Tank Fizz? Again? Shouldnt this stop after the assassin reworks? Riot pls?

ΒΒ8·Nov 16, 2016·4 votes·1,481 views

As a Fizz Main i enjoy playing Ap Fizz in the mid lane but as the rework came out i got the feeling riot didn't think about the consequences of the 2 Seconds damage delay... What i mean is that im kinda forced to play a tanky fizz with road or even rylais ... thats ridicules but i really works and makes fizz viable that way. I just wonder if this was intended by riot? On the other hand Ad fizz top is a thing again and i can understand people who hate to face a tanky ad fizz on toplane because its just toxic and not really healthy for the game. Before the Rework came out, Riot said that fizz should be one of the most mobile assassins in the game, but they didn´t even reduce his e cooldown. I can life with that but should Riot give him more mobility und reduce the base damage on the w? I would like to outplay my enemies with mobility not with pure damage or tankyness.

20 Comments

ChaddyFantomeNov 16, 20163 votes

I predicted this would happen.

Fizz's W change actually incentives a bruiser build for getting multiple W's on people, but with the AD ratio on his Q, i don't think Riot was trying to gut Bruiser fizz at all, but balance the both of them.

ErockandrollNov 16, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I predicted this would happen.

Fizz's W change actually incentives a bruiser build for getting multiple W's on people, but with the AD ratio on his Q, i don't think Riot was trying to gut Bruiser fizz at all, but balance the both of them.

I think it's the sheen items. It seems like any AP assassin designed to synergize with Lich bane, is going to have that duality because they also synergize with TF and IBC.

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vt4YPtoN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-16T14:17:04.067+0000)

Champions shouldn't be forced into one build path. If Fizz can build tanky it should only be a problem when he starts to out preform meta tanks regardless of situation.

Not true tanks. Assassins who build tanky items are building a Bruiser builds. They don't have the massive AoE engage and lock down, to perform the role of a Vanguard, but they have dueling power. Really those bruiser builds need to be compared to likes of Jax, Irealia, Fiora and Trundle.

{quoted}

Tbh, after watching some streams most assasins can be turned into tanks now. the other day PhyLoL played Rengar with Cinderhulk, Claver, Dead Man's, Spirit Visage build and when he had Cinderhulk, Deadmans and Cleaver he was sitting at 3k+ HP and 200AD. How is that fair?

This isn't actually anything new, Rengar always had a fighter build that relied heavily on CDR, as it relied on rapid stacking of fury, and frequent empowerment of his abilities, and as an added bonus more CDR meant more engages with your ult. (This was my perferd build.

Back then I would have built Warrior, SV, and Lucidity boots for my source of CDR. And then I think it was common to see a Tiamat for extra clear speed. SV is always good, because it helps you sustain with your W.

Amidively, the Rengar changes really helped his fighter build. This build didn't have quite the Bursting power of an Assassin build, but it game him better dueling power, and toughness. But I wouldn't say this works with all Assassins. (wouldn't recommend a tank build on Talon) But in Rengar's case, it gives him the role of a Diver, where his empowered E gives him just enough CC to make the role work. Where most other Assassins lack the CC and utility.

EcchiOtakuTMNov 16, 20161 votes

The Q's ad ratio isn't additional. It's a glorified way to say AA.

It's always been there since it applies on-hits idk why riot are trying to confuse players by adding it now instead of telling players they're adding it to on-hit skills to show the AA damage.

DêcoyNov 16, 20163 votes

Tbh, after watching some streams most assasins can be turned into tanks now. the other day PhyLoL played Rengar with Cinderhulk, Claver, Dead Man's, Spirit Visage build and when he had Cinderhulk, Deadmans and Cleaver he was sitting at 3k+ HP and 200AD. How is that fair?

Wolfram OxfordNov 16, 20161 votes

Champions shouldn't be forced into one build path. If Fizz can build tanky it should only be a problem when he starts to out preform meta tanks regardless of situation.

RalanrNov 16, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vt4YPtoN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-16T14:17:04.067+0000)

Champions shouldn't be forced into one build path. If Fizz can build tanky it should only be a problem when he starts to out preform meta ~~tanks~~ Fighters regardless of situation.

FIFY.

DragonSheaNov 16, 20161 votes

About that.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

LimmieNov 16, 20161 votes

It's the same as with Akali. They say they want assassins to stop building tank but then take away their burst so that they have no choice but to build tank to survive their targets for the 10 seconds it take to kill them now.

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

Tank Akali was around before this.

LimmieNov 16, 20161 votes

Yes, and?

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

Akali has been in a terrible state for a long time and this update no longer denies it.

LimmieNov 16, 20161 votes

Again, and?

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

The changes she needs are beyond the grasp of a roster update but she needed changes anyway for at least the stealth update.

Her building tank has pretty much become a staple because her damage builds are either useless or more oppressive than a fed Leblanc.

LimmieNov 16, 20161 votes

She didn't need changes at all, she was bad to begin with and the update nerfs only made it worse. Her building tank before was never meta before because going AP was always better, it's now that her AP scalings and burst have been nerfed that going tank is the best build.

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

The stealth changes beg to differ.

And she was building tank before this update. It was a common build.

LimmieNov 16, 20161 votes

At 6,5% of games she played, it can hardly be called common. Armor penetration Akali got played 4,5%, that shows how common tank Akali was. Teemo got an exception to the stealth changes, no reason Akali couldn't be one either. At any rate the stealth changes don't justify change every single scaling, cooldown and passive.

RalanrNov 16, 20161 votes

Where are you getting those stats from?

And not changing her stealth would have caused problems because the pink wards that revealed her no longer existed. So if control wards worked then it'd be a camouflage spell, but camouflage is meant to be out of combat stealth whereas her shroud is in combat.

LXIINov 16, 20161 votes

The delay is there to force Fizz to play around his ult since it also applies the W passive. You just ult, wait, then W+Q them and they die. The other side of that coin is that if you don't have ult up it's a pain to kill people.

That sounds incredibly fair to me.

You just want to play old Fizz style and still one shot people without using ult, and the rework has made that a little more difficult.

ΒΒ8Nov 16, 20162 votes

I actually like the delay and the playstyle behind but i think an assassin should be able to play around the 2 seconds with mobility and not just facetank it anyway with a toxiclike tankbuild. Therefore was my suggestion to switch mobility for basestats.

EcchiOtakuTMNov 16, 20161 votes

Doesn't have sustained dps via a % missing hp AA.

All AP ratios(Q's ad ratio is just AA damage since it's an on-hit not additional)

Doesn't increase damage of sunfire via ulti.

Tank fizz not found, "mission failed we'll get them next time"

Tank fizz is going armor+mr heavily not building ap items with slight hp/mr/armor.

Jesus people are misunderstanding tank assassins now.