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Why Frost Queens Claim is Overpowered

KugelKopf·Dec 25, 2015·7 votes·2,291 views

Greetings Summoners, I like nearly everything about the preseason but 1 thing really destorys fun in my opinion: Support item Frot Queens Claim. I think a 4 Second Slow is way too much for League of Legends. A few Years ago they nerfed Rammus cause a 3 Second Taunt was already too much. Now we have a support item That is so good that even Mid-Laners build it. 1500 Range,40% slow x2 and here comes the, in my opinion overpowered part: Not Dodgeable. You have to be lucky not to get hit by one. staying 1500 Units away from the enamy is also not always possible because thats quiet alot. A 60 Second cooldown for a potentually winning Teamfight item is crazy. Ive already won and lost games just because a ghost caught someone offguard. And there is nothing you can do about it, just if your name is SIvir or Morgana. In My opinion it needs to be a 3 Second slow at maximum and at least 90 or 120 Second cooldown. Its a Support item... and when Mid-Laners build a support item i think something has gone wrong. Some Pros ive been seeing streaming also build it one champs like Thresh who have no synergy with it usually but the effect is too strong. I wanna hear your opinions guys... what do you think about this item?

26 Comments

alfavhunterDec 25, 20152 votes

It's not op, it's just to effective for solo laners because of how bad ap items are right now

Simple fix is to cut off the mana regen as well when the gold income aspect is on CD of not being useable because you killed a minion and mid laners won't buy it because they get no mana regen because they are killing minions

Nanuk PihoqahiakDec 25, 20152 votes

You can't really cut the mana regeneration because a lot of supports need it to lane.

The biggest offender here is that Riot severely hampered vision. Guess what Frost Queen's Claim provides?

LF AnnieDec 25, 20152 votes

you dont seem to understand his idea, he means when FQQ is off cause u killed a minion, so should the mana regen go, and when it is back again, after the minion death timer, you get the regen back.

Nanuk PihoqahiakDec 26, 20151 votes

I understand that. Even incidentally killing minions cutting a support's mana regeneration briefly is silly. The only reason it rose up this season as opposed to last season is BECAUSE of the ghosts being attached to it in an environment where wards are no longer plentiful.

LF AnnieDec 26, 20151 votes

if you cut the regen, its effectiveness while farming is harmed, but supports not farming are unnaffected mostly.

Nanuk PihoqahiakDec 26, 20151 votes

Reread what I said. "Incidentally." As in supports that kill minions due to the nature of their harass.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 25, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nanuk Pihoqahiak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wBm0HAAr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-12-25T20:56:52.530+0000)

You can't really cut the mana regeneration because a lot of supports need it to lane.

guess what's happening in the next patch

welp poke support players, we had 3 patches, that's something.

RozzetaDec 26, 20151 votes

I was actually taking screenshots in Sona games, in order to remind the good times that were bound to not last.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I was actually taking screenshots in Sona games, in order to remind the good times that were bound to not last.

good plan, why didn't I think of that

YrzenDec 25, 20151 votes

That wouldn't really make much sense, as it would punish the player, Support and otherwise, for playing well.

I never liked the old passive. It made it not even worth upgrading, and the new one fills in the hole left by the old Twin Shadows. Granted, Frost Queen's Claim is better than Twin Shadows, but it isn't op either.

Frost Queen's Claim is the only AP item that gives 10% cdr that is viable on just about every mage and one of the few that have an active that can be used offensively. The only other offensive AP actives available are Zhonya's (For things like Morgana and Fiddlesticks only) and Hextech Gunblade, which is highly situational.

It is because of how bad AP itemization is right now, but that fix wouldn't cut it. If a nerf is necessary, I'd prefer one closer to what the op suggests.

This is coming from someone who always opts for eyestones. :P

Except Janna, who I use Talisman on anyway.

Dominick DestineDec 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It is because of how bad AP itemization is right now

Bingo.

It's not that Frost Queen's Claim is too good overall.... it's that the alternatives are pure garbage ; They've been nerfed so many times and so hard that FQC became very attractive by virtue of not being garbage. It's a symptom of a greater problem, shit AP itemization.

Posui GartDec 25, 20152 votes

Remove slow, add 1 more spirit, disable both gold passives on minion kills for item 3303 / item 3098 .

Chrome RavenDec 25, 20152 votes

made a post about this item being overpowered got downvoted. lvoe you guys :)

Aeolian MelodiesDec 25, 20152 votes

You are comparing a item that provides soft CC to a champion's basic ability that provides hard CC. Don't do that. Besides, they're already nerfing its active's slow in the next patch (and its mana regen for no valid reason at all).

For the most part it is balanced for supports; it becomes an issue when people have it on other roles. Just disable tribute on FQC for killing creeps, and suddenly it is a lot less attractive. Also make mage mana regen items less crappy so that their best option doesn't become the support item.

ZarkkastDec 25, 20152 votes

It should be a decaying slow.

RozzetaDec 26, 20152 votes

It's a relatively cheap item -in the time AP itemization cost got increased, efectively nullifying the gold increase this season-, which provides 10% CDR - in the time were CDR options are few for mages not wanting to overkill mana regeneration for 3k a piece-, and an active which reveals nearby targets - in the time Riot destroyed vision as we knew it-. Not OP, just goes well against the stuff Riot did to mid lane mages with few escapes.

Loli LuluDec 25, 20151 votes

I think disabling the passive when a minion is killed is a step in the right direction. Riot should start with that nerf and look at how things go.

I kind of like the 4 second duration and semi-spammability (since I like the secondary revealing effect, which is very useful with the lack of invisibility detection.)

One further compromise I can think of is perhaps a decaying slow, or make the slow somehow based on distance traveled by the ghosts before reaching their targets. A little Mana Regen nerf wouldn't be horrible either, if need be.

It finally feels rewarding to build Frost Queen on supports, I'd hate for it to get overly nerfed because mid-laners are using it.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 25, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loli Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wBm0HAAr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-25T21:07:18.641+0000) , or make the slow somehow based on distance traveled by the ghosts before reaching their targets. A little Mana Regen nerf wouldn't be horrible either, if need be.

They're doing just that.

I'm pissed that they'd hit the mana regen. Now I gotta buy another mana regen as Sona for the sole purpose of not being useless after 2 spell rotations.

The DeckownerDec 25, 20151 votes

a midlaner with frost queen=ungankable, i hate wasting lots of my time going to mid lane and see a fucking ghost pop on my face.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wBm0HAAr,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-12-25T21:49:00.635+0000)

a midlaner with frost queen=ungankable, i hate wasting lots of my time going to mid lane and see a fucking ghost pop on my face.

try and gank them more than once every minute

and/or with a jungler that doesn't get deterred by a slow

The DeckownerDec 25, 20151 votes

once u are detected the midlaner will just play safe and sit far back for awhile, not much u can do.

SlashStrikerDec 25, 20151 votes

item 3116

Mister MackeyDec 25, 20151 votes

So twin shadows wasnt OP but frost queen is because of them having the EXACT SAME active?

Cut out the mana regen and mid laners wont build it, doesn't need any further nerf than that.

Sightless66Dec 26, 20152 votes

It's not the exact same active. Twin shadows didn't slow for 4 seconds. It slowed for 2.5 seconds. It still does slow for 2.5 seconds on the maps where you can buy it.

Aeolian MelodiesDec 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It's not the exact same active. Twin shadows didn't slow for 4 seconds. It slowed for 2.5 seconds. It still does slow for 2.5 seconds on the maps where you can buy it.

TS`s ghosts returned to you for reduced CD if they failed to find a target though. Also the item itself gave more stats. It was a 80 ap item which was nice for having a supportive active, topped with CDR and MS.

Sightless66Dec 26, 20153 votes

The active was 2 minutes if the ghosts hit targets, the slow duration was lower, and the item was less gold efficient than FQC even without taking into account FQC's gold generation passive. There are lots of complaints about FQC and its role that don't apply to Twin Shadows. That's the only point I'm making here.

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