@Meddler Is Lucian being looked at for direct buffs?

TheAdax··14 votes·16,860 views

So my main man Lucian got hit really hard with the preseason changes. TBH the original nerf due to his GB/BC build that put him at around a 47/48% win rate was a bit rough. Now that the preseason changes are in he is sitting at 46.33% winrate with a 15% playrate and both numbers are continuing to fall.

I saw that there are ferver buffs on the PBE but Im not sure that these will be enough.

As it stands, Lucian, who is supposed to be a lane bully, loses lane to just about every ADC including Vayne and Twitch.

So my question is: Is Lucian getting looked at for any buffs to help his laning phase? I personally think upping the early game passive % would do wonders for him without making him too OP.

I appreciate any insight and as always keep up the good work.

47 Comments

RiotMeddler13 votes

Not directly yet. Lucian's performance has certainly dropped a noticeable amount, which makes sense given the item changes in particular. We do think he should be stronger than he currently is, we want to look at some systemic changes first though that are affecting a number of Marksmen, Fervor being weak in particular. Current plan as a result is to buff Fervor in 6.24, possibly with some other systemic changes, and then assess underperforming marksmen like Lucian in 7.1 again.

Hige1 votes

sistemic changes as in marksmen items? or just masteries?

Shadow Hazard1 votes

Please say that kindred is on the list of to look at marksman.

Carnicore3 votes

She benefits a lot from Fervor too.

Focuz Riven1 votes

Fervor is good on Champs like Riven now since she does many autoattacks just with her Q combo. if this buff comes through. will u guys have to nerf her and others like Fiora, Kyle etc?

Arctic Wolf1 votes

Hi Meddler!

Posting it here so you'll se it, there's a TL;DR at the bottom if you're busy, but if you can I'd love feedback on my favorite champ: Veigar.

Nothing to do with Lucian or Fervor, I was hoping I could ask you about Veigar for a minute. He really just doesn't seem to fit the theme of a "Tiny master of Evil", what with his laning being so horrendous, and I think that's by and large because of his E. You guys fixed him back in 5.4 because Support Veigar was getting a lot of play on the pro level (and he was a sleeper op for years with his instant AoE stun on the E) and one of the main changes you did was put a delay on his Event Horizon. This is all well and fine, but it got tweaked such that it is even stronger than it was in teamfights because it can stop dashes, but next to useless in the laning phase. With his E so strong, Riot can't possibly justify adding power to the other parts of his kit. So now his Q is also a skill-shot to decrease the reliability. Combined with his Q now being a line skill-shot, it's also blocked by 2 minions, and his W with a 1.25 second delay, Veigar is the one of the worst champs in the game from a solo-lane aspect, on par with Soraka after her rework. Certainly the worst laning for a mage designed for the solo-lane role. And the thing is, before the rework he could actually lane somewhat decently. There really hasn't been a champ whose core play changed so much since the nerfs of S2 Diana/Olaf. It's not about the win-rate, it's about being able to play him without having to play a bitch in lane and through the mid-game. Katarina, whose win-rate is abysmal currently because she now takes a ton of skill, still feels really good to lane with because she can at least trade with her Q. I get that pre-5.4 Veigar will likely never exist, and that's fine. I just want a tiny master of evil who feels evil, not who feels almost non-existent until it's time to teamfight. I have a few suggestions on actual ways to help balance him, and I'm hoping you'll hear me out.

I'll start with the biggest offender of Viegar's kit, his E.

Event Horizon: This has to be tuned down considerably to be made usable in a 1v1 and still feel decent for both Veigar and his opponent. Right now it feels like crap to Veigar in lane because it's near impossible to catch a single opponent, and you can't even use it as a quick getaway anymore. For starters, it should no longer stop dashes, but apply the stun on the end like it used to. I'd also recommend either having the duration of the stun be 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 or bringing the range back. The second part is most important: it absolutely cannot give the EXACT location where it will land. Veigar cannot even get picks from fog of war with his E in the same way you can get a Morg Q or land a Sej ult. So, his E needs to be a skill-shot with a path. Think of it as traveling in the same way Lux's E does, just a bit slower (1000 speed instead of 1300). Enemies will be able to see the E coming and react, but it can also be cast from fog of war for better effectiveness (which currently cannot happen as the warning particles give the same length of warning regardless). They'll know the general area to avoid, but it's not going to be screaming "DON'T STEP HERE AND YOU'RE FINE" like live. Veigar will be able to use it more quickly when playing defensively (casting on top of himself) or when trying to move in close (putting himself at more risk) to try to better get it off on his enemies. The delay will take longer the farther the range he hopes to use it at, giving the enemy more time to react. This way, when it's dodged you don't feel like "of course they'll dodge it they see right were it'll be" but when it hits you won't get the "That was fucking bullshit" like you used to with pre-rework Veigar (well, you won't get it as much. It'll feel like you were outplayed, more than complete BS).

Baleful Strike (Q): This would be Veigar's second biggest offender. On it's own it's not bad, but it's the infinite scaling mini-game which makes it tricky to balance. Pre-5.4 you could use it to harass or CS to increase your AP, but not both. After the change to a skill shot, it was limited to killing 2 units so that Veigar couldn't farm 6 AP per wave in the mid-late game. But this also crippled his ability to deal with enemies early. While his Q does 230+60% of his AP to 2 targets, Syndra can deal 230+75%AP to anything in the area of her sphere, Lux's E has 10 more base damage and the same scaling, but damages everyone in a large AoE. Lissandra, Ziggs, Ahri, Anivia, Viktor, the list of mages with skill-shots dealing the same (or better) base damage and scaling to ALL enemies in the area they hit (whether a line like Lissandra and Viktor or a sphere like Ziggs and Syndra). They're not limited to dealing damage to just 2 targets unless there's another powerful aspect to them, such as Lux's Q with it's snare. So we have to fix Veigar's Q as well. There are a few ways to do this.

#1) Baleful strike only grants a stack of Phenominal Evil on the first unit it kills. It is no longer limited to only targeting 2 units.

This version keeps Viegar more in line with how Riot wanted the rework to go (skill-shot) and gives him a lot less potential to farm AP massively early (removing potential abuse of flat stacking AP runes and AFK farming waves for 5-10 minutes). It also improves his ability to lane by both adding wave clear and a more reliable damage source, as you can no longer sit behind your melee minions to zone him (you'll actually have to dodge). Stacks of Phenominal Evil can still be gained by damaging enemy champions with his Q. In this version his team fight and 1v1 potential are strongest but require the most skill and he can be outplayed more easily.

#2) Baleful strike no longer grants a stack of Phenominal Evil upon hitting an enemy champion, unless that champion is killed (still grants stacks on minions/monsters). It is now a targeted spell again with a range of 525 (the range of his auto-attack, so in this way it works the same as Annie's Q). The cooldown and base damages have been reverted to 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 / 4 and 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260.

Basically, he get's his old Q back (minus 125 range) but it cannot grant AP stacks on hitting champions like his W/E/R can. He again has to decide whether he needs to farm AP or trade with his Q, but he cannot possibly do both at the same time. In this version his 1v1 and teamfight are more reliable, but he doesn't carry the same damage potential to multiple targets as before.

Dark Matter (W): With tweaks to the rest of his kit, this spell probably doesn't need to be touched.

Primordial Burst (R) It feels rather weak now because it's an execute, and because Veigar can't land any reliable damage to have the threat of that execute. As much as I'd like to put some more umph back into it (I really liked the flat 120% AP with 80% enemy AP) I think this also would need to remain untouched until the Q and E changes were examined. With being able to get damage off more reliably, it might even be a tad strong, who knows?


TL;DR Veigar's Q and E are the biggest problems with balancing his kit, and need to be reworked so he can better fit his theme as a master of evil.

Event Horizon (E) is now a skill shot like Lux's E (but slower) however it no longer stops dashes and the stun time is reduced.

Veigar's Q doesn't have a huge CC effect like Morgana and Lux, nor massive nuke potential like Nidalee and Jayce (ranged). It is currently limited in targets it can hit because being able to reliably Q a wave for 6 AP every time is beyond broken. Therefore Q should be reworked in 1 of 2 ways:

  1. It remains a skill shot and travels through all units in its path, but only grants AP on the first unit killed
  2. It is reverted to the exact stats of his pre-rework Q, except it's range matches his auto-attack range. It no longer grants stacks of Phenominal Evil when dealing damage to champions because it is a targeted ability like Annie's Q (though he still gets stacks if they're killed by it).
Aizeroth1 votes

You shouldn't post this here , instead make your own thread in the forums if you want to talk about Veigar. Also you are wrong about Veigar being weak. He may be played rarely but he has a 49.81% win rate which places him higher than a lot of champions in the game. Aside from that I play Veigar myself (Level 6) and I have never gotten below A- rating in any game and his laning phase is nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. It's actually good compared to someone like Lissandra . Also you can't just compare 1 specific champion ability to another because It's part of a WHOLE kit which makes the balance of a champion. Veigar is fine as is and this comes from someone that will keep playing Veigar for a while.

Arctic Wolf1 votes

I've played plenty of Veigar since the changes (level 7, got it the day after mastery 7 became available because it's easy to do and means literally nothing other than you play him a lot) and he's still my most played champ. And if you read my post, it's not about Veigar being weak, it's about his solo laning being ridiculously weak. Winrates are by no means indicative of champion strength. Azir was sitting as something like a 48% win-rate while being a near perma-ban because of how strong he was. Kassadin in S3 was much the same, low-ish win rate because he was a hard champ to play and many people couldn't, but almost literally cancer at the highest elos and a perma-ban for the majority of a season. Veigar is kind of the opposite, in that he's not terribly difficult to play, and his E is ridiculously strong. So strong in fact, that despite being a poor matchup into almost every champ in the game (where the absolute best you can hope to do in a 1v1 situation is farm until the enemy makes a mistake) his E will carry teamfights in the mid-late game. Veigar's actually got a 50%+ winrate this patch (6.23) but it is largely in part due to longer average game times and somewhat because of the quick level 3 junglers are able to get. After 2 camps, a level 3 jungler needs only to wait for Veigar to be level 2 to force sums in mid and quite often get the kill on the unsuspecting laner.

What I am saying, if you pay attention as you read the post, is that because his E is so strong his laning is forced to be absolutely terrible. Furthermore, he doesn't feel like a tiny master of evil when his evil plan is "let me sit back and try to survive this". To remedy this, his E needs to be weaker and power needs to be shifted to his Q, allowing him to do reliable damage (and THAT is the key word, Veigar's damage is strong, but extremely unreliable) while not feeling like absolute BS as he did before when you could E-W-Q-R and they 100% die, no exceptions.


Additionally, you very much can compare champion abilities directly, you just need to make sure you take into account the rest of their kits. Veigar's Q used to be targeted, just like Annie. They BOTH have an AoE stun, they BOTH do a ton of burst. It's a comparison of mandarin oranges to tangerines. Also, I don't know what lissandra you've been playing, but her laning is far stronger than Veigar's. In the worst of matchups, her Q is low enough cooldown that she can clear wave and roam or B. Her W and E both keep her safe from being engaged on (as does her R when she gets it) and can also be used to waveclear. Oh, and once she's 6+ and has 1-2 items, she can RELIABLY destroy enemy squishies that haven't been ridiculously feed. She might not have the best synergy with meta champs at the moment, but her laning is far better than Veigar's. Veigar is able to do well in lane ONLY if his opponent is retarded (doesn't dodge W or E, doesn't stand behind minions when harassing, allowing Veigar to get Q's off) or if his jungler helps out. In a 2v1 or 2v2 Veigar's E is ridiculous, and they'll burn sums or outright win most of the time. In a 1v1, which he NEEDS to be able to perform in to fit his champion theme, Veigar is better than maybe Soraka and Janna... unless they go AD.

Aizeroth1 votes

"In a 1v1, which he NEEDS to be able to perform in to fit his champion theme, Veigar is better than maybe Soraka and Janna... unless they go AD."

That is YOUR away of viewing what theme fits a tiny master of evil and NOT everyone's. If you ask me, being able to destroy and cripple the entire enemy team in teamfights and late game is far more evil and fitting for Veigar than just simply being good at 1v1 and laning phase which is basically what assassins are. So stop complaining about the laning phase , the only way for it to get better is to take away from Veigar's teamfight potential, which would ruin Veigars theme for a lot of players including me. Also the only way AD soraka and janna in 1v1 is better than Veigar is if you are so bad that you can't even land 1 skill shot. When you say things like that I question what is your ranking...

Arctic Wolf1 votes

Up until his rework at the end of S5, Veigar brought both excellent teamfight potential and a decent ability to lane. Some champions (Cassiopeia, Malzahar) destroyed him regardless. Against most he could do okay. He'd be able to choose between poking them and farming AP, and his E-W-Q combo was ALWAYS a threat. Against most melee champions (except maybe Fizz) he was even a solid counter pick. LeBlanc retains her ability to be a lane bully, albeit with a bit of a delay. Her instant burst was toned down in favor of more (though delayed) burst. Her playstyle remains the same, with the only MAJOR differences being the RR clone and not being able to instantly W-Q-R-E someone to death in under a second. You now need to wait a full 1.5 seconds.

Veigar, on the other hand, would STILL have a crazy strong teamfight with my proposed changes. If you can land Lux's E, you can land that same version of Veigar's to at least trap them inside (as is more common now). Additionally, Veigar wouldn't have to play bitch in lane. He'd still have bad matchups, ya, but he'd be able to actually stand a chance in a 1v1 by outplaying his opponent, vs having his opponent fk up and walk into a stun which they have adequate warning for.

That is YOUR away of viewing what theme fits a tiny master of evil and NOT everyone's. If you ask me, being able to destroy and cripple the entire enemy team in teamfights and late game is far more evil and fitting for Veigar than just simply being good at 1v1 and laning phase which is basically what assassins are.

If I asked you (which I didn't) I would respond by saying you are wrong. Veigar ALWAYS retained the ridiculous threat of late game terror, still does. In fact, I never said he was weak as a whole, just that his laning phase was trash and basically the weakest in the game. It's unquestionably far more evil to maintain both a threat in the lane AND in the late-game. Before his rework, playing against Veigar was calculating how to play around his cooldowns. You see him Q farm, go in and harass him. He might get an E-W off, but no big damage, and next time he Q's a minion you can chunk him down more. It was being stuck between a rock and a hard place: you didn't want him to scale infinitely, but you had to be cautious about going in because you might get chunked and you don't wanna give him a free lane either. Now, you still gotta beware the late game, but early you laugh at Veigar. Zoning him is ridiculously easy, dodging/blocking his skills takes little to no skill yourself. You need only create a freeze and you win lane because he can't get close enough to keep up in farm.

So stop complaining about the laning phase , the only way for it to get better is to take away from Veigar's teamfight potential, which would ruin Veigars theme for a lot of players including me.

If Veigar is to have his laning phase restored (AKA what I'm asking for in more reliable damage) his teamfight will be just as good. He wouldn't be stopping dashes anymore, but he never used to be able to and that he can is even more broken than his old E, just more difficult to land and useless in a 1v1. But he'd still have an AoE stun to trap and zone the enemy, and more consistent damage would easily make up for his weaker E. Veigar's theme would be in no way ruined, in fact he would be (somewhat) returned to his former glory (RIP DFG)

Also the only way AD soraka and janna in 1v1 is better than Veigar is if you are so bad that you can't even land 1 skill shot.

Have you ever played against these guys as Veigar? Janna maxes E, even if you land your Q her shield absorbs the damage and she just keeps wailing on you, with her W to keep you there longer and make her Q easier to land.

Soraka has a silence field that is, OH MY GOD, longer range than all of Veigar's spells. You're not gonna land skill-shots because you're not going to be able to cast them (Her silence field is instant cast, like Veigar's old E, there is almost no avoiding it). Furthermore, because you have to walk off it both to be able to use abilities and not get snared, her Q becomes much more easy to land, with it's wide AoE. She'll heal herself up with that from time to time (she's not gonna land them all, but will land enough) and you're just gonna be frustrated with how impossible laning is.

Yes, you'll be better late game, especially since Janna/Soraka are terrible picks for a solo lane regardless of AD or AP. But that they can bully Veigar out should not happen. That his only "evil" comes from not feeding the enemy so you're somewhat even 25 minutes in, that's not a tiny MASTER of Evil. He's not even an evil journeyman, more like an evil apprentice to his former self.

Aizeroth1 votes

I'm not saying your version of Veigar will ruin his theme or his late game. I'm saying that your version of veigar is not balanced and that is why Riot will never make it a reality. That is why i said that the only way to make him good in the early game (AND balanced) is to take from his late game.Also the old Veigar was not balanced and is never coming back so stop comparing him to the new one. Besides you, no other veigar player i know complains about his laning phase. It just seems like that you want an OP Veigar and nothing less. I suggest you just stop the debate but if you really want to keep going go create a different thread. I won't be responding here anymore.

Arctic Wolf1 votes

I'm not saying your version of Veigar will ruin his theme or his late game

Except you did say exactly that, recall this: "So stop complaining about the laning phase , the only way for it to get better is to take away from Veigar's teamfight potential, which would ruin Veigars theme for a lot of players including me."?

That is why i said that the only way to make him good in the early game (AND balanced) is to take from his late game.

Yes, that's true. I don't deny it, but taking away from his late game (i.e. making his E weaker by not stoping dashes, which it never used to, and by changing it to a skill-shot so that the farther away one is the more time there is to react) won't be such a nerf to his late-game that he is unplayable, and it would allow his laning to go more smoothly so that reaching late-game is a bit easier.

Also the old Veigar was not balanced and is never coming back so stop comparing him to the new one.

The old Veigar's E was not balanced. The new Veigar's E is STILL not balanced. More difficult to land + even more powerful when landed ≠ balance. It's a fair comparison when asking for the problem spell to be toned down so he can lane more effectively

Besides you, no other veigar player i know complains about his laning phase. It just seems like that you want an OP Veigar and nothing less

Maybe they're not as vocal, maybe you don't know many, but all of the Veigar mains I know (depending on if you include myself or not there's 8-9 of us) detest his laning phase. Also, if I really wanted an OP veigar and nothing less, I'd be asking for the rework to be reverted and DFG to be put back. I don't play much ranked, mostly enough just to get and maintain season rewards, but over S3 and S4 I had nearly an 80% winrate on Veigar. As much as I'd love to have that Veigar back, there's just no way Riot will ever return him to that state. All I ask now is for a laning phase that doesn't feel like complete shit. I want to be able to PvP reliably, and not P avoid P and farm minions for 20 minutes.

Shadowsliver1 votes

Does the include ADC kog'maw? It's nice his AP gameplay is strong as ever but his ADC gameplay still needs fixing and the assassin changes did not help him at all.

TheNoghri2 votes

Are you looking at tanks at all right now? With assassins being strong and adcs being weak, the last option of the rock/paper/scissors match is pretty strong.

RiotMeddler6 votes

CoC is pretty out of line. We're hitting that in 6.24 which should pull a number of tanks down significantly, given they've usually been the standout users of it. Will look at individual champs after that if needed.

Rivuo2 votes

{quoted}

CoC is pretty out of line. We're hitting that in 6.24 which should pull a number of tanks down significantly, given they've usually been the standout users of it. Will look at individual champs after that if needed.

imo you are correct. CoC is pretty excessive and it is a big reason why adcs are suffering.

Overall though, I do think Lucian will need to be buffed. You can literally face tank his ult if you have a cloth armor.

Abyssphere1 votes

There's no way they buff his ult damage. Before they nerfed it last time it was 100-0ing squishies by itself and the ult was never supposed to do that.

Rivuo1 votes

{quoted}

There's no way they buff his ult damage. Before they nerfed it last time it was 100-0ing squishies by itself and the ult was never supposed to do that.

... He literally is made for champion.. 500 range

Abyssphere1 votes

Speak English next time.

MoonBlade921 votes

{quoted}

CoC is pretty out of line. We're hitting that in 6.24 which should pull a number of tanks down significantly, given they've usually been the standout users of it. Will look at individual champs after that if needed.

Why not just give bac the boring but effective jungle mastery and remove the mastery that was LITERALLY one of the reasons you gutted Tahm Kench into bottom tier (AKA extremely high shields on HP stackers with no comittment other than stacking more HP up)? The mastery was bound to be a faliure from the get go (too strong on tanks, not only bad on most other champs, but also completely unable to be used if you don't play something with hard CC [making it the only mastery that can't be played in some fashion or the other]).

Okkìo1 votes

{quoted}

CoC is pretty out of line. We're hitting that in 6.24 which should pull a number of tanks down significantly, given they've usually been the standout users of it. Will look at individual champs after that if needed.

If you buff fervor, champs like yasuo might become out of line.

LankPants2 votes

ADC have not ever, are not and probably will not ever be weak. They are the class that defines the rest of the game. If they were weak they wouldn't be picked 100% of the time.

Toeffin3 votes

{quoted}

Are you looking at tanks at all right now? With assassins being strong and

adcs being weak, the last option of the rock/paper/scissors match is pretty strong.

Assassins strong? Did you even bother play them befor the whole update? (aka reworks). The updated assassins got their abilities extend their burst window, nerf to all assassins overall - expect rengar.

Go season 4 or 3 and watch fizz/kha/zed/leb/kass or other assassin to see and learn, What is it for realstrong assassin compare what we got now on live.

Get gud son.

Big Lincoln1 votes

a number of assassins have come out stronger and more versatile

LeBlanc, Katarina, K6 and Rengar and Shaco all hold decent stats. The only assassin that's continued to fall is Fizz

nikos00341 votes

Or Rengar with his no detection on S3 and early S4

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Assassin, strong ??? funny

Keanu Reevez2 votes

{quoted} Fervor being weak in particular. Current plan as a result is to buff Fervor in 6.24, possibly with some other systemic changes, and then assess underperforming marksmen like Lucian in 7.1 again.

Who do you think of when you say underperforming other than Lucian?

Just curious if you think on LCS level or on SoloQ level?

Some of the systemic changes what do you think of there is like in items, masteries? or something 3rd?

Love your work Best regards from Denmark

Partholonian1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Call Me Prophet,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tPvfjAqL,comment-id=00030006,timestamp=2016-11-29T11:59:04.934+0000)

Fervor being weak in particular. Current plan as a result is to buff Fervor in 6.24, possibly with some other systemic changes, and then assess underperforming marksmen like Lucian in 7.1 again.

Who do you think of when you say underperforming other than Lucian?

Well, I'm not Meddler, but when I think of underperforming marksmen I think of Kalista, Quinn and Varus (assuming they're not abandoning the latter two completely as marksmen and allowing their off-roles to redefine them).

Those are champions that I would feel apprehensive about picking as bot, partly because I would be at a real disadvantage and partly because I would expect my team to be hostile to the pick based on their perception of the choice.

Keanu Reevez1 votes

Thanks for the answer and yeah that is what i thought as well, but just curious if they had something amazing in mind :) but thanks for the answer :)

Adalvar1 votes

What about ADC's like Ezreal? On one hand they are extremely popular and very powerful, on the other hand both Lucian and Ezreal have a almost useless spell in their W's. While Lucian can atleast use his W to proc his passive, since the changes to Fervor Ezreal can't do the same with his W, where he could hit multiple champions to quickly stack Fervor and steamroll from there.

Have you considered remaking his W into a spell that actually impacts his kit and maybe then re-distribute the rest of the power on his Kit as seen fit?

All Skillzz1 votes

{quoted}

What about ADC's like Ezreal? On one hand they are extremely popular and very powerful, on the other hand both Lucian and Ezreal have a almost useless spell in their W's. While Lucian can atleast use his W to proc his passive, since the changes to Fervor Ezreal can't do the same with his W, where he could hit multiple champions to quickly stack Fervor and steamroll from there.

Have you considered remaking his W into a spell that actually impacts his kit and maybe then re-distribute the rest of the power on his Kit as seen fit?

no dont touch his damn W its core for ap build. if anything make it do damage to minions. also you can E into your W to get an atk speed steriod ontop of your passive. mant ezreal mains know this an use it to take tower faster or just W before you E engage on someone you can beat or W behind you when you E to kite.

Božský Skulla2 votes

Buff Draven. I want to see him in LCS!

Was it Worth1 votes

THIS! Are there any Draven changes coming up??

#BringBackTheBleeds

Teémò1 votes

What would you like him to have? it doesn't take to much skill to last hit a minion compared to say lulu. He needs to have a trade off/ powerspike between early mid and late game. And last season his early game removed most adc's between both poke and engage even if he was behind.

Eedat4 votes

But that's the thing. Lucian doesn't have a strong early mid or late anymore. The only thing that kept him relative was his armor pen build and he was still pretty garbage even with that. Now that that's even nerfed he's just flat out bad. He's not even a lane bully anymore and gets shit on by actual bullies like Cait

Teémò1 votes

Champions come and champions go. He should lose to a caitlyn as what he provides is purely damage in a shorter range. As long as she plays safely she shouldn't suffer. The way to counter a caitlyn's range was always building a statik shiv so they couldn't harass you without taking minnion agro. This actually makes a player have to think what do I want to build for the situation rather than what do I build every game. Separating the Good and bad adc's mindsets. If you love your champ you'll find a way to bring it back. For me I've been doing some Kalista jungle. It may sound crazy and dumb, but if its a champion you enjoy then You need to play around your weakness's and strength to discover something you may of lacked playing that champion. He was originally made for mid lane, I'd suggest giving it a shot.

TheNoghri1 votes

Lucian also has a bit of the Lee Sin problem. They made a champ with such a fun and rewarding kit that if he's ever "balanced" he will have a 40% pick rate. People will start banning him. Not because he's stronger than any other champ, but you just get so sick of playing against the same thing every game. Either we need more adcs in the design space that feel as rewarding to play, or Lucian always need to be just a little bit underpowered.

Leo10241 votes

Maybe a buff to his W because everything else is fine about him, I main support and I can tell that Lucian is one of the weaker adcs this meta

xBushx1 votes

Slow/stun break on E and reset on kill or assist. (Old E) Balanced.

After the yomumus nerf he dropped hard.

TheNoghri2 votes

I see no way giving an adc a free QSS at level 1 could go wrong. I see no way giving the most mobile adc in the game more mobility could go wrong.

xBushx1 votes

Hey it is how he used to be...broken AF on release. We still have uncounterable kits like Ekko and you complain about this lul

DunkinNoobs1 votes

You actually understated it. Lucian is under 45% now. http://lolalytics.com/champion/Lucian/

4K31 votes

Lol, u see http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/1/54/58/22/20150411/ob_85e69c_credit-p0kem0na-deviantart.png

item 3102 item 3364 item 3341 item 3140 item 3056 item 3145 item 3814 item 3147 item 2055

Redemption is good for teemo, or smite top (realy sad face)

but ap hard suck.

Ah Ah Ah1 votes

I think he did get hurt this patch but I don't think he is unplayable. If you go into Essence Reaver then Rapidfire/PD (pretty much how lucian was built before Cleaver Youmoos build came to play) his damage output is really good, especially into the late game (where he struggles imo). This build leaning towards crit give him a really nice boost with fervor giving ad now. It not stacking with abilities is a downside but it is still very effective. Lucian Lucian Lucian

Calabok1 votes

that shrimp does not need buffs. his late game is nutzo

Requiemsfire1 votes

Not entirely sure why this thread received so many downvotes, Lucian might be decent as a pick but he's really average amongst even his mains despite whatever skill cap he might have, he has no real strengths outside of his passive and his mobility especially since his Q range was gutted which makes it much harder to trade in lane. It's hard for him to keep up with the likes of Jinx and Vayne since if he doesn't shut them down early enough he simply gets out scaled.

SwordOfWar1 votes

Because the boards are full of cry babies who think ALL ADCs should be gutted

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