Most AP champs have a limited amount of burst, 35% plus a few small numbers here and there just isnt enough. No way its fair that AD champs get crit strike, damage, huge amounts of life steal, and an item that does 45-50% armor penetration.
Itankyou5 votesMost AP champs have a limited amount of burst, 35% plus a few small numbers here and there just isnt enough. No way its fair that AD champs get crit strike, damage, huge amounts of life steal, and an item that does 45-50% armor penetration.
No.
fullbacks632 votesI love it when boosted garbage responds here
The Table4 votesYou have no idea what you are talking about. Shut up.
fullbacks631 votes[deleted]
420 grams1 votesDamn, no chill here
I am Pacman4 votesNo one has mentioned this so im going to correct you there.
Void staff 35% mr pen of ALL mr.
LW items are 35% of BONUS armor meaning they don't penetrate anyones base armor.
The other ap pen items line up with the ad pen items.
EDIT: as i was typing this someone said the same thing lol
fullbacks632 votesBase armor is still very little, the bonus armor penetration from lord dominiks or mortal reminder is still extemely fucking strong. When adcs have their crit and damage full build and deal 800+ damage per hit, its enough to deal with squishies who only have like 60-80 base armor end game.
UnbeatablePlayer5 votesno it's not. it scales up to 60-70 or so on some champs. this is just another bullshit thread that escaped downvote heaven which has no logic whatsoever from a mage guy who thinks mages are weak.
IcyPepper3 votesthat does 45-50% armor penetration.
Bonus armor. Keep in mind that void staff does complete MR reduction, making it slightly more effective against squishy targets.
Also, the values are 30% to 45%, because 45% bonus armor penetration would be ridiculous on a 1300 gold item.
If you're going to complain, please keep your numbers accurate. 30-45% bonus armor penetration is wildly different than 45-50% armor penetration (specifying it's bonus armor is important if you're comparing it to Void Staff). That would be ridiculously OP.
But giving Void Staff a passive beyond just mere penetration would be nice, though. Make it more than a staff of stats.
1000angrybees3 votesActually, I'd say its the other way around: AP pen is fine, it's Armor pen that's too readily available.
GrReaper963 votesWhat i really want it a smaller version of 
. AD can get 
for early pen when AP is forced to buy which is like double the first
Wimbledofy6 votesan ad can never really get for early pen. it only works against bonus armor and early in the game the enemies won't have much armor. For early pen for ads i think you meant this 
but mages can get these anyways 
. Also void stuff is much more effective as an early buy for mages vs adcs since most mages abilities have a base damage and pen>flat ap for maxed skills in most cases. Adcs have to rely on autos primarily and if they rush pen they will be missing attack speed/crit/lifesteal.
GrReaper962 votesIm talking about top lane where its pretty common for champions to build 
. Fighter champions have the option of rushing to make sure their damage isnt completely negated. Top ap champions on the other hand have to buy which mr pen scales with level and gives mr, which is kinda useless againts a garen rushing 
. Either that or which is cost more than last whisper and gives less penetration. Not only mid and adc use penetration, other lanes can too.
Wimbledofy1 votesyou act as if ap champs can't get void staff early, but they can. Void staff is a much better early buy than lw since void staff scales better with abilities and goes through all of the enemies mr. Lw only goes through bonus armor and only gives 25 ad. I've never seen an ad champ get lw as first or second item but mages totally have the option for getting void staff as second item. Here's a good explanation on void staff http://www.leagueoflegendsmath.com/Articles/Common_Build_Mistakes.html#Rabadon
GrReaper961 votesIf youre comparing stats youre doing it wrong. is on par with 
or 
you should be comparing those 3, not . Im talking about tier cheap penetration items here, tier 2 gold items. AD champion have a % armour penetration tier 2 item, ap only has . Then again i guess is also a tier 3 so i was wrong about tht. Still, ap has no choice but to get while ad can settle for . Im not arguing ad pen is superior, im arhuing they have better early choices.
Wimbledofy1 votesbut it is a bad early choice!!! by the time an ad should ever get a last whisper, an ap champion could have gotten a void staff even sooner. your argument saying they have better early choices while using last whisper as an example makes no sense. last whisper does nothing for you early while void can be great early.
GrReaper961 votesif the enemy is pending almost 7k gold to buy 
and youre top 
spend 1.4k gold for an item tht counters it is kinda worthwhile
Wimbledofy1 votesalright... but that isn't really an early buy, that's a whole 7k gold. Lets say you are an ap and they buy and well for the same price as an ap you can get 
GrReaper961 votesThink of it this way. A new item called Void Wand which is 
+ 550g. Gives 40 ap and 25% magic penetration. Thats kinda all i want.
Automatis1 votesWhat are you talking about? I love it when a fighter builds and totally ignores my entire rotation.
What they really need to do is give AP champs a %hp item that's actually worth a damn. HP and MR both counter mages, so a genericfighter#x with has 1.5 items to deal with AP. Any fighter or tank will have so much HP in their build, with only 1 MR item, that its impossible to handle on even footing.
Riot continuing to force us to need ADCs to chew through any remotely tanky champion. Especially now that a AP items are more expensive and give less AP than ever, while ADs get more armor pen, AD, and AD scalings than ever.
LatetotheRace2 votes
??
Besides, let's not buff 
EDIT: "What they really need to do is give AP champs a %hp item that's actually worth a damn" uh huh, pretty sure that is this items design.
fullbacks632 votesThat item hardly does 20 magic penetration. Thats didly garbage
Bobloser35551 votesIt does 15magic pen
Zero Skill Tank2 votesIt's only a viable option on few mages.
ElysMustache1 votesIf you did some math, you wouldn't have made this post.
fullbacks631 votes[deleted]
ElysMustache3 votesOr I'm a 37 year-old father of three who is a nineteen-year veteran submariner who teaches at the Nuclear Power Training Unit.
420 grams1 votesI get that as a mage it's hard to fight tanks, but that's no really your role as a mage. You should be doing crowd control, damage to everyone, and/or killing a high priority target (like adc). At least in my opinion.
fullbacks631 votesI know and I am aware of the META schedule on league. The tanks kill the mages, The ADCS Kill the tanks, and the mages killl the ADCS. Little room for varying here and there but thats how it goes.
I am an AD Main, I play Nasus, Pantheon, Miss fortune, Darius, a little yasuo, caitlyn,
I really like some mages though like blitzcrank and heimerdinger, and I think if they buffed the magic penetration to around 45 it would be fair. People are posting all kinds of stupid hate (what can you expect most of these losers failed basic math). But there should be more magic penetration. With black cleaver and either of the finished last whisper items your cutting through 80% of the tanks armor. Not the same for mages.
420 grams1 votesTrue, and I see where you're coming from because it's very difficult to fight a tank as a mage. But a melee has to get right on them to hit them, and has to hit them 6 times to get cleavers bonus full. All the while they themselves are being hit. Mages are just point and click, so it'd be unfair to give them the same advantage. Also, early game mages have a huge advantage over tanks because they can poke, and tanks aren't tanks yet so they die easily. Basically tanks are just counter building you. To counter them, build penetration, and/or ad to beat them (especially blare of ruined king). I know building ad on a mage sounds stupid, but if you really need to counter a mage resist tank, it works. CDR also helps because you can just keep hitting them, instead of hard once like you're use to.
Also, malazahars ult kills tanks pretty easily if you have the chance to counter pick
420 grams1 votesOne more thing is that there are more armor items than MR, especially since they toned down MR on spirit visage. Ad people still need to deal with stuff like thorn mail.
Paroe1 votesTrue, and I see where you're coming from because it's very difficult to fight a tank as a mage. But a melee has to get right on them to hit them, and has to hit them 6 times to get cleavers bonus full. All the while they themselves are being hit. Mages are just point and click, so it'd be unfair to give them the same advantage. Also, early game mages have a huge advantage over tanks because they can poke, and tanks aren't tanks yet so they die easily. Basically tanks are just counter building you. To counter them, build penetration, and/or ad to beat them (especially blare of ruined king). I know building ad on a mage sounds stupid, but if you really need to counter a mage resist tank, it works. CDR also helps because you can just keep hitting them, instead of hard once like you're use to.
Also, malazahars ult kills tanks pretty easily if you have the chance to counter pick
Most mages are not point and click. Most are based around skillshots at this point. Now, What does more damage; 300AP or 300AD with 1.25 attack speed? Mpen builds give at max 400AP, which simply is NOT a lot of AP. But total A-pen builds give 250+AD and 1.0+ attack speed.
So... lets math, yeah?
= 55+65+50+65 = 235bonus AD, +100 baseAD, you have 335 total AD. and 30+30% A-pen
335 total AD at 1.25 attack speed is, in ten seconds; between 3284 damage and 3728 physical damage (9.25 and 10.5 seconds), not counting crit.
Now, Mpen build:
(this build varies a lot. personally i use RoA instead of void staff because the flat Mpen is more useful to me, and being tanky is better than not right now and morellos evil book is interchangeable with athenes depending on your needs.) = 80+ 80 + 70+ 40+ 60 = 330AP and 55+35% Mpen
In ten seconds, ziggs with 330AP does; 3423 hitting all of his damage 100% (minefield and ult), not taking CDR into account (because core Mpen items only have 10%, which is negligible.) 2 bouncing bombs: 255+0.65(2) = 510+1.3 1 satchel charge: 210+0.35 1 minefield: 700+1.5 1 ult: 600+1.1
Conclusion: Marksman do the same damage from greater safety with less cooldowns over the same time periods, while having fewer more powerful penetration items which cost less gold over all.
420 grams1 votesFirst off you're accounting for attack speed but not cdr, which changes things. Second, you're adding items like infinity edge to the ad side (the strongest Ad item), but Athene's grail to the ap side instead of deathcap. Third, ap is burst damage and not consistent like Ad. So when you make the time frame 10 secs, it doesn't reflect what happens at 1 sec engagements. Fourth, ap spells tend to have more utility than Ad champs who mostly just do more damage. Lastly, it's the synergy of the game. If you want to melt tanks but get killed by mages before you can touch them, play Ad. If you want to be hard to kill by mages but do little damage, play tank. Sorry there's not items for mages to dominate all players and all champs.
Sasogwa1 votesVoid is strong, abyssal is strong as well. It's just liandrys that kinda sucks atm
Meep Man1 votes
These have Bonus Armor Penetration
This has Total Magic Resist Penetration
Champions have a lot more base armor than magic resist.
The only thing I would do is make maybe another flat magic penetration item, hopefully another one that builds from because is a bit of a niche item and having flat penetration bound makes it hard to justify buying due to it's niche nature.
fullbacks631 votesBonus armor penetration is still pretty strong. I think most of the tanky guys with base armor are around 80. Most of the tanks get 200-300 armor total. The last whisper item just slices through 100-150 armor in that case. For the remaining armor black cleaver takes care of it.
Stacking health regeneration, and 1-2 magic resist items eliminates mages. Not the same for AD though
Darth Sidiouss1 votesyes they should raise the pen % to 40 instead of 35%
Itankyou1 votesAP champs are broken, this thread is irrelevant. I main 
support and consistently do MORE damage than my entire team. Look up my match history.