Hi Meddler!
Posting it here so you'll se it, there's a TL;DR at the bottom if you're busy, but if you can I'd love feedback on my favorite champ: Veigar.
Nothing to do with Lucian or Fervor, I was hoping I could ask you about
for a minute. He really just doesn't seem to fit the theme of a "Tiny master of Evil", what with his laning being so horrendous, and I think that's by and large because of his E. You guys fixed him back in 5.4 because Support Veigar was getting a lot of play on the pro level (and he was a sleeper op for years with his instant AoE stun on the E) and one of the main changes you did was put a delay on his Event Horizon. This is all well and fine, but it got tweaked such that it is even stronger than it was in teamfights because it can stop dashes, but next to useless in the laning phase. With his E so strong, Riot can't possibly justify adding power to the other parts of his kit. So now his Q is also a skill-shot to decrease the reliability. Combined with his Q now being a line skill-shot, it's also blocked by 2 minions, and his W with a 1.25 second delay, Veigar is the one of the worst champs in the game from a solo-lane aspect, on par with Soraka after her rework. Certainly the worst laning for a mage designed for the solo-lane role. And the thing is, before the rework he could actually lane somewhat decently. There really hasn't been a champ whose core play changed so much since the nerfs of S2 Diana/Olaf. It's not about the win-rate, it's about being able to play him without having to play a bitch in lane and through the mid-game. Katarina, whose win-rate is abysmal currently because she now takes a ton of skill, still feels really good to lane with because she can at least trade with her Q. I get that pre-5.4 Veigar will likely never exist, and that's fine. I just want a tiny master of evil who feels evil, not who feels almost non-existent until it's time to teamfight. I have a few suggestions on actual ways to help balance him, and I'm hoping you'll hear me out.
I'll start with the biggest offender of Viegar's kit, his E.
Event Horizon: This has to be tuned down considerably to be made usable in a 1v1 and still feel decent for both Veigar and his opponent. Right now it feels like crap to Veigar in lane because it's near impossible to catch a single opponent, and you can't even use it as a quick getaway anymore. For starters, it should no longer stop dashes, but apply the stun on the end like it used to. I'd also recommend either having the duration of the stun be 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 or bringing the range back. The second part is most important: it absolutely cannot give the EXACT location where it will land. Veigar cannot even get picks from fog of war with his E in the same way you can get a Morg Q or land a Sej ult. So, his E needs to be a skill-shot with a path. Think of it as traveling in the same way Lux's E does, just a bit slower (1000 speed instead of 1300). Enemies will be able to see the E coming and react, but it can also be cast from fog of war for better effectiveness (which currently cannot happen as the warning particles give the same length of warning regardless). They'll know the general area to avoid, but it's not going to be screaming "DON'T STEP HERE AND YOU'RE FINE" like live. Veigar will be able to use it more quickly when playing defensively (casting on top of himself) or when trying to move in close (putting himself at more risk) to try to better get it off on his enemies. The delay will take longer the farther the range he hopes to use it at, giving the enemy more time to react. This way, when it's dodged you don't feel like "of course they'll dodge it they see right were it'll be" but when it hits you won't get the "That was fucking bullshit" like you used to with pre-rework Veigar (well, you won't get it as much. It'll feel like you were outplayed, more than complete BS).
Baleful Strike (Q): This would be Veigar's second biggest offender. On it's own it's not bad, but it's the infinite scaling mini-game which makes it tricky to balance. Pre-5.4 you could use it to harass or CS to increase your AP, but not both. After the change to a skill shot, it was limited to killing 2 units so that Veigar couldn't farm 6 AP per wave in the mid-late game. But this also crippled his ability to deal with enemies early. While his Q does 230+60% of his AP to 2 targets, Syndra can deal 230+75%AP to anything in the area of her sphere, Lux's E has 10 more base damage and the same scaling, but damages everyone in a large AoE. Lissandra, Ziggs, Ahri, Anivia, Viktor, the list of mages with skill-shots dealing the same (or better) base damage and scaling to ALL enemies in the area they hit (whether a line like Lissandra and Viktor or a sphere like Ziggs and Syndra). They're not limited to dealing damage to just 2 targets unless there's another powerful aspect to them, such as Lux's Q with it's snare. So we have to fix Veigar's Q as well. There are a few ways to do this.
#1) Baleful strike only grants a stack of Phenominal Evil on the first unit it kills. It is no longer limited to only targeting 2 units.
This version keeps Viegar more in line with how Riot wanted the rework to go (skill-shot) and gives him a lot less potential to farm AP massively early (removing potential abuse of flat stacking AP runes and AFK farming waves for 5-10 minutes). It also improves his ability to lane by both adding wave clear and a more reliable damage source, as you can no longer sit behind your melee minions to zone him (you'll actually have to dodge). Stacks of Phenominal Evil can still be gained by damaging enemy champions with his Q. In this version his team fight and 1v1 potential are strongest but require the most skill and he can be outplayed more easily.
#2) Baleful strike no longer grants a stack of Phenominal Evil upon hitting an enemy champion, unless that champion is killed (still grants stacks on minions/monsters). It is now a targeted spell again with a range of 525 (the range of his auto-attack, so in this way it works the same as Annie's Q). The cooldown and base damages have been reverted to 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 / 4 and 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260.
Basically, he get's his old Q back (minus 125 range) but it cannot grant AP stacks on hitting champions like his W/E/R can. He again has to decide whether he needs to farm AP or trade with his Q, but he cannot possibly do both at the same time. In this version his 1v1 and teamfight are more reliable, but he doesn't carry the same damage potential to multiple targets as before.
Dark Matter (W): With tweaks to the rest of his kit, this spell probably doesn't need to be touched.
Primordial Burst (R) It feels rather weak now because it's an execute, and because Veigar can't land any reliable damage to have the threat of that execute. As much as I'd like to put some more umph back into it (I really liked the flat 120% AP with 80% enemy AP) I think this also would need to remain untouched until the Q and E changes were examined. With being able to get damage off more reliably, it might even be a tad strong, who knows?
TL;DR Veigar's Q and E are the biggest problems with balancing his kit, and need to be reworked so he can better fit his theme as a master of evil.
Event Horizon (E) is now a skill shot like Lux's E (but slower) however it no longer stops dashes and the stun time is reduced.
Veigar's Q doesn't have a huge CC effect like Morgana and Lux, nor massive nuke potential like Nidalee and Jayce (ranged). It is currently limited in targets it can hit because being able to reliably Q a wave for 6 AP every time is beyond broken. Therefore Q should be reworked in 1 of 2 ways:
- It remains a skill shot and travels through all units in its path, but only grants AP on the first unit killed
- It is reverted to the exact stats of his pre-rework Q, except it's range matches his auto-attack range. It no longer grants stacks of Phenominal Evil when dealing damage to champions because it is a targeted ability like Annie's Q (though he still gets stacks if they're killed by it).