Hexdrinker = broken early game tool to help you reach late game while still winning trades AND lane https://imgur.com/a/Z6UlGqc Why are some of you speaking as if i have no idea what i'm talking about because you think i play ap champs`only?
Clutch Thompson38 votesAgreed- it’s value is incredible. Especially vs a class that typically is reliant on ability rotations, which have sporadic uptime since they’re restricted by cooldowns. You can catch a he drinker user and blow your load but not kill them while losing your kill pressure because you blew your cool downs
Xenos0055 votesExactly ^
ktjnkk27 votesGeneric ap opressor: https://imgur.com/CKu8uoR Lol you're probably just a katarina player crying about hexdrinker shutting you down xd https://imgur.com/qKBXpmD Checks op.gg TRAITORRRR
lolipopevelynn13 votesIve been saying this for multiple seasons now. You shouldn't get the shield till after fully completing maw
Noor Sakata9 votestbh Yeah , when I first timed Zed in a normal , I was laning against Lux , I rushed this item , pressed R , missed all q , spammed e and auto attacked and kill her while I was watching her hitting me with her full combo twice
Light Burner5 votes[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9M9uWaJ,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-07-20T18:25:17.660+0000)
tbh Yeah , when I first timed Zed in a normal , I was laning against Lux , I rushed this item , pressed R , missed all q , spammed e and auto attacked and kill her while I was watching her hitting me with her full combo twice
Yea it must be because hexdrinker is broken and not because the lux player was terribad for not just snaring you and walking away or using her W to shield herself instead of trading autos with you for hours. And you know hourglass or stopwatch isnt a thing. Typical bad player complaint.
Noor Sakata3 votes[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9M9uWaJ,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2018-07-20T19:56:01.325+0000)
Yea it must be because hexdrinker is broken and not because the lux player was terribad for not just snaring you and walking away or using her W to shield herself instead of trading autos with you for hours. And you know hourglass or stopwatch isnt a thing. Typical bad player complaint.
I already mentioned that I got hit by her full combo , triggered ?
Light Burner1 votes[{quoted}](name=Noor Sakata,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9M9uWaJ,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2018-07-20T20:52:21.091+0000)
I already mentioned that I got hit by her full combo , triggered ?
What does that even mean? Because you got hit by her full combo and survived because you counter built that means the item is broken? what would be the point of counterbuilding if you get popped by getting hit by a full combo? Why not just build glass cannon then? What i was saying was if the lux player was trying to assassinate an assassin she was a bad player for fighting you during your ult duration, but you know you're too busy trying to throrw a typical "triggered" comment in instead of using your brain.
Noor Sakata1 votes[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9M9uWaJ,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-22T04:35:28.766+0000)
What does that even mean? Because you got hit by her full combo and survived because you counter built that means the item is broken? what would be the point of counterbuilding if you get popped by getting hit by a full combo? Why not just build glass cannon then? What i was saying was if the lux player was trying to assassinate an assassin she was a bad player for fighting you during your ult duration, but you know you're too busy trying to throrw a typical "triggered" comment in instead of using your brain.
you are the one who is supposed to use that brain ,I said I got hit by full combo twice , that item is no longer just a counter item , it's broken for a 1300 Gold item , the Lux player is surely not bad for following me when I'm 10% HP , I was the bad player there yet I still killed her with missing all Shurinkens.
Mykedejong1 votesmust be one blind of a lux to miss all her spells and die to you if you missed all that.
Demented Gag9 votesCan we please stop exaggerating?
SugeMinPikk8 votesBuilding hex delays core items for the sake of safety.
Xenos00527 votesNever had an experience like that. Are you sure you're not rushing 
instead of sitting on the most broken 1300 gold item in the game?
SugeMinPikk9 votesYou've had an experience like that literally every single time you've built hex. You delay your core items by 1300g.
Some champions would rather spend that on a dirk, or berz grieves 
Fízz v211 votes1300 isnt much of a delay considering that it still almost gives as much AD as a dirk tho. Theres really no AP item that even comes close and idk why. Riot said its so broken because it helps melee assassins vs ranged mages, but 1) melee AP champs exist and 2) all AD champs can buy it, not just assassins.
ktjnkk18 votesNot if he shuts down the enemy laner so hard he gets 7/0 and 12cspm https://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FCKu8uoRs.png&key=f0abbd34f14549f3a15cd94dd9970851&width=150
La Bello8 votesI think the shield it provides should get cut in half.
Illabethe1 votesIt kind of did recently..... It used to give 200-300 +100% of Bonus Magic Resist.
Now it gives a flat 250-350.
If you were building magic resist, that gave you a MUCH larger shield.
FutureCreator2 votesHexdrinker never scaled with MR though, it was always a flat shield.
Baval1 votesYeah, but if youre building MR you dont really need it, and if youre not building MR its a huge buff. So its a buff pretending to be a nerf, Riots latest trend.
Edit: or it would be except youre lying, it never scaled with magic resist. Its full patch history:
V7.4
Bug Fix: The larger sphere from the passive buff now appears in the appropriate location.
V5.22
Combine cost reduced to Gold 500 from Gold 665.
Total cost reduced to Gold 1300 from Gold 1450.
Attack damage reduced to 20 from 25.
Magic resistance increased to 35 from 30.
Shield strength changed to 110 - 280 (based on level) from 250 at all levels.
V4.20
Magic resistance increased to 30 from 25. (undocumented)
V3.14
Combine cost increased to Gold 590 from Gold 550.
Total cost unchanged.
V1.0.0.152
Combine cost reduced to Gold 550 from Gold 585.
Total cost reduced to Gold 1350 from Gold 1400.
Magic resistance reduced to 25 from 30.
V1.0.0.146
Now displays its cooldown on the item itself rather than with a buff.
V1.0.0.138
Shield duration increased to 5 seconds from 3.
V1.0.0.136
Added to recipe for Maw of Malmortius item Maw of Malmortius.
Recipe changed to Long Sword item Long Sword + Null-Magic Mantle item Null-Magic Mantle + Gold 585 = Gold 1400
Old recipe: Long Sword item Long Sword + Long Sword item Long Sword + Null-Magic Mantle item Null-Magic Mantle + Gold 570 = Gold 1800
Attack damage reduced to 25 from 35.
Shield strength reduced to 250 from 300.
Shield duration reduced to 3 seconds from 4.
V1.0.0.106
Shield refresh time increased to 60 seconds from 45.
V1.0.0.105 Added.
Recipe: Long Sword item Long Sword + Long Sword item Long Sword + Null-Magic Mantle item Null-Magic Mantle + Gold 570 = Gold 1800
Stats: +35 attack damage, +30 magic resistance
Unique passive: If you would take magic damage which would leave you at less than 30% of your maximum health, you gain a shield which absorbs 300 magic damage for 4 seconds. 45 second cooldown.
Pika Fox6 votesHexdrinker is fine. Most that build it are squishy melees who are otherwise already at a massive, and i do mean massive, disadvantage. Youre severely underestimating the power of long range poke/harass and burst.
And im saying this as someone who irrationally hates zed (i hate his constant shadow blinking, my mechanics arent great so clicking on him as he jumps around is a pain), if youre complaining about him being "op" with godly poke and harass, stop. His harass is either 1Q or he uses his massive CD safety net W and is now free poke for you for 22 seconds or so. Hes free.
Wanna know why talon, zed, etc get hex? Because you have like 500+ teemos on him in range. Use it.
Nyarlathοtep5 votesYoure severely underestimating the power of long range poke/harass and burst.
BULLSHIT. Almost all long ranged spells have big delays. All long ranged champs (mages to be exact) are forced to aa in order to function. You are underestimating heavily the limitations that these spells have.
Because you have like 500+ teemos on him in range
Which nowadays means nothing when almost every dash has at least has a range of at least 550.
Pika Fox3 votesAuto attack minions, yes. Champions, optional. Even then, hes literally melee. If he wants to extend his range to your own levels of range, its a 20+ second CD.
If you think most dashes are as long as a ziggs Q, lux QE, xerath Q, etc etc, youre mistaken. Nocturne ult, sure. Most others? Not really.
Nyarlathοtep3 votesAuto attack minions, yes. Champions, optional. Even then, hes literally melee. If he wants to extend his range to your own levels of range, its a 20+ second CD.
Wait how is that relevant to my comments? I suppose its a response to the first part. Which i specifically said mages because artillery mages are made to hit from long range. And no other champs can function to those ranges.
If you think most dashes are as long as a ziggs Q, lux QE, xerath Q, etc etc, youre mistaken. Nocturne ult, sure. Most others? Not really.
But the thing is that, despite the long range, dashes can travel long distances, and since most champs have a form of dealing damage even if they arent melee, it means that the champ that is keeping his distance can still be damaged (and since they are squishy they can die easily).
Pika Fox5 votesNone of the champs that buy hex have the ability to hit you from range on par with your own without blowing a massive CD. I think zed it the only one of the lot that can do it, and if he does do it you have a free lane. Absolutely free.
Nyarlathοtep3 votesNone of the champs that buy hex have the ability to hit you from range on par with your own without blowing a massive CD
True. But its not like long range mages can constantly stay that far away from their aa range. All of them are forced to go to aa range, either through their kit (xerath's and lux's passive) or their mana nature. Early one mages (apart one or two) have to often use their aa to last hit for obvious reasons. Mana is difficult to regain, as such conserving it is a must.
Absolutely free.
Bullshit. He still has his eyes. Sidestepping spells from long range mages is an easy task. Sure he cant fight back, but he isnt free.
Pika Fox4 votesMost assassins cant do a ton to pressure you from CSing at a range, as most are melee. LB can, but thats kinda just her thing.
And yes, it is absolutely free. He has 0 pressure against you now, and has to play safe. He cant effectively harass you, and hes melee, meaning he has to auto to land CS in melee range. He presses W, you now have full lane dominance for 20 seconds. Dont even need to land a spell, just the fact that you can is more than enough.
Nyarlathοtep1 votesMost assassins cant do a ton to pressure you from CSing at a range
Like i said earlier, they can harass you the moment you go to aa. And dont tell me "but you dont have to", because you have to. Hell scratch that, they can engage you the moment you go for aa.
And yes, it is absolutely free. He has 0 pressure against you now, and has to play safe
Well the way you phrased it i misunderstood it. I thought you were implying that he was free kill.
Shablagoo1 votesYes like you harass them from range too when they go auto attack, you have a inherent advatange over them from range not only can you auto but use spells each time they go to get minions. IN fact if we are talking about zed, without w harass is weak most q are even very heavy hitting, because you will be behind a minions. After the w use you have 20 seconds of free harass.
Yes like you harass them from range too when they go auto attack, you have a inherent advatange over them from range not only can you auto but use spells each time they go to get minions.
Indeed i can. But unfortunately, it doesnt work for xerath. The q has a big delay, and e can be bodyblocked. Leaving only w but unless its the centre, it deals very low damage. Early on that is. Aa works, but after the first levels, aa deals non existent damage.
Shablagoo1 votesDo i have to explain how xerath works for you? W is a tool that allows you to hit ur q's easier not just ur e. Also you missing ur q is on you not the fact that hex exists regardless of whether it was there or not it seems you would still be losing.
EkyonKun6 votesI've said this in the past, but I'll say it again. Knock off 5 AD from hexdrinker and it becomes much more balanced. This does 2 things.
1: It makes it become not cost efficient on its own merit without the defensive shield it comes with.
2: It better helps delay power spikes by lowering the damage you get for rushing such a strong defensive item.
I think nerfing the defensive aspect of a defensive item would be kind of silly, but nerfing the OFFENSIVE power of it could be the way to go.
GankLord1 votesTbh I typically dont buy HD for the damage I buy it for the shield/mr the ad is just a bonus and makes it a viable purchase for me if I'm playing an ad champ.
EkyonKun1 votesThat is exactly my point. Its a defensive item that currently doesnt adequetly lower damage output for how effective it is at countering ap burst.
Youre not SUPPOSED to be getting it for damage, youre supposed to get it when youre against brutal magic poke and need something to help get a foothold in lane.
-5 AD would be a step in the right direction I would think.
Illabethe5 votesHexdrinker isn't broken at all. It does exactly what any other item does: Its job when chosen at a specific point of the game versus specific champions and play styles.
Before you call out Hexdrinker, I want you to seriously consider the alternative. No Hexdrinker. No Viable early game item to soak burst mage damage.
And then I want you to think about adcs who are in a lane vs 
spam without one.
I want you to think about how playing your 
would feel if an early game 
hit you with Q, and just destroyed you because of her single target rework.
And then I want you to consider how 
feels without Hexdrinker.... and how she 1 shots any of the melee champs you play that one time she successfully sleeps.
The item needs to exist. Like Armor needs to exist. Like HP needs to exist. You cannot win so many matchups if you can't mitigate them.
Imagine how 
feels when he has a limited max HP, and can be 1 shot by 35% of the roster, and can be 100% kit deprived by 6 other champs, and can be full combo'd by about another 30% of the roster. That Magic barrier is easily his only real possible access to artificial HP.
PrinceOfStorms2 votesThe problem is that Hexdrinker gives AD champions complete safety against all AP champions (and builds into an item that makes them even safer), while AP champions don't have an analogue that gives them the same degree of safety from AD champions. If Hexdrinker is going to stay, then at the absolute least, Maw of Malmortius needs to be removed. It should be an early game item that you use to survive lane, and if you build it you're going to put yourself behind, in the same way that an AP champion building Seeker's puts themselves behind because they don't have a mana item.
Illabethe5 votesExcept it doesn't. It grants them a small reprieve. For what amounts to about ~ 140 damage.
And only if the Mage doesn't 1 shot the last 31% HP (Maw doesn't activate if the last 30% goes down in 1 hit)
Also, it's BLASTED EASY to proc Hexdrinker and THEN execute after it runs out.
PrinceOfStorms5 votesFor what amounts to about ~ 140 damage.
Which is huge in the early game.
Also, it's BLASTED EASY to proc Hexdrinker and THEN execute after it runs out.
But it's also super easy for an AD champion to back out while it's on CD. Unlike, say, Banshee's Veil, its CD ticks down even in combat.
Illabethe1 votes140 is about level 4. You don't even have a Hexdrinker until about level 6. At level 6, 160 damage is NOT large lol. At level 6 with 
......
with 
, I can do....
Q: 356.75 damage. E: Varies depending on target HP, but 95 base damage, + 5.625% R: Varies, but at least 150 + 48.75 damage, up to 397.5
Electrocute: 100 + 19.5
968.75
That's just with a 35 AP item, and not really taking into account other runes, and also not even including that 5.625% Max HP damage.
Now let's look at what a Zed with a 
does:
Level 6: Has 919.8 HP.
with the max HP damage her potential damage is 1020.5 Damage
That suggests...... Evelynn can't 100-0% him with 1 combo unless she auto attacks a couple times too.
But she certainly can 90% - 0% him even with the hexdrinker, because she only needs to chisel through 827.8 HP (+160 HP shield) or 987.8 HP to go through.
I don't know about you, but if I can 90% -0% someone in their combo, the shield isn't all that effective.
Isn't the AD getting its shield the whole point of having it? By backing out, they waste it. By staying, they risk killing/be killed. How is that a contradiction to my arguments? You actually just listed a DOWNSIDE of Hexdrinker; it's not used as often as its counterparts.
You're also ignoring 
/
offers FAR more counter utility than other of the two items you mentioned. Zhonya's EASILY blows 1000-2000 damage+..... compared to this tiny shield you're complaining about.
Baval1 votesZhonya blows 1000-2000 damage? What are you doing firing your whole rotation at a zhonyad target? Thats on you.
it also interests me how your calculations dont seem to account for the MR it gives, making it a lot stronger than youre implying, or the fact that AD champions can still fight with their CDs down while APs cannot meaning if you dont kill someone in your CDs youre likely not going to.
As noted on the wiki: "Hexdrinker's passive interacts with itself, similar to Thornmail. Given the lowest amount of magic resistance possible with this item (30 + 35 = 65), then the damage taken calculation (100 ÷ 165 = 0.606), then the raw damage conversion ([110~280] ÷ 0.606), the shield will absorb around 182 to 462 raw magic damage. "
With this calculation the "160" you quoted is actually 264 at minimum possible MR (and many ADs have natural MR scaling, for example Zed) which according to your calculation is about 45% of Eves total damage accounting for MR on the full damage (lowering it to 586).
Also your assertion that its easy to wait out hexdrinkers 5 second shield is simply not realistic in todays game. 5 seconds is a century.
FutureCreator3 votesBefore you call out Hexdrinker, I want you to seriously consider the alternative. No Hexdrinker. No Viable early game item to soak burst mage damage.
This is a false equivalency. Hexdrinker can just be, you know, nerfed? No one is saying we need to either keep it as it is, or completely remove it. Personally I think toning down the shield or taking 10 MR off of it would make it fine.
PrinceOfStorms1 votesOr remove the AD from it and Maw of Malmortius, giving it armor making its shield also affect physical damage at the same time. Now it's an AD/AP neutral item and AP champions can build it to cuck AD assasssins.
Baval1 votesThe problem isnt that Hexdrinker does its job, its that it does its defensive job AND its offensive job at the same time. Zhonyas, when complete, gives offensive and defensive abilities but before its complete you have to choose which parts youre building down and only get the defensive or offensive components.
Oh no, people would have to dodge all these skillshot champions? Every single character you mentioned is a skillshot champion and the one "how would you feel if you had to play this guy" is not. Frankly, I have no pity for the Khazix who doesnt bother to dodge skillshots and expects to still be able to win.
Nor do I have any pity for the support assassin expecting to be a tank.
Ahris4 votesThen we have seekers to counter those ad champs but it ends up being very useless since its just base stats increase.
Summonah123693 votesAs having the name hexDRINKER, I assumed it was a potion but apparently not...
SugeMinPikk8 votesIt drinks hexes for you.. Hexes are spells..
VeigarDestroyer3 votesYeah as a Veigar main i absolutely despise this item 200 shield on top 35 mres and 20 attack damage completely shuts me down till atleast 2 items. And its extremely cost efficient you're paying 1300 gold for 25 attack damage (about 875 gold) 35 mres (about 550 gold) and 110-250 hp agaisnt ap damage (let's say 200 so 400 gold) Stats itself are worth the cost and the effect is a cherry on the cake.
Mykedejong2 votesyou are basicly q farming the wave till you get 1 or 2 items and if they rush a hexdrinker vs you still more reason to focus on the wave management and stacking then harassing your opponent. 