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Katarina is in somewhat in a sad state right now

ConsentualCharm··5 votes·2,800 views

I realize Katarina can be frustrating to play against in lower levels of play, but now she's just frustrating to play. the impression i get when playing in ranked is that it's easier to climb if you play a select few champions and get really good at them. my champion of choice and favorite champion, by far, is Katarina. But lately she feels as though she doesn't do enough to cause any sort of fear which is really the only tool she ever held. and without that tool it's actually a little upsetting to play her at all now. I wouldn't be surprised if they kick her out of Noxus soon.

The kind of situations that get to me are when people will intentionally stand on my daggers to bait my champion into them just so that when i do they can easily win the trade. Now of course as someone who has played Katarina a lot in the past i wouldn't go in because they would win the trade, but... then I would realize, well if that's a trade i can't win, then there's no reason to play this champion. Katarina's daggers SHOULD strike fear into enemies. but they don't anymore.

first big game change that greatly affected her was when they changed how minions would agro. this was in patch 8.2; any targeted abilities now attract minion attention. for Kat this meant no more free Q damage. she would now take a little damage in return. which by itself seemed fine as a healthy change in the name of balance and fairness, after all it doesn't cost mana, fine, that's good balance. (That being said HP is very important.

then they hit her directly the very next patch. In 8.3 they lowered her main source of damage: voracity (her passive when grabbing tossed out daggers). they hit it pretty damn hard too, "Base dagger damage reduced to 68 − 240 (based on level) from 75 − 287 (based on level)." Apparently this was to keep her from being too capable of playing the game if she was to take a few too many set backs. I really think this change has A LOT more repercussions then just what they wanted to achieve with it, but once again, this alone is not TOO too bad. It's the 5 to 10 indirect nerfs that came after (and a few before) that just made her so deeply un-viable.

It's just been a lot of nerfs to assassin's overall since then. the electrocute nerf. I personally really liked item 3916. It gave her a little extra healthiness and gave her a little more burst, but they HARD nerfed that. she's overly reliant on her first item item 3148 which is very expensive and she has literally nothing in the game to help her get to it reliably. It's fine that she's a very risky champion, but the payoff is so lackluster now and the risk has been increased by constant neglect. so tell me: Why should anyone gamble with Katarina now?

this is mostly for Riot's eyes: [I want riot to understand me so I'll say it: I've tried branching out lately to enjoy other champions, and i have enjoyed it, but I'm losing interest in them. These other champions don't hold my interest like Katarina does. I still want to play Katarina, but i know i shouldn't and it is heartbreaking to have to accept that and I'd be doing myself a disservice to continue playing League of Legends if she doesn't get some attention from you guys. and I do understand that Katarina gets a lot of hate from the community, but as a Noxian I think that makes for a very fitting thing for her, especially as a female. Darius is an Ahole, Draven is an Ahole, but Katarina is kind of a pushover lately. and I've always appreciated how the characters fit with how they make the players feel, opponents and allies included, But Katarina's deeply out of character lately, she's weak. She's very slow early game. and she's so important to me as a League champion. Without her in the game, I don't like the game nearly as much. ya know?]

I don't think Kat was that unhealthy to begin with, i think all her de-buffing stemmed from community hate. but Riot ALWAYS takes something away from her without giving it back to her in some other form or medium. She's not the type to ask for help from you guys personally, but she does need help. she'll struggle along all on her own and that's why I'm here on her behalf.

Katarina inspired people to put extra effort into thinking about their strategy, especially the Katarina players, but also Katarina's opponents. she would motivate players to have to think outside their usual play-style and consider Katarina's options which has become FAR TOO EASY. and without her I assure you the community will become weak minded. [katarina-love] Please, Riot. Show Katarina some love and appreciation. She'll never show it, but she's hurting on the inside. All the kat mains will flex hard. and strain themselves proving they're still the s**t on the rift and in ranked, But they're ALL having real hard time out there. item 3070item 3073Katarinaitem 3070 Thanks for reading all this

TL;DR: Kat has been nerfed again and again and again, probably 15 times in a row. pretty hardcore directly, but mostly indirectly. and it's pushed her out of character. and she needs some attention from riot.

16 Comments

VoraciousX4 votes

I miss building ludens on her personally. They just HAD to go and make it a mana item and lower it's AP. It fit her so well. I don't think Kat is that bad right now honestly, but that cost change to oblivion orb hurts like hell. I used to go item 3145 item 3916 item 3020 before completing Gunblade. Now I feel especially weak before completing oblivion orb because it takes longer for me to reach my powerspike. Once I do though I feel about the same as before.

ninja tabikat4 votes

I think she's a little worse than you realize. It's just a strong sense of running out of meaningful options in a lot of scenarios due to not having enough damage to compete in any given match She's kinda devolving into how old Kat used to work. jump in for an ult. or don't do anything at all. if you are doing good on her it's probably because you're getting loads of help from your teammates or you're just a much better player than your lane opponent.

item 3916 isn't worth the gold anymore. they reduced the AP it offers AND increased the gold from 1500 to 1600. you're either buying item 3165 or you're not, and Katarina usually shouldn't be buying that.

Her itemizing is particularly bad and it doesn't work competitively. plus there are loads of other assassins that have much much smoother building paths and also have multiple viable build options and paths. (that's what competitively means)

VoraciousX2 votes

[{quoted}](name=ninja tabikat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wUxUQe97,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-03-15T19:29:36.134+0000)

I think she's a little worse than you realize. It's just a strong sense of running out of meaningful options in a lot of scenarios due to not having enough damage to compete in any given match She's kinda devolving into how old Kat used to work. jump in for an ult. or don't do anything at all. if you are doing good on her it's probably because you're getting loads of help from your teammates or you're just a much better player than your lane opponent.

item 3916 isn't worth the gold anymore. they reduced the AP it offers AND increased the gold from 1500 to 1600. you're either buying item 3165 or you're not, and Katarina usually shouldn't be buying that.

Her itemizing is particularly bad and it doesn't work competitively. plus there are loads of other assassins that have much much smoother building paths and also have multiple viable build options and paths. (that's what competitively means)

She has a 51% win rate on OP.GG and is building morellonomicon in her core, so I think you might be wrong in this situation. Oblivion orb was MEANT FOR AP ASSASSINS. The magic pen is the important part of the item, not the AP, and the AP was reduced by 5. Yeah it hurts, especially with the gold increase, but not enough to warrant not taking it. She isn't played in competitive unless she's OP because assassins in general aren't. They're more risky picks. You build the penetration earlier, and squishy health doesn't matter. I'm not saying I'm not feeling all the indirect nerfs(Kat seems to ALWAYS be the one hit with indirect nerfs constantly), but I think she's still alright. You just have to adapt to the changes. If you're having too much trouble, try going bot with her. I have around a 60% win rate in bot lane with Kat, according to my stats page, lol. Or I did anyways, now it's not showing cuz it's on 2019 stats.

[{quoted}](name=T2K Baka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wUxUQe97,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-15T21:53:52.979+0000)

Just revert her. People complain about her being braindead op champ with too much dmg. It doesnt matter in this season since everyone has the same amount of insane bs dmg. Everyone oneshots you now with this new rune system. Graves with the old DH walking up to u and autoing u wasn't braindead but katarina waiting for u to get low and then nuking ur team is? If you don't want revert on kat at least revert ludens. It doesn't need to give mana since mages have ROA, Tear, etc.

I'd much rather Kat not be reverted. She suffered way more in the early game than she does now, and her damage was lower pretty much across the board. As for reverting Ludens, I'd be all for it. I miss building it.

T2K Baka1 votes

{quoted}

She has a 51% win rate on OP.GG and is building morellonomicon in her core, so I think you might be wrong in this situation. Oblivion orb was MEANT FOR AP ASSASSINS. The magic pen is the important part of the item, not the AP, and the AP was reduced by 5. Yeah it hurts, especially with the gold increase, but not enough to warrant not taking it. She isn't played in competitive unless she's OP because assassins in general aren't. They're more risky picks. You build the penetration earlier, and squishy health doesn't matter. I'm not saying I'm not feeling all the indirect nerfs(Kat seems to ALWAYS be the one hit with indirect nerfs constantly), but I think she's still alright. You just have to adapt to the changes. If you're having too much trouble, try going bot with her. I have around a 60% win rate in bot lane with Kat, according to my stats page, lol. Or I did anyways, now it's not showing cuz it's on 2019 stats.

I'd much rather Kat not be reverted. She suffered way more in the early game than she does now, and her damage was lower pretty much across the board. As for reverting Ludens, I'd be all for it. I miss building it.

maybe not a full revert, just the w or the mark on q (tbh idk about this one), or some type of buff because i dont really consider the shunpo a "buff", sure the travel time is instant, but not being able to walk, aa, use abilities, for 0.15 might fk u over alot, especially if u need to use a reset to escape or go on to the next target for another reset, only for u to not be able to make it. I'd prefer the w revert.

VoraciousX3 votes

[{quoted}](name=T2K Baka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wUxUQe97,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-16T00:57:15.600+0000)

maybe not a full revert, just the w or the mark on q (tbh idk about this one), or some type of buff because i dont really consider the shunpo a "buff", sure the travel time is instant, but not being able to walk, aa, use abilities, for 0.15 might fk u over alot, especially if u need to use a reset to escape or go on to the next target for another reset, only for u to not be able to make it. I'd prefer the w revert.

I disagree with a W revert. W was placed on your passive, and to substitute for the removal of ward hops, her new W works quite well for going in and getting back out if you have no minions. You have to plan a bit ahead to use the new Kat obviously, but she's still really strong. There's only one thing I'd like on Kat now(especially since I realized they fixed the bug with her E not correctly auto attacking the target you E'd to):

A lower delay on dagger drops in late game. Not too much, but enough to make her not blow up if she's in the vicinity of anyone to do her combos. Late game you entirely have to rely on your W to make plays because if you go near an ADC you die before you have time to pull off your combos. Early game the dagger drop being lower is fine and may even be good, but late game I feel like it needs to be slightly shorter.

I don't think Kat's that bad off right now, and as I said, her win rate is over 51% on OP.GG so she can't be too bad off. The nerf to Oblivion Orb hurts though. I do feel that.

{quoted}

I remember seeing Scarra make that famous 1v5 play on old Katarina, where he waited right on the bush by bot lane for the enemy team to come around the corner and ulted them all and got a ton of damage and then just obliterated them - THAT's what got me into Katarina. However, now she doesn't do that. She relies entirely on item 3146 and her daggers, but her daggers don't do anything anymore and Gunblade is an unhealthy item for the game.

I see this so often and am amazed at how people believe this honestly. You don't NEED gunblade that badly. I don't even try to complete gunblade until I've spent 3750 gold on item 3145 item 3020 item 3916. These three items provide a much smoother power spike for Kat because item 3144 doesn't do much at all for Kat and costs almost as much as item 3916. I could rush Morellonomicon and probably still be fine. The only thing is you have to account for not healing from your abilities. The healing from item 3146 is amazing, but you can play without it, and it's the only REAL reason why it's so good on Kat. When Dark Harvest worked regardless of enemy health, I actually had a lot of fun and carried a lot of games with rushing item 3100 . Kat can work off of other items and item 3146 is not an item that will make her auto-lose from not having it. I might also add that Flyerbek at one time was rushing item 3152 and not getting item 3146 at all.

T2K Baka2 votes

{quoted}

I disagree with a W revert. W was placed on your passive, and to substitute for the removal of ward hops, her new W works quite well for going in and getting back out if you have no minions. You have to plan a bit ahead to use the new Kat obviously, but she's still really strong. There's only two things I'd like on Kat now(especially since I realized they fixed the bug with her E not correctly auto attacking the target you E'd to):

A lower delay on dagger drops in late game. Not too much, but enough to make her not blow up if she's in the vicinity of anyone to do her combos. Late game you entirely have to rely on your W to make plays because if you go near an ADC you die before you have time to pull off your combos. Early game the dagger drop being lower is fine and may even be good, but late game I feel like it needs to be slightly shorter.

I don't think Kat's that bad off right now, and as I said, her win rate is over 51% on OP.GG so she can't be too bad off. The nerf to Oblivion Orb hurts though. I do feel that.

hmmmm? The dagger drop time is probably the best, honestly. When u gotta wait for ur dagger to drop and the adc 2 aa u from far away kills u, sucks. But maybe on the w, since it gives decaying movement speed, it should make you ghosted for the time u have the bonus speed. That might help u early since u want to q e w and not get cockblocked by minons. You can trade better early.

VoraciousX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=T2K Baka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wUxUQe97,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-16T01:25:12.512+0000)

hmmmm? The dagger drop time is probably the best, honestly. When u gotta wait for ur dagger to drop and the adc 2 aa u from far away kills u, sucks. But maybe on the w, since it gives decaying movement speed, it should make you ghosted for the time u have the bonus speed. That might help u early since u want to q e w and not get cockblocked by minons. You can trade better early.

I meant one change, sorry it's fixed. The original second one was a fix on the bug on her E that caused you to walk to the one you last auto'd instead of the one you E'd to, but that's fixed.

aaaustindestroy13 votes

I remember seeing Scarra make that famous 1v5 play on old Katarina, where he waited right on the bush by bot lane for the enemy team to come around the corner and ulted them all and got a ton of damage and then just obliterated them - THAT's what got me into Katarina. However, now she doesn't do that. She relies entirely on item 3146 and her daggers, but her daggers don't do anything anymore and Gunblade is an unhealthy item for the game.

ConsentualCharm3 votes

Yes, I think dagger drop time would be really helpful. After all the nerfs to assassin's overall she deserves a revert on her voracity damage.

the whole "Base dagger damage reduced to 68 − 240 (based on level) from 75 − 287 (based on level)." feels a little overkill now that assassin's got hit in so many different ways. Disabled Summoner Spell

Meteora7072 votes

katarina and ahri: 55% wr

katarina and ahri mains: KATA AND AHRI ARE IN A BAD SPOT, BUFF PLEASE RITO

T2K Baka1 votes

Just revert her. People complain about her being braindead op champ with too much dmg. It doesnt matter in this season since everyone has the same amount of insane bs dmg. Everyone oneshots you now with this new rune system. Graves with the old DH walking up to u and autoing u wasn't braindead but katarina waiting for u to get low and then nuking ur team is? If you don't want revert on kat at least revert ludens. It doesn't need to give mana since mages have ROA, Tear, etc.

5050BS1 votes

No she is not at the top of the meta. Sit there and wait it out. TONS of other champs have been waiting it out for years.

ninja tabikat1 votes

the graphs on this say show that she's in a downward spiral.

Also, win rates don't really have any meaning when it comes to champion balance. I think Riot is quite aware of this as well.

Poske1 votes

Let me guess calls himself a katarina main yet maxes Q?

start maxing E you ll be better and** yes katarina needs buffs** but she prob wont get them due to smurfs abusing low elo

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