MMR transition between 3v3 and 5v5

Papa Bear··1 votes·472 views

So last hitting, dodging skillshots, functionally every skill in league stops works the same way going from one map to another.

My issue is that there shouldn't be such a clear cut change in MMR between maps, a challenger player coming to twisted treeline isn't going to lose to me simply because the map looks different, faker isn't going to stop dodging every single skillshot I make simply because he queued up for a different map. So why are high MMR players being matched vs low MMR players when if we're going to be realistic there should be bleed over from one map to another even if it is only one way given that it would be an easy cheese to get high elo in 3's and then transition to the more competitive 5's with a high MMR, instead do it 1 way so if you are high MMR in 5's you start out higher in 3's and avoid being placed vs us Bronze/Silvers constantly as platinum to diamonds. I have consistently been placed vs platinum and diamond players in twisted treeline and keep being told 'oh they are just placing' no... they've placed already... in platinum or higher usually, or that somehow my MMR must be real high... it's not, it's right in the middle of Silver at the best of times, if I check their MMR it is roughly 1k more than mine in around 50% of the games I play. Elo hell isn't a thing in 5's cause there are enough players to pad it out, there is in twisted treeline simply because riot refuses to believe that the skills players have mastered translate perfectly well from one map design to another map design. Maybe it's just me, but in a game (note the purpose of a game is to have fun) based around multiplayer interactions it is important to put like players together, whether that be similarly skilled enemies against you, or similarly skilled allies, the intent should always be to avoid having situations where there is a clear individual who is holding his or her team back on either side of the battle; thoughts? I would love to have a discussion that involves solutions to this problem, not name throwing, calling people bad, or generally being a jerk. Thanks ~ Papa Bear

2 Comments

Minarde1 votes
  1. Any MMR bleed over should be two-way. If SR skills are just as applicable in TT, then TT skills should be just as applicable in SR. It's not really "cheese" because they'll still drop if their skills aren't good enough, and one-way bleed is unfair to TT players.
  2. Diamond and Plat in TT or SR? For which map are they "already placed"? And how are you checking their MMR? If you mean op.gg, that calculation is flawed and only based on SR performance, which isn't (currently) relevant to other maps/modes.
  3. Elo Hell is certainly a thing in 5s, depending on how "Elo Hell" is defined. As a "you're better than where you are, but not good enough to get out in a reasonable timeframe" situation, it's an inextricably part of every game mode.
Papa Bear2 votes

I can't say I truly disagree with you on TT should be treated better by riot, right now it's a map that they made and forgot, and giving it more ranked attention would make it more populated for sure, your first idea would definitely do just that.

For your second point, if they place in 5v5 they should already have an estimate for TT, functionally if they place in diamond they shouldn't come over to TT with a 1,200 flat MMR as if they had never played ranked before, have it be similar to the soft reset of MMR between seasons where if you were diamond and you fail every placement game you're stuck in low gold or plat. I do very much disagree with you on the last bit of your 2nd point, nearly every single skill in SR transfers over to TT perfectly, the only ones that don't are dragon/baron control which still work just fine for controlling the vilemaw, they changed the name and the placement, they didn't change the skills associated.

As far as elo hell, I would say that your skill will out given enough games, statistically you will rise or lower to your skill level until you are winning roughly 50% of your games, in TT that is not necessarily the case since you have so many 'blank' platinum+ being placed vs bronze and silvers keeping us from ever progressing because we are constantly playing against much higher skilled players no because of elo hell as a concept but because riot has yet to implement a valid ranked form for TT. The symptom is elo hell, the true elo hell of SR is different and just people whining saying they can't rise through the ranks, most likely because either they don't have the mechanical skill, the game knowledge, the internet speed, the computer, or more often than not... the time to invest.

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