Lissandra's passive consumes Mana Band's free spell

Counting Geigers·Nov 10, 2017·241 votes·12,760 views

Not really a bug or a post about the balance of the rune or Lissandra, it just feels like a broken interaction to get jipped out of one of my free spells because both cooldowns were up at the same time.

This is my first time posting on this forum, and I didn't see like a general rune interaction thread but I guess if other people have bumped into things that they also feel just doesn't seem to be interacting correctly with the game, like stuff not going off, not counting/adding up right, bugs, etc. feel free to post them here as well.

81 Comments

PokladnicaZlaNov 10, 201745 votes

Seems kinda unfair to me. I know it would be a bit broken,since she wouldn't need to rush mana,but so many things are broken why not let her have this until they figure out a new passive?

Frozen DivaNov 10, 201714 votes

You are absolutely right.

CatastropNov 10, 20178 votes

Liss never rushes mana items anyway.

PokladnicaZlaNov 10, 20174 votes

Let's make Lissandra a mana mages that's like ˝Pff.Who needs to invest in mana? Hail the Watchers!˝

5000000000000000Nov 10, 20175 votes

Make Lissandra manaless 2018 ######kappa

RainbowIceeNov 10, 201712 votes

Liss has good scaling but her raw damage on the Q is kinda shit. So her getting 2 free spells every couple of seconds doesn't really break her. Some champs like Syndra can wipe the back line of a minion wave and harass at low mana cost. Give lissandra a bone.

RiotRiot MapleNectarNov 11, 201740 votes

Hey there! Sorry I'm super behind on this thread. This bug was found just after we cut the branch and we hadn't been able to get it in for live fast enough. The fix for this is going out in 7.23! same thing for Nunu

FairyfleurNov 11, 20173 votes

[sg-kiko]

FlashnFuseNov 11, 201713 votes

Is it possible to look at Quinn's interaction with manaflow band? She consumes it by spawning into taxi form post-6 after dying. Thanks!

RiotRiot MapleNectarNov 11, 20177 votes

Does this happen 100% of the time?

FlashnFuseNov 11, 20175 votes

Yes! But ONLY if she has a point in her ultimate ability.

Bombastic SlugNov 12, 20171 votes

Please don't change this interaction! Nobody is understanding that although it consumes both, it spends 0 mana while the full cost of the spell is returned along with the 8%. All other champs just get the spell refunded with the 8%. Yes, it does nothing when at full mana, but it gives Lissandra the unique ability to cast 3/4 abilities from almost 0 mana.

Let's say I have 62 mana at level 6. I cast a Q and my mana increases to 185. I can then cast both E and R immediately. This is the cost (85) + 8% of my missing mana (38). If it worked the other way I would cast Q at 62 mana for free, then at most I can cast W which would be free and return (38) mana, allowing one more cast of an ability. At lower than 50 mana I couldn't cast anything immediately because manaflow does not allow a free spellcast, it allows for the cost of a regular cast to be refunded.

I believe the current interaction is the best for Lissandra. Consuming both may feel a little weird at full mana, but this allows Lissandra's otherwise passive and especially high mana costs to be used in a way unique to the champion.

ThefrostyvikingNov 10, 201728 votes

Yeah there was a thread that was on this as well, it's fairly depressing that Riot saw fit to make lissandra's actual passive into a rune accessible to every single champ in the game.

And not let her get any benefit outa stacking the two.

CatastropNov 10, 201713 votes

I honestly did not think of it this way, and now that you pointed it out, I'm pissed af.

ThefrostyvikingNov 10, 20177 votes

Well to be fair it's not surprising that it got through the PBE, they had a ton of stuff to go through.

And hardly anyone actually plays Lissandra, i can only imagine it's much more so on the PBE itself too.

But it still seems so strange somehow, if the guys who made the rune in the first place didn't think about Lissandra at all (since it was obviously not tested by them) then does that mean that Riot themselves have forgotten the champion?

I am a tad bit worried about the subject of how they go from creating ideas to implementing them and seemingly not testing them at all ,c

DessemNov 10, 20172 votes

I didn't mention it, because I don't want to use the rune on her anyway. Ultimate Hat is much better for Lissandra, imo, since ult uptime is so important for her winning her battles.

The thing about Lissandra's Passive is also that if she didn't have it, she wouldn't need Mana Band: Lissandra pays for her Passive with low base Mana, low base Mana regen and high Mana costs. When they explored an alternate Passive, they also buffed her Mana costs, regen and pool to make up for the loss of the Passive.

I wouldn't have a good, enrichening idea to replace current Passive with, though.

MagearnaNov 11, 20171 votes

Just throwing this out there, they could go something along the lines of Veigar where if she impairs a champion with one of her spells (such as her Q/R Slowing or her E/R stunning), she could gain 3 Mana if they want to keep the Mana part of her passive connected to her. Not the best passive, but just something I thought of after reading your comment.

Blackstone01Nov 10, 20177 votes

To be fair Veigar's % mana regen was a mastery for quite awhile.

Starcraft243verNov 10, 20176 votes

If something is free twice, it doesnt make it freer than free.

Deez CritsNov 10, 20173 votes

That's exactly the issue. The two effects should not be applied at the same time and the only way this would be acceptable is if they actually put a debuff for mana band being on cooldown (which they should actually implement regardless).

Right now, you get penalized for having the buffs up at the same time.

Also, if nothing is freer than free, something being "free twice" doesn't exist, does it? It shouldn't, much like how both passives shouldn't apply to the same spell.

TwinkieProNov 10, 20173 votes

{quoted}

If something is free twice, it doesnt make it freer than free.

If an ice cream shop is giving out free small ice creams every minute and you also use your coupon for a free small icecream at the same time, is it worth it?

hint, its not.

OwynNov 10, 20178 votes

If an ice cream shop is giving out free small ice creams every minute and you also use your coupon for a free small icecream at the same time, is it worth it?

and you pay with your coupon for that one minute free icecream getting 1 icecream in total... good deal [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

SamBunzlyNov 10, 20177 votes

Free ice cream first. 20 seconds later. "i have a coupon" [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

TwinkieProNov 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

and you pay with your coupon for that one minute free icecream getting 1 icecream in total... good deal [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

I have no idea why everyone is downvoting me when I'm literally agreeing with what you said. Maybe i Should edit it for more clarity...

it actually might be good to point out that I was replying to someone else, but this new format makes it pretty difficult to discern that without quotes.

Poop JellyNov 10, 20172 votes

But it does stack. If someone treats you for lunch, and another friend treats you for dinner, you get both lunch and dinner for free!

corrupto678Nov 10, 20174 votes

but what if 2 people want to buy you lunch at the same time but you can't eat both of them. just like here

Poop JellyNov 11, 20171 votes

But why two things in the first place when it yields the result of one? The better solution would be spread it out to maximizing the benefitting result!

p.s: Riot already comment but I STILL LIKE TO REBUT BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS BEEN MY 37th DREAM TO BE ON A DEBATE TEAM :D

Hello I am BirdNov 11, 20171 votes

What were your other 36 dreams?

LordGeovanniNov 11, 20171 votes

except that in this example lissandra does eat both lunches' aka consume both free spell uses.

Frozen DivaNov 10, 20175 votes

I see Lissandra posts as hot topics every day. Yet Riot does not answer to ANY of them and we can keep on dreaming about some Lissandra changes. Some people write she is not popular enough to be worked on. That's nonsense. Obviously people do care a lot about her. She has some problems. Solve them and she will have a solid player base. Like... is it so hard to understand?

ShinjrouNov 10, 20173 votes

If someone at least said something like "Yeah we are trying to think on a new passive for her", nope they just ignore us and only respond to butt-licking posts. That's why I said we were going in war with rito.

@GIVELISSANDRAAPASSIVE

Maligaro SpikeNov 10, 20171 votes

Riot is working only on balancing pre season right now, looks at the next patch that is basically going to have only new champ and few changes, also i think they might give her a small rework instead of just changing passive

Hello I am BirdNov 11, 20171 votes

Hey, so for your profile picture, is it FEK that does that, or are there special summoner icons that I just haven't seen?

It feels like there are so many people that have those now

Maligaro SpikeNov 12, 20171 votes

you mean the mf one? You can get it in the special store that's open until 28th november

SirΤeemοNov 10, 20174 votes

not fair? her Q needs 80 mana on level 1 and she has 220 mana

DessemNov 10, 20172 votes

That's to pay for the Passive. When they explored a replacement they also buffed Mana costs, base and regen on her. Lissandra's not in a position where she needs her Passive to afford casting her spells, she's in a position where Riot keep her costs high and base stats low to avoid her pool becoming practically endless.

Was the same thing with Veigar.

If Lissandra's passive goes, she should have the penalties taken away and be given actual mage-level base stats for Mana management. Not too long ago, she had base Mana regen rivalled by Taric... who has the lowest.

Trias000Nov 10, 20173 votes

That's great. Not only Lissandra's passive is lackluster, it also has shitty interactions - first with Rod of Ages' passive (the free spell doesn't heal you), now with this rune.

Trias000Nov 11, 20171 votes

At least the upside is that Lissandra probably wouldn't want that mastery anyway. The other two choices seem much better. The ultimate hat - because she relies heavily on her ultimate. And nullifying orb for some tough matchups against long-ranged mages. Also, she might prefer to pick sorcery as her secondary path and dominion as primary, because the arcane comet is too easy to dodge. So you need to cc someone for it to land, and if you do, that means you're close enough to them to use those additional 2 spells/autos to proc electrocute. And if you pick sorcery as secondary, then trancendence is also probably better, because Liss likes a lot of cdr. And then you might also pick scorch for extra poke, waterwalking for roaming, or gathering storm for better late game (although the games are quite snowbally right now and late game is quite unlikely).

alekzuNov 10, 20172 votes

In another thread I mentioned that I reported it as a bug during pbe testing. I first made a thread to collect thoughts what people think about it but I only got 1 reply to report it as a bug simply because no one plays Liss.( and to be honest I just see now that people are unhappy how it works but it's a bit too late I am afraid :/ ) Now whether that was left because it's intended interaction or the balance team doesn't care is something we don't know and that's because I decided to use the launcher's form for bug reports. If I used the boards instead to report it we probably would've gotten a reply from a Rioter. Well lesson is learnt :)

Azon73Nov 10, 20172 votes

it has to be a bug, in a similar instance when I use two spell shields i.e. malz passive and banshees, they don't both pop at the same time no reason this should be different

Ez dePazNov 10, 20172 votes

Malz Passive isn't technically a spell shield, it's a 90% dmg redution and CC immunity for 0.25 sec which triggers when taking dmg or being CCd. It's practically a spell shield.

EeyoreNov 10, 20172 votes

So does Nunu's innate.

Technically it still refunds the cost of the "free" spell - so you don't pay anything, but still get like 100 mana back.

It's only annoying when you do it at full mana and have no room for the free mana.

rtbf225618241Nov 11, 20171 votes

So basically with this...she literally has no passive.

Talk about unloved champions...she's like the new Yorick now.

BârdNov 11, 20171 votes

Yorick has a passive. It's mediocre, but very much there.

rtbf225618241Nov 11, 20171 votes

I meant about being unloved not the passive.

CarnleyNov 12, 20171 votes

I'm pretty sure they gave lissandra the passive she currently she has because they didn't want to pack any more power into the kit. Compare her to many of the other season 3 mages and it would be obvious that even giving her a strong passive would have pushed her over the top.

But yeah it's a little outdated now.

rtbf225618241Nov 12, 20171 votes

I don't know..her W never seemed to do any sort of damage at all without being fed.

Then again, it's not like you can get hugely rewarded for such an easy to land ability but...well being that close is sometimes a risk and sometimes it's not.

Personally, i feel some of her stuff should get reworked. I like her Q above all though.