Am I the only one who isn't complaining about Kat's rework?

JustMonika13·Nov 16, 2016·10 votes·1,406 views

I mean, even if she's perceived as being on the weaker side, technically the rework was a success. She actually has a laning phase (hell, even to the point of having one of the best level 2 in the midlane, and an above average level 3) with her new skills, and yet they managed raising her skill cap simultaneously by making her more combo intensive. She isn't completely useless (kinda useless, but not completely) when she falls behind like she was pre-rework and thanks to her need proper combos she does give enough time for her target to react even when ahead (unless, like everyone, she's ridiculously fed). She's by far my favorite reworked assassin; she isn't OP like Rengo and K6, but she's pretty great once you get the hang of her combos, and she's ton of fun, though this might be my inner Yasuo enjoying the ridiculous mobility she now has.

35 Comments

feryvunnyNov 16, 20162 votes

Idk why everyone's complaining. She's really really strong. A lot of her power is just shifted into potential damage. You need to really set up your daggers well. And if you build a bit of AD in there you can abuse her AA reset for even more damage.

I'd say she's the best team-fighting/skirmishing assassin out of all the others.

JustMonika13Nov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Idk why everyone's complaining. She's really really strong. A lot of her power is just shifted into potential damage. You need to really set up your daggers well. And if you build a bit of AD in there you can abuse her AA reset for even more damage.

I'd say she's the best team-fighting/skirmishing assassin out of all the others.

Yeah. I've been using standard AP runes with defensive blues and magic pen reds all this time, but a lot of other people have used AP blues and AD reds or anything along those lines. If I'm winning or just narrowly losing level 2 and level 3 trades and all-ins most of the time, I'd imagine having even more power on her shunpo reset would change that.

Hextech gunblade is amazing on her too.

NiyumiNov 16, 20162 votes

I feel the same as you do. xD She's easily one of my favorite champs now, and she's actually really strong if you get good with her kit, even if people say she's weak or bad now.

I can also not freak out if I get killed by Kat anymore, since I know how much effort goes into her kit now. She actually takes quite a bit of skill.

AinTheBrainNov 16, 20162 votes

I thought the Kat rework was crap at first, but in all honesty I think her new kit is a lot healthier. She has counterplay, but better damage if played correctly. ~~Plus AD Kat is almost a thing now~~

Mama SorakaNov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

~~Plus AD Kat is almost a thing now~~

Someday..

Hinagiku33Nov 16, 20162 votes

Ah, the days of Season 1 and 2 Katarina, when her Q had a 0.5 AD ratio and I could buy straight Bloodthirsters and laugh as my opponent bought armor to counter me...

Sniper 0Nov 16, 20161 votes

I feel like she needed some cc mitigation because of how much more counterplay her kit has now. Other than that, the kit is quite lovely. It makes her much less one dimensional but her intentions are much clearer now... (somehow) lol

JustMonika13Nov 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zyra Suit Samus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v6zzEFnb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-16T03:47:35.482+0000)

I feel like she needed some cc mitigation because of how much more counterplay her kit has now. Other than that, the kit is quite lovely. It makes her much less one dimensional but her intentions are much clearer now... (somehow) lol

Honestly, if it were a huge issue, building Banshee's or even EoN (she does have AD scalings after all) would help with not getting instantly CCed. Even with the rework, the basic idea is still the same: try to go in only after all non-spamable CC has been used.

Sniper 0Nov 16, 20161 votes

Ehh but then the issue comes in "I have to itemize tank to make my assassin viable". Huge issue with Ekko but that was more due to it actually being viable in with his kit. Banshee's vale would be an item you get when you're already ahead. If you're behind on Kata you can't really afford to itemize into it but then you can't really afford not to? I think this is the main reason people are having issues right now. That really destroys the fantasy in my opinion.

JustMonika13Nov 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zyra Suit Samus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v6zzEFnb,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-16T04:19:12.126+0000)

Ehh but then the issue comes in "I have to itemize tank to make my assassin viable". Huge issue with Ekko but that was more due to it actually being viable in with his kit. Banshee's vale would be an item you get when you're already ahead. If you're behind on Kata you can't really afford to itemize into it but then you can't really afford not to? I think this is the main reason people are having issues right now. That really destroys the fantasy in my opinion.

Itemizing into tank when even or slightly behind isn't bad. Flyerbek often builds Sunfire as second or even first item. I said a few weeks before... with their longer burst windows, assassins are going to start building on stuff that increases their chances of survival. Having a Spellshield on an assassin that's extremely vulnerable to CC is never a bad idea. What does sound like a bad idea is having CC mitigation on one of her abilities when she still has her passive. Exchanging her current passive for one that does mitigate CC would trample on her identity of "I got the resets, now you all die and/or I barely escape."

Sniper 0Nov 16, 20161 votes

I thought the assassin update was supposed to prevent them from itemizing tank. Rito and their doublespeak... smh

JustMonika13Nov 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zyra Suit Samus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v6zzEFnb,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-16T04:46:04.027+0000)

I thought the assassin update was supposed to prevent them from itemizing tank. Rito and their doublespeak... smh

As far as I've read, the assassin update was supposed to stop Ekko in particular from building tank. All the others, especially the big four, I only saw mentions of a) making them not feel as oppressive when ahead with longer burst windows and/or more telegraphed "I'm doing this, be prepared" and b) giving them more options when behind instead of being completely useless throughout the game. At least they succeeded against tank Ekko... for now. Tank Rengar and tank Fizz are running rampant though, and I'm personally stacking a lot of health on Kat with Rylai's, Liandry's, and something like Sunfire, Banshee's, or Protobelt for more of a bruiser effect.

LordGeovanniNov 16, 20161 votes

counter play is being able to teleport to any side of any dagger or enemy and teleport right back out

YoobaNov 16, 20161 votes

On a side note, Katarina mains are the most obnoxious and toxic people in League.

Venfru MagnánimoNov 16, 20161 votes

alongside rivens, yashuos and leesings.

JustMonika13Nov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

On a side note, Katarina mains are the most obnoxious and toxic people in League.

I wouldn't know, I haven't met an actual main in game before or after rework, and Kitty Katarina on the boards only seems mildly annoying.

Poop JellyNov 16, 20164 votes

I thought it was 'Yazuos' mains :D

5000000000000000Nov 16, 20162 votes

summoner 14

RogueWillNov 16, 20161 votes

Riven?

Hencho101Nov 16, 20163 votes

Nah it's ALWAYS the Vayne / Zed that are the toxic ones(also not ALL kat mains are bitches i use to main her and i have made a promise to NEVER be toxic and i've been sticking to it)

VolcanuzNov 16, 20161 votes

Kat, Riven, Vayne, Darius are some off the top of my head. Blitz mains tend to be really vocal too and sometimes toxic. Worst ones for supp is Thresh mains, oh boy..

LordGeovanniNov 16, 20161 votes

5)other annoying champions includeing Fizz and Katarina and firoa

Hencho101Nov 16, 20161 votes

I've only played the new kat once but like... i mained the old kat a TON. And with this rework it feels like the dagger falling now allows for the back line to SEE the dagger and run from it and then kat just can't get to them, I feel like you can see where she will be to much. Now that the dagger just sits there and kinda hard to controll where it will land it can be hard for kat to act deal some damage on some one like an Ezreal / Lucian because if their mobility. I like how much she can move around in a team fight, i REALY do but it's now SOOOOOOOOOO ez for tanks to aim their cc at the daggers because thats where kat WILL go for damage. And with the lane, i liked the old kats lane much beter, the old kat could just sit there and poke with Q of minions and then go in for a E/W then walk off with that move speed, then once they get low it's just a Q/E/W/R and kill them. But now that the dagger only jumps to 3 targets it can be hard to hit the other laner w/o aiming at them 1st. And lastly one of the things i HATE MOST about the new rework is no ward hopping. Ward hopping was around 1/3ed of my lane with kat, just being able to jump to ward with E then Q ignite them can realy catch them off guard. Then with the ward hop you can forget about ganking a kat w/o her just jumping out because you ALWAYS keep 1 up so no mater what you can get out. But over all it feel like with a lot of practice i could see my self getting into her a bit but i still like the older one better

JustMonika13Nov 16, 20161 votes

I played the old Kat a bit in my earlier months of League, and I hated her laning phase. I felt absolutely useless, and even more so if I fell behind which I often did. Now there's none of that tbh, because I can start being aggressive immediately at level 2 against most other match ups. It maybe because I'm more practiced with League in general; it may be because Kat's mobility-charged rotations remind me a lot of Yasuo, someone I have tons of practice with, but the point is I'm having a much easier time laning as the new Kat.

Riot had their reasons for removing the ward hops; I don't blame them. She can arguably get out of sticky situations with more ease with her current kit. E down? W and get the shunpo reset to retreat towards a minion, or run with the W move speed, when before having her E down meant she had to wait for it to get back up.

Still, I can understand your sentiment, especially with the attachment one can form with a main and their kit. The old one wasn't my cup of tea, I suppose, but the new one is totally up my alley.

GoosetardNov 16, 20161 votes

I fucking love the rework. Used to play a lot of Kat and stopped because it felt like she had no options in lane besides engaging in an uninteresting war of attrition.

JustMonika13Nov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I fucking love the rework. Used to play a lot of Kat and stopped because it felt like she had no options in lane besides engaging in an uninteresting war of attrition.

I guess this is my sentiment. Her laning phase is a lot more dynamic and interesting, and yet it's become, at least in my opinion, the one that has one of the strongest level 2 spikes in the game, and her level 3 spike isn't half bad. It's no longer wait for level 3, trade, and potentially put yourself in danger even with the increased move speed. Now you can escape with the E reset, or even use it to finish someone off immediately at level 3.

HazyCloud7Nov 16, 20161 votes

I wish LeBlanc got as great a rework as Katarina did. New kat seems a lot more difficult to play but she looks very rewarding for players who can play her well.

Rockm SockmNov 16, 20161 votes

Her laning phase and her waveclear is completely non existent.

The more people play against the new kit, the less options you have because no one will be dumb enough to stand on daggers a month from now.

Sure, she is more mobile but she is too telegraphed and even more binary now.

Her w is a complete travesty and now only exists to set up the E.

JustMonika13Nov 16, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rockm Sockm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v6zzEFnb,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-11-16T10:21:53.302+0000)

Her laning phase and her waveclear is completely non existent.

The more people play against the new kit, the less options you have because no one will be dumb enough to stand on daggers a month from now.

Sure, she is more mobile but she is too telegraphed and even more binary now.

Her w is a complete travesty and now only exists to set up the E.

I suggested the exact opposite, her laning and her waveclear are now more relevant than they were before. Her dagger pick up AoE is a lot larger than people think, especially from viewing the highlighted area around the dagger, and most mages and even assassins don't have the early movespeed and/or mobility to retreat quickly enough. Her level 2 trades are a lot stronger when before I don't think you could even trade effectively in a manner that wasn't just spamming Q on the enemy laner when it was up. And again, the whole point of the rework was to make intentions clearer and make burst windows just a little wider in order to allow for reactions.

I mean, her old W is now integrated with her Dagger mechanic. It would have been neat to be able to throw the W dagger a short distance in a skill shot manner, but eh I guess Riot had their reasons.

Asayake 5150glowNov 16, 20161 votes

I think she's tough to deal with as a melee without gapclosers, since she will kite you in circles and you will never catch her.

Doesn't seem to take too much skill either, just some prep.

xxxDogmanxxxNov 16, 20161 votes

You know, I honestly think that all she needs is for her ult to actually deal a little bit more damage. I just played a game as Xin Zhao where my only MR came from Runes, and I just stood auto-attacking right beside an ulting Katarina. By the end of her ult, I literally, AND I DO MEAN LITERALLY, took ZERO damage from her. I had a Trinity Force, Bloodrazor, and Swiftness Boots. She had a Morello, Protobelt, and Sorc Boots. I'm pretty sure I don't sustain that much health, so her ult should have at least gotten me to half-health.

JustMonika13Nov 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You know, I honestly think that all she needs is for her ult to actually deal a little bit more damage. I just played a game as Xin Zhao where my only MR came from Runes, and I just stood auto-attacking right beside an ulting Katarina. By the end of her ult, I literally, AND I DO MEAN LITERALLY, took ZERO damage from her. I had a Trinity Force, Bloodrazor, and Swiftness Boots. She had a Morello, Protobelt, and Sorc Boots. I'm pretty sure I don't sustain that much health, so her ult should have at least gotten me to half-health.

I don't know. Maybe she didn't properly combo? I haven't had a 1 v 1 problem when it came to dealing damage until someone bought a fucking Hexdrinker / Maw. Morello isn't exactly the greatest item on her, and Protobelt is still a bit iffy, and will be even more iffy when it gets nerfed.

AinTheBrainNov 16, 20161 votes

tbf you dont build a morello or a protobelt on kat.

MrWasjigNov 16, 20161 votes

The biggest issue I have with it is all the waiting around you have to do, it utterly pile-drives her pacing.

For a champion who is supposed to zip around a fight and remain highly mobile to avoid getting killed, waiting around for daggers to land is agonisingly slow. Yes it's only 1.25 seconds, but when the faecal matter is propelled towards the rotating blade assembly, that 1.25 seconds feels kills any sense of pace or speed to playing Kat. Which, given those daggers and picking them up is your main source of damage outside of your (easily interruptible) ultimate, that's a big deal.

Yes her kit is healthier by design, but it also feels simultaneously shat on. Playing against Katarina is surely going to be a far less aggravating time, but playing as Katarina is considerably less fun even when I do manage the perfect chain-killing combo.

This isn't even considering that the daggers are unreliable. They land behind your target yes, but they land behind where they were when you threw the dagger. And fights tend to move around a lot, so your chances of even a decent dagger placement are further hindered. I tried and tried but usually I just said "Fuck it" and ulted in the centre of the team just for the sake of getting off some degree of reliable damage while they weren't paying attention to me.

Of course this is just my opinion. If she works for you then....fantastic. I'm glad someone is happy with playing a champion slowly, that's supposed to be fast paced. If someone wants to give me a rebuttal then go for it, I'd like to be convinced otherwise but I doubt I'll be able to like her new kit.