Another Elise Thread

The Fizzlestick··5 votes·726 views

Elise had been a problem champion, ever since her release it seems. While I can understand why she was systematically nerfed, from nerfing/removing her bonus armor and magic resist on her spider form, to nerfing the damage on her q, and even the two nerfs to her rappel range, what is left is a champion that is literally good for nothing. Early on she was built as an assassin, stacking penetration in order to completely explode her targets. However, she was too tanky for an assassin, so riot took away the armor and mr on her spider form. Then they nerfed the range on rappel, which honestly did need some nerfing as it was absurdly high. Then came the damage nerfs, which weakened her, but not so much as to make her unviable. However, now rather than building damage on Elise , people built magic pen and then went full tank for the late game. A rappel range and various other nerfs later, and she became the unviable champ she is now. However, what makes her unviable? Well, her numbers are too low to be a generalist (kind of likeYasuo ), she lacks the utility to be a utility based champ (one single target cc skillshot), and she lacks the base stats / abilities to be a tank. I don't know what riot wants to do with her, but I have a few suggestions for buffs.

First of all, if you want to make her a tank, give her back the bonus armor/mr on her spider form. If you want to make her an assassin, give her more scaling on her q so she scales into late-game. If you want to make her an early game champ revert the stun scaling on cocoon and make it 1.5 sec at all ranks instead of 1-2 seconds based on rank.

As many have stated, even C9 Meteos, someone who was arguably the best Elise in the NA LCS, stated that she has problems preventing her from being viable. Every time she's picked in LCS the casters say that it's a comfort pick for the player and actually isn't a very good pick, shown by the low win-rate in LCS. Why pick Elise when Vi, a far better generalist, is available. Why pick Elise when Sejuani, a far better tank with way more cc is available. Why pick Elise when Nidalee, a far better assassin, is available. These are the fundamental problems with Elise that are preventing her viability in this meta, and a few solutions to the problem. Whether you make changes or not is up to you, but in her current state Elise is a decent early game champ who becomes a stun bot late game, and literally nothing else.

9 Comments

Abyssphere2 votes

She just needs a way to survive to do her job in assassinating someone. C9 Meteos said it himself: give her a way to survive through building AP and she'll be fine. All they need to do is buff the AP ratio on Skittering Frenzy's heal and I honestly think she'll be OK.

The Fizzlestick1 votes
  1. Meh I was thinking about mentioning buffing the AP ratios on her other abilities but the ratio on volatile spider-ling is OK and Skittering Frenzy is situational late game. With how much cc teams are bringing nowadays, thanks to Cinderhulk, getting off 3 autos, even at 140% attack speed, is difficult without getting cc'd and killed. Sure it'd make her 1v1 and clear better, but that's about it. She might be able to actually fight Vi /RekSai /LeeSin /JarvanIV in the jungle with this though, so who knows, it might be just what she needed.
Abyssphere1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Fizzlestick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w0dPbhwF,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-04-07T15:16:45.213+0000)

  1. Meh I was thinking about mentioning buffing the AP ratios on her other abilities but the ratio on volatile spider-ling is OK and Skittering Frenzy is situational late game. With how much cc teams are bringing nowadays, thanks to Cinderhulk, getting off 3 autos, even at 140% attack speed, is difficult without getting cc'd and killed. Sure it'd make her 1v1 and clear better, but that's about it. She might be able to actually fight Vi /RekSai /LeeSin /JarvanIV in the jungle with this though, so who knows, it might be just what she needed.

Personally I think it is what she needs. The thing is, C9 Meteos himself has said that the problem with Elise is the best you can hope to do in building damage is get a kill and then give away a kill. Buffing her damage won't help the fact that even when she succeeds, she kinda fails at the same time. For me, a Skittering Frenzy buff would increase her chances of actually surviving.

But I forgot to mention the other thing I think she needs: an on-kill reset on Rappel so she can escape after a kill.

LankPants1 votes

Maybe just me but I'd be more inclined to give spider form its bonus resists back as a ratio, maybe around a 0.07 AP ratio (which is 35 at 500).

I just don't feel like the extra healing would ever be impactfull until the point she's healing hundreds of HP per second.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

Maybe just me but I'd be more inclined to give spider form its bonus resists back as a ratio, maybe around a 0.07 AP ratio (which is 35 at 500).

I just don't feel like the extra healing would ever be impactfull until the point she's healing hundreds of HP per second.

That could probably work too, but I think that ratio is a bit high (35 free armor and MR for building full glass cannon is a bit much imo, maybe a 0.04 ratio for 20?).

It's possible the buff to Skittering Frenzy wouldn't be as big as I think but I'd like it as a starting point, potentially alongside an on-kill reset on Rappel (how do people feel about that idea? I've seen it thrown around but no idea if it's worth starting a thread on it). A big reason I'd prefer a buff to her heal rather than tank stats is because one of the big complaints about Elise is that she's historically been a big ball of stats, and there's a lot more gameplay to an on-hit heal than there is to passive tankiness.

The Fizzlestick1 votes

This might cause people to hate Elise for getting tanky while building damage, like how people hate how Riven's shield scales with AD, so I doubt riot would do that.

The Fizzlestick1 votes

Wat a wall of text who's gonna read all that Q_Q too much work. TL;DR Elise is too weak as a generalist due to lacking in damage, too weak as a tank since she doesn't have high tank stats or much cc, and too weak as an assassin since she doesn't have damage that scales into the late game. Buff her numbers and revert the change to cocoon to make her a generalist, give her armor and mr on her spider form to make her a tank, and have her q scale harder into late game to make her an assassin.

LankPants1 votes

First of all, if you want to make her a tank, give her back the bonus armor/mr on her spider form.

That would have a higher effect on assassin Elise. Having extra armour and MR isn't as useful when you already have tons.

The Fizzlestick1 votes

Maybe it could scale with Armor/MR, something like 5/10/15 armor/mr at levels 6/11/16 (+15% of bonus armor/mr) to prevent it being op on assassin Elise. Just throwing around ideas.

More from Gameplay

More by The Fizzlestick