Revert Phantom Dancer to what it was

Mangled Clown·Feb 7, 2019·1 votes·1,908 views

New Phantom Dancer is dog shit the spell shield doesn't save anything it's not even as good as Maw or Steraks and you guys literally gutted it by reducing the attack speed, crit chance and the ability to go through minions it's not even a unique item anymore it's a pile of trash that can't own up to being anything like Maw or Steraks also 100g less then old Phantom Dancer is a bigger insult cause for 100g more you could have more attack speed, crit, surviviability if you want to make a spellshield for adcs make a new item stop ruining the only decent items

16 Comments

ParoeFeb 7, 20196 votes

Err... Your reading comprehension might need some working on.

They changed the death defied because melee crit champions were easily abusing it. Mainly Yasuo. They also reduced crit because they added crit to other items. PD still HAS its movement speed and ghost; its arguably much stronger because those two effects are now on attack instead of in range.

Mangled ClownFeb 7, 20191 votes

The only 2 champions that built it were Trynd and Yasuo no one else built PD unless it was situational PD was their better choice cause of their kit Trynd builds Tiamat and Yas E Q clears an entire wave with statik and they said they wanted to give ADC's a better chance at surviving which the change to Phantom Dancer will not do at all

ParoeFeb 7, 20196 votes

{quoted}

The only 2 champions that built it were Trynd and Yasuo no one else built PD unless it was situational PD was their better choice cause of their kit Trynd builds Tiamat and Yas E Q clears an entire wave with statik and they said they wanted to give ADC's a better chance at surviving which the change to Phantom Dancer will not do at all

And yet phantom dancer is a crit item, and crit items are explicitly marksman itemization much like armor penetration is explicitly assassin itemization. They made phantom dancer more accessable for ALL CRIT USERS, not just a melee-crit item. Further, the new PD is not, to my knowledge, a spell shield. Its a 600 damage regular shield that triggers when youre on low HP. Its a marksman steraks.

Mangled ClownFeb 7, 20191 votes

Yet they made 2 melee champions that are reliant on Crit and even nerf'd one specifically so he had to build crit and again the shield is dog shit it either needs to be buffed or reverted Steraks and Maw provide much more to the table then new PD old PD brought a lot more to the table then the new one and it's 100g more i would rather spend 100g to have +15% more attack speed, 10% more crit chance and damage reduction in duels then get some trash shield the fact they made it 100g cheaper with all that they nerf'd on it is laughable and I looked at your past boards history buddy you think Tanks are weak right now... But Bramble and Ninja tabi on a tank will out damage a ad champion with 2 complete damage items even if they are the same level and have conqueror

ParoeFeb 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yet they made 2 melee champions that are reliant on Crit and even nerf'd one specifically so he had to build crit and again the shield is dog shit it either needs to be buffed or reverted Steraks and Maw provide much more to the table then new PD old PD brought a lot more to the table then the new one and it's 100g more i would rather spend 100g to have +15% more attack speed, 10% more crit chance and damage reduction in duels then get some trash shield the fact they made it 100g cheaper with all that they nerf'd on it is laughable and I looked at your past boards history buddy you think Tanks are weak right now... But Bramble and Ninja tabi on a tank will out damage a ad champion with 2 complete damage items even if they are the same level and have conqueror

Youre delusional if you think bramble+tabi will out damage an AD champion with similar gold investment, let alone an AD champion with conq. active.

There are two melee crit champions in the game. Tryndamere and Yasuo. Both of them are manaless. Both of them have strong defenses. Both of them have strong dueling. Both of them have strong crit scaling. Both of them have a great deal of free stats. Both of them are mobile. Both of them have powerful steroids. Both of them have thousands of gold in free stats to make up for the fact that theyre melee champions. They do not need entire items built for them. They are strong without a special item that gives damage reduction and ghost just for being in range.

While you mentioned it, tanks are in a place where unless they scale extremely well or have very supportive kits they arent capable unless ahead. A tank who goes even is a tank behind, as the saying goes. You fix this by keeping tanks stats in the same place and simply reducing their obscenely high combine costs to get their total cost down 2600g, as offense outscales defense... A tank should be strongest in the mid game, and should reach their mid-game faster than offense classes so they have a chance to function properly before offense classes can destroy them.

Mangled ClownFeb 8, 20191 votes

Yasuo has the lowest resistances out of the entire fighter class as a whole
Bramble and Tabi would destroy any melee ad champion with those 2 alone even with conq active
Yes they have good dueling but they are both also very easily shut down and made irrelevant into the game
any crit champion has strong crit scaling because that is what they specialize in other wise they might as well be bruisers oh wait Yasuo tried that and they made his ult passive not work unless he built crit my b m8
They need the mobility because they both have low base hp and resistances in comparison to other fighters and their whole niche is being in someones face in order to deal damage
Tanks are strong in the current meta it literally takes Conq + Last whisper + Black clever to even bring them down and there is always a tank meta in every season cause people like you cry that they are too weak then they get over buffed + other champions get nerf'd to the ground technically making it a double buff for tanks
Their item cost is already low compared to AD champions the lowest damage item is Long sword which is 350 cloth armor is 300 the lowest upgrade for ad is Vampiric scepter, while tanks have Bramble 1k, Wardens mail 1k, chain vest 800g, bami's 900g, other then that other ad items are 1300+ just as a stand-alone item not even completed
You can try and argue that Yasuo's wind wall is a good defense but it has a 25 second cool down and on top of that it's the only thing that helps him survive aside from his way of the wind passive

ParoeFeb 9, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo has the lowest resistances out of the entire fighter class as a whole

And an 800 health shield that he can hold forever.

Bramble and Tabi would destroy any melee ad champion with those 2 alone even with conq active

Against an AD champion with similar gold investment, no, it doesnt.

Yes they have good dueling but they are both also very easily shut down and made irrelevant into the game

Until they get two items and begin to function. You underestimate how strong crit IS.

any crit champion has strong crit scaling because that is what they specialize in other wise they might as well be bruisers oh wait Yasuo tried that and they made his ult passive not work unless he built crit my b m8

What are you even saying here? Not all crit champions have crit scaling or even utilize crit properly, theyre simply marksmen.

They need the mobility because they both have low base hp and resistances in comparison to other fighters and their whole niche is being in someones face in order to deal damage

You realize that they have over 2200 base HP, right? And that their armor resistance increases by level?

Tanks are strong in the current meta it literally takes Conq + Last whisper + Black clever to even bring them down and there is always a tank meta in every season cause people like you cry that they are too weak then they get over buffed + other champions get nerf'd to the ground technically making it a double buff for tanks

You really need to stop drinking to koolaid. Yes a tank with sunfire+tabi+thornmail will take a lot to kill 1v1, but an AD champion with similar gold investment will ALWAYS WIN.

Their item cost is already low compared to AD champions the lowest damage item is Long sword which is 350 cloth armor is 300 the lowest upgrade for ad is Vampiric scepter, while tanks have Bramble 1k, Wardens mail 1k, chain vest 800g, bami's 900g, other then that other ad items are 1300+ just as a stand-alone item not even completed

Marksmen itemization is once again the cheapest in the game bar none for its damage:cost ratio, and is double multiplicative. To be honest i dont even understand why youre talking about component items. Nobody uses components as a metric.

You can try and argue that Yasuo's wind wall is a good defense but it has a 25 second cool down and on top of that it's the only thing that helps him survive aside from his way of the wind passive

Yasuos wind wall invalidates any and all projectiles. It is one of the strongest defensive tools in the game and can be used as a panic button due to wonky hitbox mechanics.

ZephyrDrakeFeb 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Err... Your reading comprehension might need some working on.

They changed the death defied because melee crit champions were easily abusing it. Mainly Yasuo. They also reduced crit because they added crit to other items. PD still HAS its movement speed and ghost; its arguably much stronger because those two effects are now on attack instead of in range.

oh yeah, reaching 100% crit chance with 4 items instead of 3... that sure is a buff to crit builds. PD is better now but reducing crit chance just because "they added more crit to other items" is laughable and just makes crit builds be even more useless than they were previously

MoonscourgeFeb 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

oh yeah, reaching 100% crit chance with 4 items instead of 3... that sure is a buff to crit builds. PD is better now but reducing crit chance just because "they added more crit to other items" is laughable and just makes crit builds be even more useless than they were previously

You're aware that IE once again increases crit damage, right? Old builds used to cap at 80%, wasn't an issue before either. Upfront burst is down intentionally to bring marksmen back to being a DPS class and at the very least they no longer have to rush an useless item like Stormrazor that anti-scaled as they bought more crit chance, since the first crit deals reduced damage and does absolutely nothing for them once they have more of that stat anyway.

ZephyrDrakeFeb 7, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wEjnKBGK,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-07T07:21:54.368+0000)

You're aware that IE once again increases crit damage, right? Old builds used to cap at 80%, wasn't an issue before either. Upfront burst is down intentionally to bring marksmen back to being a DPS class and at the very least they no longer have to rush an useless item like Stormrazor that anti-scaled as they bought more crit chance, since the first crit deals reduced damage and does absolutely nothing for them once they have more of that stat anyway.

you are aware that the increase is pathetic right? it's half of what it used to be and it quite frankly is just worst. Yay they got back a one item powerspike that is worst than the one we had before! then we get a 2 item powerspike that isn't more or less the same! then a 3 item powerspike that is worst and it just goes downhill afterwards. So congrats on achieving nothing with crit builds other than giving them a shield... maybe Ashe and Xayah would actually be better with ER back for them for every other crit user? nah, I don't see at all how this is even a neutral change and just a flat out nerf to a class that already was in a terrible spot

MoonscourgeFeb 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

you are aware that the increase is pathetic right? it's half of what it used to be and it quite frankly is just worst. Yay they got back a one item powerspike that is worst than the one we had before! then we get a 2 item powerspike that isn't more or less the same! then a 3 item powerspike that is worst and it just goes downhill afterwards. So congrats on achieving nothing with crit builds other than giving them a shield... maybe Ashe and Xayah would actually be better with ER back for them for every other crit user? nah, I don't see at all how this is even a neutral change and just a flat out nerf to a class that already was in a terrible spot

ADC is NOT in a terrible spot and it just got better again. Razor is a shit item, thanks for ignoring that part of my post because it would completely discredit whatever garbage you're spouting here. Marksmen were far too powerful before they first reworked IE and now they're lowering its power to bring the rest of the items back.

PD is a great defensive choice that didn't exist before. Bruisers and other champions get to build Hexdrinker freely and abuse it, ADCs couldn't do it before. They now have a STRONG defensive option while not delaying their main buys (Crit chance and AD)

ZephyrDrakeFeb 7, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake of Avarice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wEjnKBGK,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-07T12:52:47.027+0000)

ADC is NOT in a terrible spot and it just got better again. Razor is a shit item, thanks for ignoring that part of my post because it would completely discredit whatever garbage you're spouting here. Marksmen were far too powerful before they first reworked IE and now they're lowering its power to bring the rest of the items back.

PD is a great defensive choice that didn't exist before. Bruisers and other champions get to build Hexdrinker freely and abuse it, ADCs couldn't do it before. They now have a STRONG defensive option while not delaying their main buys (Crit chance and AD)

Typical ADC hater. Sorry but stormrazor was a great 1 item powerspike that actually allowed you to be somebody until you got your items. Now with the change, you are getting worst powerspikes all throughout the game with less build variety to boot!

Even if we go the "stormrazor is garbage" route, you were getting your main powerspike sooner than we currently do. Two item powerspikes without stormrazor involved are essentially the same with 1 item powerspike being better IF you didn't go stormrazor before with every single other spike being just worst. You even lost one whole item slot when compared to before, so builds are less flexible. But whatever, nerf the class of champions that was struggling instead of doing anything positive with it. Keep the non crit ADCs the same so they still remain the best picks.

ParoeFeb 7, 20191 votes

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Typical ADC hater. Sorry but stormrazor was a great 1 item powerspike that actually allowed you to be somebody until you got your items. Now with the change, you are getting worst powerspikes all throughout the game with less build variety to boot!

Even if we go the "stormrazor is garbage" route, you were getting your main powerspike sooner than we currently do. Two item powerspikes without stormrazor involved are essentially the same with 1 item powerspike being better IF you didn't go stormrazor before with every single other spike being just worst. You even lost one whole item slot when compared to before, so builds are less flexible. But whatever, nerf the class of champions that was struggling instead of doing anything positive with it. Keep the non crit ADCs the same so they still remain the best picks.

Actually, BF sword into zeal item was the better start. It was before, and it is again. The only reason storm razor was ever picked up over BF sword+zeal was because marksmen mains were so used to being strong from the onset that when riot added a NEW item they latched onto it. Before the last round of itemization changes marksmen were VERY strong, and began to hit their late-game at ~6000g due to their incredible item-based scaling. It was obscene, so they were nerfed.

And youre right that marksmen lost an item slot, they went from a 2 item core to a 4 item core and suffered greatly for it. Crit needed changes for sure because marksmen had bad gamefeel despite being very strong, but riot reverted much of the changes that were healthy instead of simply addressing the issue.

ParoeFeb 7, 20193 votes

{quoted}

oh yeah, reaching 100% crit chance with 4 items instead of 3... that sure is a buff to crit builds. PD is better now but reducing crit chance just because "they added more crit to other items" is laughable and just makes crit builds be even more useless than they were previously

You, person, are an individual who is never happy with anything and will bitch and moan regardless of the change.

What riot has done is what they have with every failed rework they have not let wallow; They have reverted it, but made it less. Have you forgotten that crit items used to have 25% crit? Have you forgotten that the usual build used to be IE into zeal? Have you forgotten just how POWERFUL marksmen are when they have the cheapest, most powerful itemization in the game bar none?

Regardless, PD is not a bad item, its less abusable by melee champions and much more powerful for marksmen (who are the intended users of crit itemization). It will also find a place in immobile onhit or dps builds.