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Sion's Passive

Ludes··6 votes·2,239 views

Sion It's weak and I would really love for someone to prove me wrong.

Before I start my rant I want to start by saying I love the rework and i rather enjoy Sion both top lane and in the jungle thus far. That being said, lets take a look at it. When you die, you come back for a short time with increased damage, attack speed and life steal. Seems cool, fits the lore but right off the bat there is a HUGE reason it's weak. WHILE YOUR ALIVE IT DOES NOTHING!!! While you are alive (which should be the majority of the game) SIon has NO PASSIVE. I guess you could argue that this deters people from wanting to fight you out of fear of you just coming back and stomping there face which in a way is kinda of a passive. But then you actually get into a situation like this, you get into a fight, you (unfortunately lose) but HAZAHHH your passive!!! I'LL SHOW THEM. But, your freezed for a second.... Which means anyone with half a brain will start to run from you. But ok you have a movement speed buff, you catch up to them but it only lasts 1.5 seconds so they keep running. By this time, you are draining HP at an EXCEPTIONAL rate. Not to mention that if the enemy has any type of a leap forget any chance of catching them. Sure if you had a frozen mallet (wink) this would allow you to better stick to your enemy and maybe get a kill. BUT THAT THEN PUTS A PRICE AT WHICH YOUR PASSIVE IS EFFECTIVE!!!!! Oh did I mentioned that you can get stunned/slowed or any cc during your passive? Cause you can so if you do, gg.

Then the argument of "Uh well in team fights it's better because people are grouped" and if they run from you, they aren't fighting you team which creates peel. All logical arguments... except the fact that during team fights there is normally large amounts of AOE damage all over the place, along with large amounts of CC and peel all over the place. This all mixed with how quickly your HP drains equals out to a highly unlikely chance that you will actually get a kill or be a factor in the fight once you are dead.

Now sure, there are some situations were I'm sure the passive is like OMG SION SAVES THE DAY! You get in a team fight, you lose, they have 1 maybe 2 person up who could win the game who are low with everything on cool down. You come back and boom, double ace, both teams dead, game goes on. But the likelihood of those few situations seems extremely low.

I really think this is the only flaw in the Sion rework, but it happens to be a big one.

Thoughts, comments and concerns? Feel free.

Thank's for reading.

15 Comments

Vongeo2 votes

It would be cool if he lived long enough to feel like old sion where a stun or not hitting stuff would be his death but until then he was invincible.

hobomann22 votes

kog'maw also has "no passive" and yea

Ludes2 votes

Yes Kog maw does have an on death passive but there's a few differences.

  1. You cant stun/slow/cc Kog maw
  2. Kog has CONSTANT increased movement speed so it's very hard to run from him
  3. Kog does a one time AOE NUKE damage (He explodes).

Basically If you don't use some kind of gap closer (flash or something) you're not gonna get away from him and take a lot of damage. And in a team fight if the enemy team doesn't disperse (or already won) they are all going to take a lot of damage. Running (using skills to get away) or tanking the damage are your only options to get away, Kog can not be "delt with". Sion on the other had can be dealt with in MANY ways literally just running is one of them and extremely effective.

Vegas Dad1 votes

Yes Kog maw does have an on death passive but there's a few differences.

  1. You cant stun/slow/cc Kog maw
  2. Kog has CONSTANT increased movement speed so it's very hard to run from him
  3. Kog does a one time AOE NUKE damage (He explodes).

Basically If you don't use some kind of gap closer (flash or something) you're not gonna get away from him and take a lot of damage. And in a team fight if the enemy team doesn't disperse (or already won) they are all going to take a lot of damage. Running (using skills to get away) or tanking the damage are your only options to get away, Kog can not be "delt with". Sion on the other had can be dealt with in MANY ways literally just running is one of them and extremely effective.

Hate stupid people, it gives him movement speed. he can still use abilties. All things kog doesnt get, yet you act like kogs is better....

Ludes1 votes

Yes Kog maw does have an on death passive but there's a few differences.

  1. You cant stun/slow/cc Kog maw
  2. Kog has CONSTANT increased movement speed so it's very hard to run from him
  3. Kog does a one time AOE NUKE damage (He explodes).

Basically If you don't use some kind of gap closer (flash or something) you're not gonna get away from him and take a lot of damage. And in a team fight if the enemy team doesn't disperse (or already won) they are all going to take a lot of damage. Running (using skills to get away) or tanking the damage are your only options to get away, Kog can not be "delt with". Sion on the other had can be dealt with in MANY ways literally just running is one of them and extremely effective.

Hate stupid people, it gives him movement speed. he can still use abilties. All things kog doesnt get, yet you act like kogs is better....

First off, really don't need the insults. Second, His ability is 1 movement speed buff that last decays over 1.5 seconds, kogmaw has permenent movement speed, sion can be CCed, kog maw cant, Sion has to attack to do his damage to 1 person, kogmaw has to be near ppl and hits multiple. Im not sure what ur not getting im simply stating that kogmaws ultimate has more of an impact bc its easer to land

wolfax2 votes

There are several "on death" passives. They're not the best, but the champions kits are usually designed around it.

Ludes1 votes

There are several "on death" passives. They're not the best, but the champions kits are usually designed around it.

This true, but Sion's isn't really designed around him. In life, he is a tanky, aoe damage dealing, CC machine. In death, he's a melee ADC with no skills who dies really easily.

Narasimha2 votes

The fact that he gets a 'second wind' to do plenty of damage balances itself out. Its meant to shine in teamfights, not in 1v1s.

Ludes2 votes

The fact that he gets a 'second wind' to do plenty of damage balances itself out. Its meant to shine in teamfights, not in 1v1s.

I discussed the team fight aspect of his passive pretty thoroughly, it's fairly negligible to any half coordinated team.

Centuros1 votes

In life, Kog'Maw is a slow but long-ranged piece of living artillery. In death, he has to chase down his target within a few seconds to get a bit of fixed damage. This is a lot harder if they killed you from range (where you want to be anyway if you have a choice), and anyone with a dash or blink will get out of the AOE right before it goes off...

I agree that Sion's delay on activating is a bad thing, though.

LordTobiothan2 votes

Really he just needs to have the perma speed buff instead of it being activated, no delay after death, and not have a maximum lifespan, so as long as he lifesteals he keeps living.

Ludes1 votes

I'd also love to hear any suggestions for his passive.

Ludes1 votes

Hoboman2, maybe if Sion's was more like Kog's, were he simply has more damage, movement speed and were un-targetable but only had a certain amount of time before he died It would be more useful.

Shosuko1 votes

idk - revive passives like Zac and Aatrox have a downtime between death and revive and it works for them. The main difference is that they get to keep living if they don't get killed. Running away is not an acceptable option if your opponent still wants the kill. This gives them an incentive to stay and fight, or a penalty for taking the easy escape.

Champions like Kog and Karthus have zero downtime between when they die and their death mode activates and like Sion both of these champions are dead the moment their health bar is exhausted. There isn't a trade off for anyone to stick around, you just gtfo and it's done. This makes their death passives a bit tougher to use 1v1 or when picked, but makes them very powerful in objective team fights where the enemy team likely needs to stay in the area (fighting in baron pick, protecting inhib ect).

I feel that Sion was given the delay because they modeled his death passive like Zac and Aatrox, but overlooked the fact that Sion cannot keep his life. This delay is 100% killer to his passive threat. Even in a late game team fight the delay between dying and his passive picking up really stops his passive from being useful enough.

I haven't played him myself to say accurately what I feel should be done - but based on other death passive models he should either 1) have the potential to stay alive if not killed again (maybe have health reduced to 1, but require damage for that last health point) or 2) have it activate significantly quicker since a player needs only escape him to negate his passive's effect.

Maybe I'm the minority - but I'm pretty confident Riot will re-visit this in a month and make tweaks, but for now we're stuck with exactly what he is.

usukd1 votes

Sion is not weak, every game I have been in he gets completely fed then my team is too scared to leave our base so the enemies just farm to get fed if they aren't then gg.

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