult can move on command, dealing an additional 145 damage per half-second with 1000 AP at level 18.
When you actually do the math, Viktor's ult outclasses his E very dramatically. Especially if you figure that his E is easier to sidestep and his ult has a fairly large area of effect.
Jussayin.
ToxicChim3ra1 votesyou didnt understand the ratio in the per half second... Viks ult would be good if it did that much, I do appreciate your efforts thought
Twiggles1 votesThen please, explain to me where I misunderstood it. As I understand, damage per half-second means how much damage is done every half-second. By all means. Tell me where I went wrong.
Because that IS how much damage Viktor's ult does.
ToxicChim3ra1 votesIf i could record gameplay, i could show you, just play him yourself and then you will see that the tick would not do as much overtime
Twiggles1 votesExplain yourself, then. How was my math incorrect? Keep in mind that my calculations were made based on Viktor having 1000 AP (not likely to happen in an actual game) as well as not factoring in enemy resistances. I gave you raw numbers and correct mathematics.
This is all assuming 0 magic resist on your target. This is simply numbers. Even if you take away any and all AP, Viktor's E will do 350 base damage IF you hit both parts of it. Only hitting once will do 250. Viktor's ultimate will do 350 damage just by being cast, and then another 90 damage per second (45 every half-second).
Unless you can prove to me where my math went wrong, then you have no leg to stand on here. Viktor's ultimate is fine, especially compared to his E.
ToxicChim3ra1 votesthis honestly went beyond my actual comment, just did a custom game with some of my friends and yeah you were right. The whole point to this was saying how much better annies ult is though
Twiggles1 votesFair enough point. I haven't actually done the comparison that spawned your thread yet. I was just focused on your comment about Viktor's E damaging more than his R. But now I kind of want to do the Annie math too. :P
All of this is assuming level 18 with 1000 AP (for mathematics sake)
Viktor R
Cast Range: 700
Cooldown: 100 seconds
Maximum Damage: 2930 (900 on cast [350 base + 55% AP], 2030 over the course of 7 seconds [45 per half second base + 10% AP per half second])
Damage Radius: 325 units on cast 325 units on AOE
Movement Speed: Unsure, but it can be safely assumed to be no less than Viktor's own movespeed of 380 (335 base + 45 from 
). More possible from items like 
and 
.
Effect: Always interrupts channeled abilities on cast.
Annie R Cast Range: 600 Cooldown: 80 Seconds Maximum Damage: 15681.25 (1225 on cast [9450 base + 80% AP], 10800 over the course of 45 seconds [40 per second + 20% AP per second], and 3656.25 from auto-attacks [130 per attack every 0.625 seconds for 45 seconds]) Damage Radius: 290 units on cast. 200 units on AOE damage over time. 125 unit auto-attack range. Movement Speed: 350 (+ 300 decaying over 0.75 seconds when Annie's E is cast). Effect: Can stun for 1.75 seconds when used properly with Annie's passive.
On paper, Annie's ult seems to outshine Viktor's in almost every way. The numbers are just better in everything except range and damage radius.
However, it is FAR easier to achieve Viktor's maximum damage than Annie's. It is feasible for Viktor to hit a target with his ult's full duration. However, Annie's will only usually get a few (think 3-5) ticks of AOE damage since the tick itself is slower and maybe 3 auto attacks. More if Annie pops her Molten Shield. On top of that, Annie's AOE and cast range are both smaller than Viktor's, and her CC requires that she set it up and not poke with her other abilities first. Meanwhile, Viktor can poke more safely and more consistently than her with the rest of his kit since he doesn't need to save charges to fuel his ult's potential.
At the end of the day, it comes down to differences in how the champions are designed. Annie is most definitely a better all-in champ than Viktor. The instant bear drop is a massively powerful tool for both its CC and damage, but she has to load her passive into it to really get the best of it. Without her passive, she really only has half of her ult.
Meanwhile, Viktor is better at and more focused on poke than Annie. His ult's damage is lower, but more reliable and easier to hit multiple targets with. It is much more likely for enemies to get hit with 7 seconds of Viktor's ult than to hug Tibbers for even 5 seconds of his 45 second existence. This is partly because of just how much smaller Tibbers' AOE field is, and how much slower he is than Viktor's ult.
Do I think Annie could use some nerfs? Maybe. I think it'd be wise to put a bit of a delay on Tibber's cast (throwing the teddy bear like so many have suggested), but I don't think it's really fair to compare Summon: Tibbers to Chaos Storm. They just aren't the same ability, despite their similarities.
But I can honestly say that Viktor seems to be fine. His ult included. I certainly don't think he needs any buffs at the moment. And he's been my favorite mid laner since season 3, so me not asking for buffs should say something. :)
I'm sorry if my previous comments seemed confrontational. I kind of felt bad after re-reading them. Anyways, I hope you enjoyed another round of LoL Math. :P