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Is It Really GG?

Shohx··3 votes·982 views

I'm pretty sure a lot of people can agree with me on this but LP should be gained or lost by participation to the team and game as a whole. For example the 0/9/4 Yorick with no game presence what so ever loses maybe -20 LP where as the 9/5/7 Olaf with heavy map presence 2 dragon steals and 3 towers only would lose maybe -7 LP. Vice versa goes for winning, more participation to the team gains more LP with a cap at like +22 LP or something. Because as the current game state is we can't do anything but report for someone running it down and feeding their lane.

It greatly effects peoples outlooks and want to play this game, especially with all the changes based around professional play, it kind of makes it hard for someone to want to play. Because you either have one of 2 ally ways you get frustrated and you turn toxic, or you get frustrated and stop playing overall. I quit 6 months ago because I was in my gold series and had a top laner afk after 2 deaths, the next match my mid decided to run it down from the beginning of the match, and for my third loss in my series trundle afk'ed at 10 minutes.

Losing the series isn't what made me quit though it was the fact that I gained only 17-19 LP for winning each of the matches to get into the series but for each of the matches I lost, I dropped -21 to even 25 LP. Returning again months later to nearly the same game hoping some God will bless me with decent teamates I get into promotionals with nearly the same thing happening. Because whether you win or lose is heavily based on RNG of what type of teamates you are going to get. That is where the ELO hell still lives, I wish I could say GG for most of my games but usually they aren't actually GOOD games usually one side or the other gets fed like an olympic god. We have people in bronze that should at least be in gold and people in silver that should at least be in plat but the LP system is a literal trap for those unfavored by luck. TwistedFate

14 Comments

DrCyanide7 votes

Problem is determining impact.

Did the 0/9/4 Yorick continually draw 2 or 3 enemies top to keep him from getting alone time with the tower? Did he body block CC for the ADC I'm a key team fight?

Did Olaf only show up to steal a kill and attack a tower once or twice to kill it? Did he have to steal the dragons because he didn't listen to his team earlier when they could have gotten them uncontested?

A computer can't make MVP calls on each decision that happens in the game. Without that, you end up with "oh, my stats are higher, so I must be more important" mentality, even if the reason the stats are higher is because you took actions that made it harder for your team to win.

Shohx1 votes

Which I do agree with very much so but this is also the same computer that implemented a system for mastery on what determines if you get S grade for that champion based around most of the same statistics. Champion damage, objective damage, and ability usage is all logged if you're not aware, the game very much so determines whether or not you are using your abilities to aid or steal kills. And let alone their are plenty of third parties that they could enlist to code as well that have made algorithms that do determine these factors.

DrCyanide3 votes

The current grades are frequently gamed. Need an easy S? Play someone in an off meta role, like Annie Jungle. They are stuck comparing Champion + Role, which doesn't help at all for comparing a Yorick Top to a Olaf Jungle. Maybe Olaf Jungle is just stupid easy compared to Yorick Top on a given patch, so he should have a significantly better KDA if the player skill is the same.

Even if you log what a player is doing, the best plays won't be determined by the log. Say for instance a Ryze ults his team out of the Baron pit just as they secure Baron, but before the enemy team could catch them. Big play, but on the ability logs it'd look exactly the same as him ulting his team out just before the Baron died giving it over for free to the other team. Or like the earlier Yorick example, him body blocking some CC so a teammate can survive is a big play, but looks like a bad thing on the logs because it just increases his time spent CCed.

In the end, there's only one metric that makes sense to use: did you end up winning the game or not?

Shohx1 votes

{quoted}

Even if you log what a player is doing, the best plays won't be determined by the log.

I think you should really look into the algorithms developed by mobalytics you might be surprised some of the stuff they log as actually beneficial or crucial to the game outcome. I think the issue is the the Riot dev team spends too much time balancing the game around the Pro scene where as they spend little time and efforts on the recreational play side. Sure it takes time to develop things like that as Mobalytics took 4 years to develop their algorithm with it adapting and changing over the years, but the outcome yields results.

Shohx1 votes

And this doesn't simply go down to how you played this could simply be effected by the game detecting feeding or leaving AFTER remake allotted time and giving that player - LP and the other players only a little - LP or none at all. Which would be easy to determine with coding. But as I said they are so focused on the professional side of things that these issues get little to no care.

Shohx1 votes

{quoted}

And this doesn't simply go down to how you played this could simply be effected by the game detecting feeding or leaving AFTER remake allotted time and giving that player - LP and the other players only a little - LP or none at all. Which would be easy to determine with coding. But as I said they are so focused on the professional side of things that these issues get little to no care.

And also by doing so they could heavily improve community outlook and want to play. Because losing to a legitimate intentional feeder or afker is one the most discouraging things in this game. I personally don't want to play another ranked match after that and if I do them I'm not in good spirits.

Shohx1 votes

https://mobalytics.gg/ being a great example of one of these third parties.

Sire Hippington1 votes

Then take a carefull read on it.

to quote from the section for powerplays: "we realize that there are a lot of factors not under your controll, BUT OVER MANY GAMES , good players will consistently create more opportunities"

The key part here is over MANY games. Mobalytics know exactly that their stats tell little over a players performance in a single game, however, they grant a good insight on a players performance over many games. And know what else does a good job at indicateing a players performance over MANY games? The current mmr system. It might not be pretty, it might not be perfect, but in the grand scale it does it's job for people that play alot, just how any similar system, aka moblytics, does a good job for people that play alot and thus gaher alot data, while it does next to nothing on a game to game bases.

CIayman2 votes

LP gains and losses are based on MMR

Everyone who votes yes is just a hardstuck silver who has convinced themselves that they're "hard carrying" just because they have a good kda, as if that's the only thing that determines if you're a good player

WukongMain1 votes

No

Sire Hippington1 votes

Sounds fine in theory, but is not practicable in reallity. League is to complex and the actuall performance of a player deoends on to many different factors to capture it all in an algorythm that neccesarily has to be based on arbitray statistics. Best guess on how well a player perfomed under the given circumstances would be a proffesnional analyst watching the game in spectator, saveing reccordings and watch it again to really make sure he knows what's going on, and even then it would be an subjective opinion rather than an objective truth, and also not realisically applieable anyway. The current mastery system probably is the best proof, i'm sure everyone had plenty games where they really wondered why they got their rateing, and i for one rarly feel that the highest masterie grade(in a given game) equals the highest game impact...

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

The problem is that it'd cause too much focus on score-related things. You'd have people focusing on what increases their LP instead of what actually wins the game, simply leading to more losses.

It's also really, really hard to gauge impact for a computer. A Nasus may have mediocre stats, yet have been the sole reason his team was able to win, because he was constantly drawing ~3 people to handle him. Meanwhile, someone could have just been KSing and only showing up at the last second to handle things.

Shohx1 votes

Once again I'm not specifically just referring to if a player is carrying or not. This boils down to something as simple as a leaver detector after the allotted time for remake. That if put into place only the leaver receives negatives. Same goes for feeding, these are the issues that needs to be addressed that aren't. As I said I wasn't disgruntled that I'm "I'm carrying games" and losing. I'm disgruntled that I lose so much LP to leavers and legitimate feeders. Because as it may not be an issue for others as much so but there are some people just doomed with bad luck to more consistently run into them than others. And that's not fair to their LP gains, I feel like their is a biased opinion that the system is fine because there are people that are doing well with it. But there are a lot of people also being abused by it. There is a system that already is in place that detects leavers within the first couple minutes of the match and lets you remake. But there is no system in place for what happens after that first couple of minutes....

Shohx1 votes

I don't so much care about the games we lost because the enemy team just played better. I care about the games that were never winnable because we were one man down or had a feeder. It's a competitive game loss happens and that's what we learn from. But I hate having to not only fight the ladder but I also have to fight leavers and feeders, it doesn't balance out for me... Maybe for some of you it does but if you look at my last 50 matches there were 29 leavers or feeders and by feeders I don't mean having a bad game I mean have a score of 0/10/0 or worse... How do I climb with that in my way and also just losing games??

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