Without trackers knife lee sins early game ganks wouldn't be as good. Instead of removing that item you could've just nerfed it. Whats stopping the jungler from getting a relic shield for vision instead? You guys need to put trackers knife back in the game and just nerf it. It's not hard to nerf something is it? come on riot you're making a very dumb decision with this removal. Add it back now.
Chàse3 votesLee already falls off incredibly hard mid-late game, now they just made his kit terrible early game as well... feelsbadman as a lee main
Archlord Aatrox2 votestheir reasoning for removing the item was actually pathetic
HalcyonDweller2 votesNo. No. And no. Trackers knife needed to go.
Lee could need buffs afterwards, but trackers knife was a problem.
TSM JungleBanter1 votesNo. No. And no. Trackers knife needed to go.
Lee could need buffs afterwards, but trackers knife was a problem.
its the ward hop for him everything else is fine for me
HalcyonDweller3 votesRiot has been moving away from ward hops for characters over the seasons, I'm not surprised nor upset that it is now less accessible for lee.
If you want to ward hop you still have trinkets, and that tradeoff between ward-hopping and using them for actual vision is a good choice to have to make. Such a free dash on a character capable of in-sec-ing should have trade-offs and limitations.
Also, he can still dash to allies, so as long as the allies are near the enemy in lane he can still dive onto them without wasting Q. Honestly this moves his W more into its original intended use, dashing to allies to protect them with it.
Tabouli1 votesNo. No. And no. Trackers knife needed to go.
Lee could need buffs afterwards, but trackers knife was a problem.
How do you even buff him after a change like this though? I mean ward hopping was a huge part of his ganking potential and positioning(in some cases). Tweaking cooldowns does nothing, upping ratios doesn't help, putting an item that drops wards just puts you back to square one.
HalcyonDweller2 votesFor starters they could revert whatever nerfs were made after he became so strong due to ward hops.
If a champion's identity revolved around a gimmick then that champion wasn't viable to begin with. Lee should be able to function without relying on ward-hops.
He still has a gap closer with his Q, his ganks are just a little more fallible now. He can just do what Xin Zhao does and walk up to enemies or flank them, and then only use his targeted dash if they get away. I don't think that this is as big of an issue as everyone is making it out to be.
Tabouli1 votesFor starters they could revert whatever nerfs were made after he became so strong due to ward hops.
If a champion's identity revolved around a gimmick then that champion wasn't viable to begin with. Lee should be able to function without relying on ward-hops.
He still has a gap closer with his Q, his ganks are just a little more fallible now. He can just do what Xin Zhao does and walk up to enemies or flank them, and then only use his targeted dash if they get away. I don't think that this is as big of an issue as everyone is making it out to be.
Then that ruins the point of him having any diversity as a champion really. If his only interaction is going to be what Xin is already capable of (with point click to boot) then there is no reason to ever pick lee sin as he is just not as safe as picking someone like Xin who can not only isolate people, but provides more cc and overall damage output while being overall safer because of how his ult functions.
None of the nerfs that were applied to Lee Sin were due to him being able to ward hop. His ratios, cooldowns, etc were all hit because of how dominating he was in the jungle and his overall 100-0 potential while being a tanky monstrosity with his w shield and second w proc of lifesteal/spellvamp. Once those got hit he became based on mechanical skill with positioning and proper ward hop usage as part of his kit.
I agree that he shouldn't revolve around a gimmick like this, but the problem is that he does and will not be receiving a kit rework any time soon(if ever). This is quite literally the only mechanic in his kit that rewarded mastery of the champion and showed proper mechanical play with him as a whole. However, stating that his ganking potential is more fallible is a drastic understatement. Lee Sin's q is a skill shot, doesn't pass through creeps, and is less optimal than any current jungler in the game (rengar can jump, Xin point click, Sej charges through, Zac hops over, mao point click, etc). Removing his ability to position appropriately to behind enemy waves to allow him to even land his initiation takes away almost all his viability in the jungle role.
HalcyonDweller2 votesDon't fucking twist my words back on me. It's not the same as Xin. I explained how the strategy is the same, but Lee is still a very different champion from Xin.
Lee may need buffs after this, but it was still a good change to make.
Lee should be balanced around functioning without ward-hops being available all the time. It's a gimmick, not originally part of his intended design. And it gave him absurd mechanical strength that few champions could match.
uhh yeah2 votesWard Hopping is to Lee like Animation Canceling is to Riven. Riven Players that can't animation cancel makes the champ garbo. Diamond Lee Main.
uhh yeah2 votesAnd removing an item that is only abused by the top 1 percent of players is like removing karthus for the 3 one tricks that make him op.
King Flexxed2 votesthey could give lee an item that only he can get that he starts with and need to upgrade similarly to viktor
Foxynth1 votesThe only reason I felt the need to reply to this was the fact that riot did say they were removing trackers... for now. You can more than likely expect them to bring it back at some point.
TSM JungleBanter1 votesThe only reason I felt the need to reply to this was the fact that riot did say they were removing trackers... for now. You can more than likely expect them to bring it back at some point.
lee sin is my main jungler and its frustrating they are removing it instead of just nerfing the wards you get from it
Foxynth1 votesThey removed it mainly because of pro play is what I gather. A slightly less open reasoning could be that tracker's utility makes the other two jungle items obsolete on any jungler, and they wanna mix things up and offer more options to the players.
Binford1 votesin that case pretty sure that they can disable the item in pro scene despite in the cost of lee being unplayable in jungle if they really want to remove trackers and put a toll on a sightstone item
SuperSlayer5731 votesKinda odd idea, but what if they added an item to the game that placed a false ward kinda thing that is just for champs with ward hops but doesn't give vision. (for champs like Kat, jax, and of course lee). After all the reason they removed trackers is they didn't want as many wards in the game, so why not make something just for hops.