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Poppy (Buckler Passive) - Feedback after a month since the re-work

Netherby··80 votes·5,885 views

So I'v been playing Poppy since forever. The rework held a lot of interest to me. Instead of posting the instant I tried it out, I'v instead played her for a month in ladder and now will comment. I could write an essay on the subject, but I will try to keep it short.

The main thing I want to discuss today is the buckler passive, as I think this is the most frustrating/annoying part of her kit. Picking it up is an important part of her game play, but as far as I can tell the direction it travels after hitting the target is entirely random? This could be a bug, but I have it travel almost directly away from me after hitting the target on multiple occasions making it essentially impossible to pick up. While jungling it frequently lands under creeps or in extreme cases bounces over the camps wall, again making it impossible to collect.

It should always land in a place where you could pick it up, making it a tactical decision rather than an RNG event. It could be improved in a number of ways, adding an indicator for where it will bounce after you throw it and/or making the bounce more predictable would help a lot. Making it unable to land under jungle creeps or pass over walls would also improve quality of play life.

79 Comments

TheDevice28 votes

I was also thinking about this.

This could be a fairly simple fix if the buckler acted something like dravens spinning axes.

Or the direction of the buckler's landing point can be determined other ways:

You can base it on whether or not the enemy is moving or which direction they are facing.

Or it can be based on how far the enemy was when you threw the buckler.

Rendarkan7 votes

Dravens axe's are meant to lead him where he is heading hence why you can catch and throw while chasing.

ZGM Permabanned5 votes

It would be too strong on Poppy since she isn't supposed to be guaranteed to pick it up, unlike Draven.

TheDevice3 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZGM Permabanned,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvr8mNXs,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-05T04:33:06.330+0000)

It would be too strong on Poppy since she isn't supposed to be guaranteed to pick it up, unlike Draven.

Thats absurdly inconsistent for a kit especially for a skill that can determine the outcome of a fight by a large margin. I dont see a problem with adding some consistency to part of her kit that's clearly a vital portion of her power budget.

Like, Zac's passive isn't as detrimental in a fight. If poppy doesn't reach her shield or it causes her to move in an awkward position, it could completely throw any sense of "skill" to the wind. Just leaves too much to chance.

Neomea2 votes

It's already predetermined, it goes towards walls in order to open up wall slams if they try to go to destroy it.

Kaeblen1 votes

so, if that's true, why does it go over walls?

Karbuncle4 votes

To set up the rare and powerful flash over wall stun.

Neomea1 votes

Most likely a bug, I've honestly never had that happen even while right next to a wall so /shrug

RattleKnight1 votes

Zac Yall forgot me ? my Blobs are also random bounce

LGBTCute1 votes

Yeah, but I've never had a situation with Zac where I've been unable to pick up my blobs because they landed in between Big Blue and Little Blue before - the blobs are wide enough that they are easy to pick up.

I've never had my buckler go over a wall before (though I believe it can happen), and I would prefer it if picking up the buckler in a teamfight was sometimes a little dangerous (Strategic Buckler bait!).

HOWEVER it is ridiculous when my buckler lands under a jungle creep and I can't pick it up within the window of time unless I pull off some ridiculous Jungle camp kiting that would make Syndra and Nidalee go "Dang that's a lot of work for a single tiny buff".

Leadpaintchips1 votes

Except it isn't random, at least not fully. If there's a champion near you, it goes to a "contested zone", somewhere between Zac and his opponent.

Starfish H13 votes

I feel like if you throw it it should be somewhere around YOU sort of like Draven's axes but randomized. You can get to it in time but you will be punished if you don't. Also I feel like it's CD is way too long for it. I feel getting the Buckler should reduce the CD by 30% or 50%

Dominick Destine8 votes

There is already a huge reward for picking up the buckler.

Reducing the cooldown would be overkill.

Starfish H8 votes

There are huge rewards for picking it up but the fact is you can't pick it up sometimes. I once threw it at a Garen and it lands inside their turret range. How the hell am I supposed to pick that up? So I say there are 2 options. 1: Have the Buckler have better AI so it could land somewhere reasonable or 2: Keep the RNG but have it so you get a lower CD if you manage to pick it up.

Dominick Destine8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Starfish H,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvr8mNXs,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-01-04T22:18:55.818+0000)

There are huge rewards for picking it up but the fact is you can't pick it up sometimes.

That's intentional. In the same way Zac can't always pick up his blobs. It's just the design of the characters.... if you want to make the buckler easier to pick-up, it would need to be nerfed in other areas to balance it out.

OneSmoothDude3 votes

Debatable. If she were in a good spot, you're right in that it would make sense for Riot to balance out any buffs given to her. But according to champion.gg, at plat and above Poppy has a 43.45% win rate top and 44.67% win rate in the jungle. (Yeah, I know, win rate isn't everything. But come on, 44% win rate is pretty significant.)

Clearly she's not doing so hot. Some quality of life buffs aren't out of the question, in my opinion.

ZGM Permabanned4 votes

The shield is pretty strong you wont take any dmg from the tower if you decide to pick it up.

Tuss2 votes

But you might take damage from the Garen.

Netherby3 votes

It would be interesting if there was a reward to picking it up when you don't actually need the shield. Like say it reduces the CD by a percentage based on how much of the shield didn't get used. For instance if you took no damage to the shield it could reduce the CD by 50% and scale down from there.

IGotScuttleCrabs6 votes

From the start I hated the passive. A random ranged attack that comes up usually when you don't need it? No thanks. But after a month of playing her, I'm happy to say I've secured several kills with this passive.

I definitely feel ya on the jungling part. Under the monster 90% of the time and with the creep block? You have to either E them out of the way or drag them out of the camp.

I'd also enjoy a way to "semi control" when it was available.

Singing Lark5 votes

Agreed. I was expecting poppy passive to be similar to Draven axe's in the sense that you can manipulate where the buckler lands. But as of now, it seems entirely random, which can be quite annoying sometimes and loses a lot of strategical worth from the skill.

Sire Hippington4 votes

Agree, and another problem is that it gets destroyed the moment an enemy touches it. Atleast at later levels, one should have to stay atleast ~0.5sec on it to destroy it. It is very hard to utilize in teamfights atm, it often lands randomly in the path of an opponent and instantly vanishes, even if he didn't actively choose to destroy it. It also means you can't push an enemie over your buckler with E to pick up the shield... Given how important it is for her, it is way to unreliable.

Rendarkan4 votes

If you look in the tips Poppy's buckler will always land at the nearest wall away from you. It was designed to lead you to go in for damage but if you get the kill its much more effective as it auto returns.

http://prntscr.com/9m5lwh

Netherby1 votes

The problem is that it seems to go in crazy directions. Even if it does land near a wall you cannot heroic charge an enemy over the buckler in order to pick it up as they destroy it the instance they touch it. Unless you are trying to bait them into stepping on it next to a wall, that actually seems like it works counter to how you would want it to..

Rendarkan2 votes

Then you are hitting the broadside of the target.

to put this in perspective, if your target, say a minion, is standing on the left and you throw the buckler head on it will land to the left next to you close to the wall. its a triangle pattern. Same concept if you hit one on the right side head on it will veer to the right side towards the wall forming a triangle.

Now if you hit the minion while moving it visually looks like it goes in random places because of the triangle pattern formation. The buckler will always land to make the formation so if you are walking away then throw it, hitting the left side of the minion, it makes it land further away from you than you want it to.

Moral of the story: Always use it for a kill cause auto return.

Netherby1 votes

It only sometimes seems to work that way? For instance I'v had it travel almost 180 degrees away from me after hitting the target.. That's a pretty weird shaped triangle :p

Rendarkan2 votes

Then you must be moving from the point or origin of throw. The buckler lands relative to the point of throwing origin, not her current location. So if your walking perpendicular to the minion and throw it its going to land relative to where you threw.

Ideal location if not moving the shield will go , hit and land towards the wall in an isosceles triangle. If Moving it will land in relevance to when you threw it so it still lands in an isosceles triangle even though it may seem like its landing 180 degrees from you. If you hit a target that is moving away from you it will land half the distance between you and the target towards the nearest wall. If you hit a target that is moving towards you it will land in the same spot as above but your perspective will make it seem further away.

In other words, as mentioned the previous two times... Use it for kills.[slayer-jinx-wink]

Netherby1 votes

Even with this in mind it still seems rather difficult to determine where it will go.. Last hitting with it is the most effective in lane, but I mostly play jungle :p

Rendarkan1 votes

The few times I jungled with her I found getting being the big monster helped then throw the shield at the smaller ones to make it land behind the big one.

Kaeblen2 votes

sounds like a great spot for a QoL buff.

Clockwork Madoka4 votes

As someone who enjoys playing poppy in the jungle...when it flies over the wall, you feel seriously cheated.

AhegaoEpidemic1 votes

{quoted}

As someone who enjoys playing poppy in the jungle...when it flies over the wall, you feel seriously cheated.

ive never had that happen and ive been playing alot of poppy jungle since her rework

Clockwork Madoka2 votes

{quoted}

ive never had that happen and ive been playing alot of poppy jungle since her rework

When it does, you will likely just sit there for a few seconds and question how the universe feels about your existence.

The only camps I've had it occur on is the Krugs, and possibly the Gromp

The Yetii Rider3 votes

The problem I have with Poppy's passive is how LONG the animation is. Her normal autos are so smooth and clean and then you have her stop, plant both feet in place, swing her buckler forward and THEN the missile starts traveling. It's awful.

High52 votes

Maybe, but the travel time isn't long and the poke is incredibly helpful in lane.

At least early on 1-5, the hammer to me feels more sluggish than the buckler. Not Malz AA slow, but a bit sluggish.

Krigjer2 votes

The problem I have with Poppy's passive is how LONG the animation is. Her normal autos are so smooth and clean and then you have her stop, plant both feet in place, swing her buckler forward and THEN the missile starts traveling. It's awful.

This was the gist my friend had with Poppy. He said the buckler animation is so jarring from the rest of her kit because of how it plays out- that it's often gotten him killed because it kind of 'interrupts his rotation'.

Kaeblen1 votes

Her normal autos are so smooth and clean

... if you say so...

that was actually the FIRST thing I noticed when playing her: the autos are not clean

Netherby1 votes

That can be a bit annoying when you're trying to move between auto attacks. The buckler comes up and you move too quickly and cancel the attack because the timing is so different to the regular swings.

Gigahappytown3 votes

NTY

Poppys lanephase is absurd

she does not need a 15% health shield in teamfights

Netherby2 votes

And she currently has no late game scaling, so she really does need that shield in team fights..

Gigahappytown4 votes

{quoted}

And she currently has no late game scaling, so she really does need that shield in team fights..

>12% max health damage >no scaling >almost 30 bonus mr and armor >no scaling >completely stops all dashes and leaps >no scaling >completely remove enemy(s) from a fight >no scaling

Alëk4 votes

Im pretth sure hes talking about her damage. Her q damage is mediocre at best even with the hp dmg. Ofcourse she has defensive scaling shes a tank. Which tank doesnt habe defensive scalings. And how does one blocked dash influence her scaling? That doesnt even male sense. Overall her damage scales weakly into lategame

A Bad Mystic2 votes

{quoted}

And she currently has no late game scaling, so she really does need that shield in team fights..

Maybe its because im complete and utter shit, but i havent had a problem transitioning from lane to teamfights in any way that keeps me from fulfilling a role as a tank to soak damage and keep enemies off of my allies.

http://plays.tv/video/568b71bc67c8ef7be9

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

I just want it to have the same attack speed as her normal attack.

High52 votes

Very reasonable request. In lane it's not a problem and does add a bit of fun. I like winning games of chicken, picking up the buckler, then smashing people into walls.

I have seen the bucler problem (going over a wall at red or blue buff for example) when stealing jungle camps later in the game. I'd image it'd be far more annoying at 1:40 in vs 20:00 in though.

+1 for a clear, concise and well constructed post.

Baron Perenolde2 votes

I guess it's a good thing I play support Poppy and don't have to worry about the buckler flying over walls. That sounds really annoying, to be honest.

aítch2 votes

It kinda works like Draven in my experience (30k mastery since I started playing her rework). honestly I don't mind that because the actual damage is what you really want to use her passive for (I play her mid not this top, sup, jg stuff). Honestly I think her w is more utilized in mid lane. ALSO ** DID YOU KNOW THAT IF VOLI FLIPS AN ENEMY AS YOU ULT HIM AS POPPY THEY TAKE THE ULT DAMAGE BUT NEVER GO INVULNERABLE AND THEY ONLY GO THROUGH THE VOLI FLIP ANIMATION HOLY SHIT THIS IS FUN TO DO **

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Say no mo

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/tj99ntLT-poppy-needs-some-tlc

Netherby2 votes

Definitely agree that Q could use a slight range increase and the self slow on R really isn't necessary, but I mainly wanted to focus on the passive mechanics since they are the most frustrating!

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

The passive is in there o_o

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