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@RiotStashu: Why the Cassiopeia rework isn't awful (and why the PBE changes make it more flat)

ThatSpysASpy··1 votes·623 views

I really like the Cassiopeia rework. It seems like all I see are players who played Cass formerly raging about how they don't like the new style. However, the people who I've talked to who picked her up post-rework (like myself) seem to really enjoy her new play style. The new Cassiopeia feels like a Nasus type champion but with a higher mechanical requirement, which is great. However, the current changes on the PBE make playing Cass easier, but therefore also less rewarding when played optimally. There are two issues with the current rework:

  1. The debuff on her E does not make up for the nerf to her E's ratio Cass's E took a 0.05 AP ratio hit on the PBE. Casting her E at twice per second, this amounts to a 0.1 AP per second nerf. With two stacks of her E debuff on an enemy, Cass's Q will deal 50% more damage. The base value per second is about 37 (so about 4%AP for end game Cass), and the AP ratio is 0.15. 50% of these put together is a buff of about 0.095 AP to Cass. Add 50% of her W's ratio (0.1), and we see that this means about 0.0145 AP damage per second more off of poison. Now, subtract the nerf to her E ratio, (0.1 per second) and this is a buff of 0.045 AP per second. This does look like a buff on the face of it, but it doesn't consider the fact that Cass needs to apply the E stacks, so she'll be dealing less damage in the first second. Furthermore, this reduces Cassiopeia's ability to switch targets (which is what makes her less as an "AP marksman").

  2. The change to her farm based passive is a significant nerf With the proposed changes on the PBE, Cass will be gaining 2% of her maximum stacks per minute. This ignores stacks from poison, but I want to look at the change in stacking rate from before this nerf. Before, she was getting 13/400 = 3.25% of her max stacks per minute. On the one hand, this assumes perfect farming of poisoned minions, which only becomes easy after the first recall. However, this also disregards the many stacks from using her E in lane. So, this makes the minimum time to max out Cass's passive much higher, while simultaneously making the average time higher as well. I don't think the buff to Cassiopeia's poison (which is mitigated by the E nerf already), justifies the nerf to her passive.

In conclusion, I love the new champion that was released, but it doesn't look like my fun was going to last.

5 Comments

CreationFlaw1 votes

Uhm, I'm not really upset about these so called nerfs, to be honest. If you play diligently enough, you'll end up one of the most broken champions in the entire game, with around 1300 or so AP and able to two hit carries and 1v1 fighters and the like.

ThatSpysASpy1 votes

That is true. I agree that if their intent is to nerf her then this is a good way to do it. You'll notice that I'm not actually talking about whether they should buff her or nerf her. Based on RiotStashu's previous comments it sounds like they want to buff her, so I'm arguing that they haven't accomplished that.

CreationFlaw1 votes

That is true. I agree that if their intent is to nerf her then this is a good way to do it. You'll notice that I'm not actually talking about whether they should buff her or nerf her. Based on RiotStashu's previous comments it sounds like they want to buff her, so I'm arguing that they haven't accomplished that.

Oh, I took it differently, sorry about that. I guess I'm used to everybody calling out nerfs or buffs for champions that I've sort of just fallen into a mindset, but yeah, I do see where you're coming from. The problem with a champion like Cassiopeia in my opinion, is that she's completely reliant on constant poison and resets, and those aren't easy to balance, especially the fact that she gets a reset every time that she uses her E on a target with poison, that even mid game, there's very little counterplay, especially when she has an ult that deals massive damage and removes your ability to get in close for a good two seconds. It's on par with certain champions in a way, because if you nerf one part of her kit, she requires a buff to another part of her kit, else she gets a smash on her play rate, same with other champions.

I'm not really sure what I want from Cassiopeia, but I don't want her late game to be even more powerful then say a Veigar with 250 stacks on his Q who's been farming minions/and or champions diligently. I've never played Cassiopeia, so I'm not entirely sure, I just know that she could two hit me while being able to build 150 armor and a bit of beefiness as well. The reason why I find her passive so insane is that I believe once you hit a certain milestone, she not only gets like 20% bonus ap, she also heals about 200hp per hit or something similar, no? It makes the farming levels a lot more powerful on Cassiopeia, even though they're both super farm reliant. *Sort of spewing nonsense, sorry, it's 4:15 AM

ThatSpysASpy1 votes

Yeah I get where you're coming from. Her E heals for 10% AP after she passes 75 stacks. I've found that the counterplay to her is hard CC and gap closers, much like an AP version of an ADC.

AquariusGine1 votes

The fact that you started your thread with 'I like the rework' is what got you those downvotes (not from me).

There are just so many people who dislike the rework they wont even bother to read your post.

Anyways, in my opinion, I do agree with you on number 1.

Number 2 I want to test it out myself first.

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