Why Support champions are most op then other champs.

Thorn Fierce Red·Dec 24, 2016·5 votes·787 views

Well is simple like this all in movespeed and cc to won a match. For example this champs: GG u won XD the most broken sustain champs in all the League, much love when they focus u!

12 Comments

ÇhåryzårdDec 24, 20169 votes

If you think Nami is seriously op then you've already lost some credibility

Sona is squishy as hell, just play someone like Blitz (who counters her) or Thresh or Leona and it's easy to beat her.

Zyra Karma Lux have no sustain I'm not sure where you think that comes from. All they do is provide poke and shields for the adc. They're oppressive but squishy so if you can CC them or catch them out they die. Lux also is more of a midlaner than a support, the only reason she's become a popular support lately is because of people who bought Elementalist Lux and didn't get midlane.

These 3 might need nerfs because like a comment above me said, they're more balanced around midlane than support which is why they're too oppressive botlane.

There are champions that aren't supports that sustain far better than them.

A fed Vayne or Nasus will never die because of their lifesteal for example.

khorneyDec 24, 20166 votes

Zyra runs the bot lane. She literally counters all chanps

Suspicious XebraDec 24, 20164 votes

MissFortune would disagree

Leo1024Dec 24, 20162 votes

everyone but nami is broken in the list, unlike zyra karma needs nerfs because they're balanced around the mid lane and holy shit is karma busted

MisterShamelessDec 24, 20161 votes

Karma doesn't need nerfs, her win rate is only 48% in support and 49% in mid. She has a win rate of 45% in support and 47% before her 6.6 patch buff. She has been getting small nerfs since then and it's been almost an entire season and her win rates only went up about 2.5%.

Leo1024Dec 25, 20161 votes

so yasuo isn't broken because he's at 49%? winrates don't always mean balance

MisterShamelessDec 25, 20161 votes

Alright let's ignore win rates then. Before patch 6.6, before Karma got that unneeded buff (which made me pissed), before all her competition (Lulu and Janna) got nerfs in that same patch, before her pick rate skyrocketed from 0.5% to 10%. Karma was always in the shadow of Lulu because Lulu was and still is the better option for poke, engage, and peel. For 3 seasons before patch 6.6, the community states it's better to main Lulu over Karma, whither it was Top, Mid, or Support. Now Karma is getting attention and everyone wants her head because she is relevant now. No one back then complained about Karma, besides her mains. Everyone had to deal with Lulu back then, look at all the threads about Lulu compared to ones complaining about Karma and Lulu has way more complaints than Karma. Karma's pick rate was 0.5% for the longest time while Lulu has been one of the most popular supports for the longest time because Lulu was always the superior one.

Leo1024Dec 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Alright let's ignore win rates then. Before patch 6.6, before Karma got that unneeded buff (which made me pissed), before all her competition (Lulu and Janna) got nerfs in that same patch, before her pick rate skyrocketed from 0.5% to 10%. Karma was always in the shadow of Lulu because Lulu was and still is the better option for poke, engage, and peel. For 3 seasons before patch 6.6, the community states it's better to main Lulu over Karma, whither it was Top, Mid, or Support. Now Karma is getting attention and everyone wants her head because she is relevant now. No one back then complained about Karma, besides her mains. Everyone had to deal with Lulu back then, look at all the threads about Lulu compared to ones complaining about Karma and Lulu has way more complaints than Karma. Karma's pick rate was 0.5% for the longest time while Lulu has been one of the most popular supports for the longest time because Lulu was always the superior one.

So? Vayne was never buffed but no one complained about her until she became popular, same with syndra and same with kennen but they're all recieving nerfs, and saying that lulu is more unbalanced than karma doesn't really mean much, i'd rather take Cait or Twitch over Vayne but that doesn't mean she's not broken

MisterShamelessDec 25, 20161 votes

I'm curious, could you explain as to what you think makes Karma busted.

Leo1024Dec 25, 20161 votes

Her damage might not never different from other mages but the problem is is that riot made her utility based so 90% of the damage lies in her Q giving her the same damage for landing only one aoe ability whereas other mages have to land their whole combo

At least in a combo for let's say lux you can sidestep the Q, same with Morganas Q but if you're anywhere near minions with Karma she's gonna do just as much damage as Lux and Morg just for missing you

MisterShamelessDec 25, 20161 votes

Riot has never touched Karma's Q because its her only source for range harass and wave clearing, if they nerf that it ruins her mid lane role they want her in. On patch 5.10 they removed 2 of her 3 damage abilities in Karma's kit. Karma did more damage before her 5.10 changes than she does now. Someone did a quick breakdown comparing Karma's current damage against other mid laners. While Karma's R+Q is strong, its broken into 2 parts, first part dealing 3/5 of the total damage and the eruption that follows deals the rest of the 2/5, she won't be able to combo as well as Annie Lux Syndra Velkoz when they land their own combos at level 6. Karma's W has a 2 second delay to activate the snare so it punishes people for not doing anything in that window of when she will R+Q, even is she doesn't snare, you can walk away from her second half of her R+Q, even with the slow. Even with the slow, its easy to walk away from and only deals 3/5 of its total damage.

This is why Karma's high points are at early to mid game, where her ultimate stays a bit ahead until mid game where it becomes equal to other's damage and falls way behind at late game.

These champions can kill carries with their combos while people complain that Karma can just chunk them if they stay for both parts of her R+Q, but she won't usually be able to kill them unless she is ahead.

[{quoted}](name=Inquisitor Karma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VUhI3ATH,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-12-17T11:50:06.383+0000)

No Karma has literally always been designed as a Mage/Support that solo lane first,supportive 2nd(You'll notice every actual support besides Soraka has hard CC she doesn't)

She was never overtuned,new masteries and items made her top tier instead of being "just ok".

Her Q base and scaling is actually very close to every other mage's main ability

Her W was just a weaker version of Leblanc's, now it's stronger because Leblanc received actual nerfs after 7 years

Leblanc's tether had a 280 base 100% ratio,only needed 1.5 seconds to snare,AND had a 25% slow on it.

Karma's tether had a 260 base 60% ratio(now it's 90%) took 2 seconds to snare and only snared for 1 Second until level 16 for most Karmas(also didn't come with a slow)

Karma's E had a 240 base .5 ratio and lasted 4 seconds with a 1.5 long 40%-60% speedbuff now the base is 190

Lulu's E had a 240 base .6 ratio lasted 6 seconds and gave magic damage on hit.

Karma's Q+R does 785+150% ratio Lux's Q+R does 750+145% ratio

But if you knew the game you'd know Karma would end up doing a lot less damage anyway because

A Lux hitting Q also throws out an E

Karma just throwing out a Q+R won't hit for full damage on anyone above Bronze so only does 435+90% ratio

Lux also has at least 1 passive proc for 190 base 20% ratio

I'm not going to be stupid enough to compare Lulu(Support/Mage) and Karma(Mage/Support) Lulu has 2 forms of hard CC and can give 45%-65% attack speed to a carry with 125 base+15% ratio on hit magical damage, they do different things.

Another thing to note is that almost all other mid laners can harass through minions and are able to wave clear while Karma's only choice is Q which leaves her to try and harass you when your near minions or wave clear.

Also I wanted to note that I never stated that Lulu was unbalance nor broken, just that she is better at doing what Karma is able to do because Lulu specializes at being a support while Karma is more of a generalist, which is why Lulu is usually a better option than Karma until they made the changes for Lulu's solo lane in patch 6.6 to bring her back in line as a support and not take the spotlight away from Karma in the mid lane even though the changes they keep doing to Karma. Even though Riot keeps pushes Karma more into the support lane and away from the mid lane where it will repeat the cycle of Lulu just being better than Karma again.

RivuoDec 24, 20161 votes

I think nami has too much sustain atm, I have games where even the shittiest adc atm ( Lucian ) was able to beat me up as Caitlyn because nami sustains like a mad man