@Riot Meddler Ap itemization would really benefit from Moonflair Spellblade

SunDriedTomatoes·Sep 29, 2016·114 votes·4,487 views

Ap itemization has for the most part been in a solid spot after the mid season mage update, but seeing as ad champs have the option to buy it only seems logical that ap champs have a option to get a cleasne without having a wasted 6th item if needed, as well as fleshing out more ap defensive oriented options. It also helps the fact that a build path of and would also give the items more than 1 build path than they currently have. Thoughts on the item to be added? It seems to have 0 downside to be added for the game.

EDIT: I don't think the item should have its tenacity at all but replaced with the active of QSS.

189 Comments

Full AP VenusaurSep 29, 201629 votes

The lack of AP armor items is a little frustrating, Zhonya's doesn't work on every AP champ and since so much power is loaded into the active it doesn't really give a meaningful amount of armor. Especially with 5 strong armor pen items out there.

SunDriedTomatoesSep 29, 20166 votes

Thats a great point to why it should be added, sometimes you need some armor/mr as a mage and the active can be really counter intuitive to a champ that needs 100% combat uptime.

SnowplosionSep 29, 201626 votes

I have always loved the idea of this because I think Moonflair Spellblade is such as cool item.

WarlockLawSep 29, 201614 votes

If we give AP champions cleanse, then it would only be fair to open up Stasis to ad champions. I can only get behind this if both are supported options, otherwise each role gets their own thing.

Irelia BotSep 29, 201611 votes

Akali is is getting Wet form this idea.

YumaS2AstralSep 29, 20166 votes

Malphite too

This thing would give him armor, magic resistance, and AP, three stats he really loves, on top of the tenacity (wouldn't need to build item 3111 anymore, can build item 3047 which is a much better general item for him)

Only thing this item does not give is HP.

kile147Sep 29, 20165 votes

Honestly RoA plus Moonflair is every AP bruiser's wet dream.

ZettoSep 29, 201610 votes

Frankly, no. Most mages are already hard enough to get to through a front line. An AP giving QSS item would make the lives of every non-mage, and even most mages, as this provides a huge level of defense against mages whose combos are CC dependent, a living hell.

IGotScuttleCrabsSep 29, 20167 votes

Honestly I think tenacity isn't all that great anymore. League has moved on from snares and stuns to a college frat party of knocking everything that moves up.

TattersallSep 29, 20168 votes

They also need to have item 3802 build into something other than item 3165 .

RozairSep 29, 201621 votes

they need to not have armor pen on item 3156

DêcoySep 29, 20164 votes

But then you make this item useless for Assasins. I know shield is a big thing still on this item, but Armor Pen-less Maw Vs Mercurial? I will go with QSS tbh. They already nerfed this item, so it's not as strong as it used to and it feels its role. Its a defensive item for squishy AD champions to have some form of defensive stats since building tanky is mostly not efficient.

AstôlfoSep 29, 20165 votes

I hardy see how Maw will be useless without armorpen when Hexdrinker passive is still absurdly, retardedly strong.

IGotScuttleCrabsSep 29, 20162 votes

Agreed ^ I mean Maw is the equivalent of Illaoi s passive You get AD, MR, armor pen, spell shield when low, life steal when low, spell vamp when low. They should either take away the pen or the life steal/vamp

AstôlfoSep 29, 201610 votes

I think you quoted the wrong passive. Illaoi's passive is tentacle spawning.

TheMinezSep 29, 20163 votes

That looks like a combination of Singed ult, Olaf W, and Olaf ult. Nothing to do with illaoi except for her regaining %missing hp with each slam.

LankPantsSep 29, 201610 votes

Shouldn't an assassin have to give up something to counterbuild? Right now Maw is just an absurd item that lets assassins have their cake and eat it too. They don't lose a significant amount for rushing it and it completely fucks mages over.

Zhonya's by contrast has a huge cost. In order to rush Zhonya's mages have to give up Morello's, in doing so they lose 10% CDR, 400 mana and 30 AP.

When an assassin rushes Maw over Youmuu's they only lose 5 AD, 10% CDR and 10 armour pen, assuming the active for passive is a fair trade, which it more than is, or you probably wouldn't rush it.

That's also before you compare Armguard to Hexdrinker, one of which is vastly superior to the other.

TheMinezSep 29, 20162 votes

http://i.imgur.com/FJZDzn4.png I vote for Netherstride! You need to click the link for it to be readable.

TotalJerkSep 29, 20167 votes

Holy shit Netherstride would kill almost every immobile ADC and juggernaut in the game.

AdriqnoheeSep 29, 20168 votes

Cass with Netherstride and Rylai would be unkillable.

DêcoySep 29, 20162 votes

We are talking about defensive items here, right? o: Plus, that thing costs like 1700g once you get all components. I doubt it would be good item.

If Im playing mid and I see Netherstride and Morello, I wouldnt hesitate to go for Morello. Same AP, same CDR, Lost Chapter's passive and grevious wounds. On top of that, it's 100g cheaper and building path is billion times better. I don't see how that item is really good. Cassio with this item...but she doesn't like mana regen. straight mana gives her much more, since she builds Tear every game and 400mana is not only bigger mana pool, but also 12AP once she gets Archangel - and 16-17AP when she gets Rabadon. So again, Morello on Cassio would give you combined 157-158AP, 400Mana, 20% CDR and both passives when Netherstride would give 135AP, 100% mana regen (useless stat on her), 20% CDR and small speed up (again useless stat, since she has her own speed up, has slow from Rylai and ghost is good for her anyway).

In total, you pay 3000g for 135AP and 20% CDR, when you can spend 2900g for almost 160AP, 400mana, 20% CDR, Grievious Wounds passive and Lost Chapter's passive. I don't see who would benefit from Netherstride atm .-.

Spaceman5pffSep 29, 20163 votes

You are forgetting that back then, during Black Market Brawlers, lost chapter was a made up item, and gave regen.

Nowadays when it is real it gives flat mana, as such Cassiopeia will like it arguably more than item 3165 because of the kiting power.

other champions that would massively benefit from netherstride: Ahri AurelionSol Ekko Malzahar Taliyah

We don't need more Ahri and Ekko buffs.

TheMinezSep 29, 20164 votes

There was 1 more champ that REALLY benefited from Netherstride. It applied on my top main's Q. Singed .

WarlockLawSep 29, 20163 votes

Rite of Ruin tho. Ziggs approves.

ModAcademy KaynSep 29, 20168 votes

Mages don't need a Qss. Except for the DPS Mages, most mages are meant to get their rotation off quickly, focus on surviving, repeat till done. ADC's need Qss because they need to be constantly active for their damage to amount to anything.

I also don't agree with more AP Armor items, simply because it starts to lead into the territory we have of Tanky champs that do lots of damage, while also bringing much more like Range, CC, etc. What we have now is fine.

VallalanSep 29, 20167 votes

there are two problems. its a great idea, but the item would be very hard to balance due to the fact it gave both resistances, and ap and a QSS active. it would be bought literally every game if it was ever not super duper expensive.

so we are talking basically like 50 ap, 50 armor, 50 MR and a QSS active. well in treeline the item is 2500 gold and thats only with tenacity reduction. so you are looking at way way more since QSS active is invaluable. probably 3200 + gold for an item that only gives 50 ap.

It's an option but it would have to be super expensive I feel or you would just rush it. its too good. its everything you could ever want in an ap item except mana sustain.

foristSep 29, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=TSM Brendan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vKpaEnNN,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-09-29T01:02:27.004+0000)

seeing as ad champs have the option to buy it only seems logical that ap champs have a option to get a cleasne without having a wasted 6th item if needed

This is never a good argument for anything. Ever. "Ad has this item, so ap should too" or vice versa, is never a good reason to change or add items.

Akali is SO HOTSep 29, 20166 votes

AP Itemization has been the best in the game since basically the beginning. It doesn't need more benefits. Adding this into the game would help out AP Assassins more than anything else and I know how much people love Akali, Diana, Fizz, Katarina, and Leblanc. It would be horrendously overpowered and it would have to get gutted almost immediately. Otherwise it would be a must buy on every AP champ every game. You could take out the passive and it would still be a rush item for almost everyone because of the overloaded stats. The passive is just icing on the cake. That's the equivalent of making an AD and Armor item for ADCs with tenacity attached to it.

SukishooSep 29, 20166 votes

Should Moonflair Spellblade be added into the game

Poll should say "Should Moonflair Spellblade be added into the RIFT"

KoKobotoSep 29, 20164 votes

Moon flair Spell Blade literally sounds like a special anime move lol ブレード呪文、月の才能!! http://www.team-dignitas.net/uploads/tinymce/images/diana_banner_2.jpg

Emerald FangSep 29, 20163 votes

If it gives like 70 AP, 25 Armor, and 10% CDR, sure. With the QSS passive.

TwinkieProSep 29, 20163 votes

I understand the need to add an AP item with qss in it, but AP already has the most flexible builds for build armor, ap, and mr. Armor: item 3157 and item 3050 Magic Resist: item 3001 item 3174 and item 3060

Compare to AD ( item 3742 isn't counted because it is not usable by ranged and doesnt actually increase AD to a decent amount compared to the AP gained from the other items) Armor: item 3025 Although never build on any ranged besides Ezreal , so it barely makes the cut. Magic resist: item 3156 item 3139 These are the only Items an ADC can build that gives them defensive stats. The only upside ADCs have compared to AP is lifesteal, which is irrelevant until about 3 to 4 items in and is built more often then not on crit oriented builds, which also means that the only likely defensive item built would be item 3139 .

item 3001 item 3174 together give more MR than item 3139 item 3156 , and then there is still a third option for AP, although its more of a niche item. AD almost never build armor except for item 3026 , although that works just as well on AP. The only advantage AD has is the excessive amount of armor pen Items, but the 47 points of pen can almost be negated by item 3157 alone, and there is still more armor options. ADCs have zero ways to deal with armor pen except by outsustaining thrrough lifesteal, which requires a massive amount of gold and protection from allies.

You can complain about the lack of AP armor items, but what about the lack of AD armor items? Why cant the ranged AD build glass cannon with defenses?

WinTheWarOnPantsSep 29, 201611 votes

there is a VERY good reason why there is no AD armor items. because it would literally be a 100% buy on all adcs inevery single game and it would be absolute cancer. almost every single AD champ would also have this item. AD champs can work defensive items into their build much easier than AP champs aside from the very few sustain AP champs like Cassiopeia Karthus Vladimir and the one %dmg AP mage Elise . the only exception to AD champs is ADC's since there entire kit revolves(or is supposed to anyway) around tons of dmg with AD items and very little without them. the only times adc's buy defensive items is when they absolutely can't survive without them, otherwise it's a waste if you can just out-range everyone and your teammates peel. an AD armor would be mandatory on all adc's. every single game no matter what unless APC Teemo became a thing(which it probably would if an AD armor item was introduced). In conclusion having an AD armor item is a horrible idea.

edit: also item 3050 item 3174 item 3060 are sup items. item 3157 and item 3001 are the only real hybrid offence and defenses for mages(not including HP items). is the only item of those that could possible be taken into lane and only if you're Heimerdinger but that's a whole other problem....

Gnart Even CloseSep 29, 20163 votes

A tank version would be awesome too

RalanrSep 29, 20163 votes

This would be a great item for AP tanks.

Meep ManSep 29, 20163 votes

Yes, but only when AP Bruisers get a proper looking at

Imperial JapanSep 29, 20162 votes

Can we get an AD zhonyas then? A scaling health/mana/ad item? AN item that amps up our AD by 30%?

kile147Sep 29, 20163 votes

I get what you're saying, they aren't the same and shouldn't be treated as such. One thing to keep in mind though is that IE fulfills the same role as deathcap. It's not a straight 30% AD increase, but at 70% crit the passive of IE gives a 35% DPS increase. Both are intended to be "keystone" items that multiply the other stats you've purchased.

Weiner the PoohSep 29, 20161 votes

Yeah and thats only available to ADC's.

kile147Sep 29, 20163 votes

Deathcap is really only good to build on dedicated APC's. Generally most AD champs who are designed to maximize damage output synergize with crit, even melees such as Yi, Yasuo, and Tryn. AD champs who build straight damage but don't synergize with crit are fairly rare, but usually have their kits designed to not need it. Fiora and Riven are the two best examples of this, because I don't think I've ever heard complaints about Fiora and Riven not doing enough damage despite not having a keystone item.

Toru ItaiSep 29, 20161 votes

ZonYas should be removed from the game, not given to everyone.

Imperial JapanSep 29, 20162 votes

That's a bit extreme. To it's fair extent it can only be used in fights where you're either team fighting which will get your team killed due to the 4v5 or against assassins to get rid of their initial burst

WheatloafSep 29, 20162 votes

Adding mixed offense/defense items always carries risk. There are arguments against a lot of the existing ones, even (I'm personally of the opinion that Abyssal, Mercurial, and Maw are all too good right now). In particular, they tend to benefit the champions doing the killing at least as much as the champions getting killed, because consistently being in people's faces means they're consistently getting full value from the item.

Amasa DelanoSep 29, 20162 votes

I imagine this is why we've seen some professional midlaners take summoner 1 .

NetherlifeSep 29, 20162 votes

I think you'd have to worry about the AP assassins that are building tank items getting it. Like Fizz and Ekko. Tank builds with this item would be very difficult to balance, and might not be possible to balance at all actually.

Great MutaSep 30, 20162 votes

I want to see an AP Statik Shyv or an AP Run's Hurricane.

One of the main reasons I hate playing AP champs is that they just don't have the item options AD champs have.

DarkRitualSep 30, 20168 votes

item 3285 ?

eternal ravangerSep 30, 20162 votes

Personally, i just feel that we need more Moon based items in the shop, period. There are a couple Sun based items, but none for the Illustrious moon. i mean, doesn't Diana deserve at least ONE item that has a moon theme, since Leona can have....i think 2? Sunfire cape, Locket of Iron Solari... i'm probably missing one... my point is, Show some Love for our Fair-skinned Moon Lady*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

R FLASH XDSep 29, 20161 votes

When people suggest QSS for AP everything is fine.When we want Zhonyas for AD it's either gtfo or buy GA( wich is equally good on AP and AD and has way higher cooldown than Zhonyas).Seems fair...