Grievous Wounds is a wasted game mechanic.

spangledashia·Oct 22, 2015·37 votes·13,998 views

Now before people start telling me how useful is, I should elaborate. Yes this is a very good item, and yes the passive is very useful. So why is this STILL the only item to date that has this passive? As someone who does not tend to play a lot of mages it upsets me that when I go against a champion will excellent healing. I feel like there is a SEVERE lack out counter play to heal heavy champions. The only way to apply this debuff without being a mage is to take . Anyone even remotely familiar with how top lane or even ADC works knows the problems this. Are there any new items in the workshop that will help resolve this horrible unbalance? I mean how obvious can this be riot???? How many champions have a way to heal WITHOUT items giving spell vamp/life steal, and we still only have one (mages only)counter item?

131 Comments

Pika310Oct 22, 201529 votes

What you fail to realize is that Rito is slowly removing Grievous Wounds from the game. Every few patches, they remove it from yet another champion and they've already removed every other way of applying it save Morellonomicon and Ignite. As things currently stand, the only 2 champs left in the game that can apply it are Kat and Varus. Whereas in the past we used to have Fizz, Trist, MF and et cetera. By this time next year, the mechanic may not even exist anymore.

RozzetaOct 22, 201512 votes

Who likes Varus anyway.

NazZomLordOct 22, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Who likes Varus anyway.

BudupopsOct 22, 20151 votes

they better not nerf my main (kat)

maikokkOct 23, 20151 votes

i hope they remove her grievous wounds so they can actually put some relevant power in her kit. why the fuck does an assassin need grievous wounds? you are supposed to instagib them before they think about healing

BudupopsOct 23, 20151 votes

its to shut down tanks

maikokkOct 23, 20151 votes

news flash: if you are trying to battle tanks you are playing kat wrong

BudupopsOct 24, 20151 votes

tbh i just oneshot the entire team then move on to finish the tanks with the reset

maikokkOct 24, 20151 votes

which is how you are supposed to do it. so why does kat need greivous wounds?! wouldnt you rather her ult duration was decreased so she could burst better?

shadowman09876Mar 13, 20171 votes

Kat already has a slow with her ult, do you really need grievous wounds? It's not she has magic burn unless you build item 3151 but why?

NarzghalOct 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Who likes Varus anyway.

raises hand I know that Varus is kinda weak in the current meta when compared to vayne, jinx, and others, but he was my first ADC and so far my favorite to play. A little love would be nice to make him able to compete again. But he's still beast on ARAM :D and every now and then I feel like having fun and taking him AP mid, and watching people get destroyed by my 45% max health dmg when an ability hits with a full AP build. item 1311 item 3100 item 3285 item 3115 item 3089 item 3157

OverpoweredSoapOct 22, 20158 votes

{quoted}

What you fail to realize is that Rito is slowly removing Grievous Wounds from the game. Every few patches, they remove it from yet another champion and they've already removed every other way of applying it save Morellonomicon and Ignite. As things currently stand, the only 2 champs left in the game that can apply it are Kat and Varus. Whereas in the past we used to have Fizz, Trist, MF and et cetera. By this time next year, the mechanic may not even exist anymore.

Meddler said that they're not removing it from the game and are even looking to add an AD item that applies GW in the preseason.

PDE5 InhibitorsOct 22, 201514 votes

He can say whatever he wants to say....doing it and saying it are two different things.

*removes most grievous wound thingies*

"Guys, we aren't removing grievous wounds!"

AbyssphereOct 22, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhibitors,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tBvJEsfH,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2015-10-22T15:51:21.793+0000)

He can say whatever he wants to say....doing it and saying it are two different things.

*removes most grievous wound thingies*

"Guys, we aren't removing grievous wounds!"

Yeah, he's not going to say "We're making an AD grievous wounds item" and then just delete the mechanic. Riot have given plenty of detail on their GW thoughts recently, and they explained why it's become less common but is not reaching full on deletion.

Pika310Oct 22, 201515 votes

Except that's EXACTLY what Fearless did:

"We won't abandon Sona and will take appropriate actions if necessary."

Proceeds to make additional nerfs and abandon her for the entirety of season 5

"We're looking to make her E and W effects more rewarding."

nerfs her base MS

Rito is just a bunch of liars and hypocrites. NEVER take their word at face value. Or at any value for that matter, because the exact opposite of what they say is near guaranteed to be the truth and what'll actually occur.

AbyssphereOct 22, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Except that's EXACTLY what Fearless did:

"We won't abandon Sona and will take appropriate actions if necessary."

Proceeds to make additional nerfs and abandon her for the entirety of season 5

"We're looking to make her E and W effects more rewarding."

nerfs her base MS

Rito is just a bunch of liars and hypocrites. NEVER take their word at face value. Or at any value for that matter, because the exact opposite of what they say is near guaranteed to be the truth and what'll actually occur.

There's a difference between "We'll keep an eye on Sona... and maybe do something about it" and "We are testing a new AD Grievous Wounds item as we speak".

Pika310Oct 22, 20158 votes

The thing about blind loyalty is, even if it's proven that loyalty is misplaced, they'll continue to stay loyal to their master completely without reason and ignoring all forms of logic.

AbyssphereOct 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The thing about blind loyalty is, even if it's proven that loyalty is misplaced, they'll continue to stay loyal to their master completely without reason and ignoring all forms of logic.

Being cynical might be fun for you but everyone who isn't blinded by past grievances can see what distinguishes "It's possible we'll do something" (Sona) and "We are in the process of doing something right now" (new GW item).

And you can mock me for blind loyalty all you want but I'm pretty sure that just means I'm enjoying the game. You, on the other hand, spend all your time bitching about the game while continuing to spend money on it. Sounds financially imprudent, somehow.

Pika310Oct 22, 20155 votes

I haven't spent a dime on League since patch 4.13 went Live, as I've already stated a few times before. Stop making assumptions.

It's difficult to enjoy a game that Rito is blatantly going out of their way trying to make as unenjoyable as possible. Between the lack of moderation both in-game and here on the boards; blatantly biased "balance" changes; verbal abuse and condescension directly from Rito employees themselves; et cetera; ad infinitum. I find myself only logging on when friends tell me to.

AbyssphereOct 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I haven't spent a dime on League since patch 4.13 went Live, as I've already stated a few times before. Stop making assumptions.

It's difficult to enjoy a game that Rito is blatantly going out of their way trying to make as unenjoyable as possible. Between the lack of moderation both in-game and here on the boards; blatantly biased "balance" changes; verbal abuse and condescension directly from Rito employees themselves; et cetera; ad infinitum. I find myself only logging on when friends tell me to.

You have a 2015 Worlds icon. You still spend money on the game, or someone is spending it on you. Even if you bought it with spare RP since Sonagate, it shows you are interested in esports. I'm not buying the "I know what's really up" thing, sorry.

Pika310Oct 23, 20155 votes

I was gifted this icon by my irl friend YoungVayu, he gifted it to at least 2 people and got it for himself. I use it because I'm not an ungrateful bastard. My qualms are with Rito, not with my friends.

You can go ahead and ask him directly if that's true, or you can stay here and continue making false uneducated accusations.

Red RyuOct 23, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I haven't spent a dime on League since patch 4.13 went Live, as I've already stated a few times before. Stop making assumptions.

It's difficult to enjoy a game that Rito is blatantly going out of their way trying to make as unenjoyable as possible. Between the lack of moderation both in-game and here on the boards; blatantly biased "balance" changes; verbal abuse and condescension directly from Rito employees themselves; et cetera; ad infinitum. I find myself only logging on when friends tell me to.

Use the report button.

Pika310Oct 23, 20154 votes

I do. The mods intentionally ignore it. Hence why I say moderation does not exist.

RetroRage96Oct 23, 20151 votes

I don't think it's that extreme.

You don't always have to be so cynical.

Pika310Oct 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I don't think it's that extreme.

You don't always have to be so cynical.

I wouldn't have said it if I didn't mean it. I may be cynical, I can't deny that, but it's Rito that made me this way.

Pika310Oct 23, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tBvJEsfH,comment-id=00010002000000000000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-23T03:37:53.734+0000)

You are responsible for it.

You control how you act.

Am I also responsible for Rito refusing to listen to the players? Not just myself, but countless individuals on pretty much every issue?

Do I control how Rito acts as well? Did I control them for creating Sated Devourer? The Lucian rework?

Or are you just scapegoating me?

Miku Hime samaOct 23, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tBvJEsfH,comment-id=00010002000000000000000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-23T03:37:53.734+0000)

You are responsible for it.

You control how you act.

And you are responsible for intentionally instigating an argument on an otherwise peaceful thread. The only one at fault here is you for provoking people into fights. Your toxicity and that of similar trolls like yourself is one of the reasons he's angry. Because you keep poking someone searching to get a response out of them.

In case you aren't aware, that's an actual crime in the states. Interesting that I know more about your country's laws than you do.

Red RyuOct 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I do. The mods intentionally ignore it. Hence why I say moderation does not exist.

Or maybe because it isn't worth it to infract it.

AWildAPKalistaOct 23, 20154 votes

So it's better to not nip it in the bud and let it continue to grow and flourish? Habitually repeated behavior of a single individual should be ignored?

I'm glad you aren't writing US law, else we wouldn't have the repeat-offender rule or the "3-strikes" law.

Pika310Oct 22, 20153 votes

Essentially Fearless in a nutshell. His words and his actions have never been in sync even a single time. Then you have Jag as well... The "balance" and "rework" employees are NOT to be trusted. EVER.

spangledashiaOct 22, 20153 votes

Sooooo in other words we should start expecting Nidalee Swain and Vladimir every single game? This has been a problem thats long coming. Either healing as a whole needs to be changed in this game, or more ways to reduce it are needed.

Chuck CharlesOct 22, 201518 votes

{quoted}

Sooooo in other words we should start expecting and every single game? This has been a problem thats long coming. Either healing as a whole needs to be changed in this game, or more ways to reduce it are needed.

the problem with grievous wounds being super accessible rather than situational (even nomicon is situational as you have to get them low in the first place, and it only lasts X amount of time) is that these champions that are "heal based"...rely on their heal. if it was as easy as buy "x item" then that champion would effectively be useless. Imagine if grievous wounds were easy to apply? What would vlad do? his one thing he does well, he now no longer does. Well then. That sucks.

These champs can feel oppressive because of their sustain, but all 3 of the ones you mentioned are indeed vulnerable to being blown up. sure they can zhonyas, etc. but ultimately they do have counterplay.

We need executioners calling back, but it needs to work similar to nomicon as a temporary debuff and only below a certain percentage. Eitherwise champs like vlad, swain, and soraka will just be effectively worthless.

RiotRiot ReinboomOct 22, 201519 votes

This is a healthy way of looking at it.

Executioner's Calling in particular is an interesting case. Its biggest failing is that its stat profile was very unique, with the only item on SR sharing its stat space being Infinity Edge. Within that duality of purpose, because champions that utilize that stat profile will never give up Infinity Edge, it had no direct comparison. Nothing you would switch for it. The results of this duality of purpose is you had to make a stats optimization case on top of your "I need to deal with this situation case". For most people, what you were trading away just wasn't worth it then.

Grievous wounds on an item is fine (more fine than on champions I would argue, excepting assassins), but if it's ever an expectancy then what will actually happen with the lacks of Vladimir, Mundo, and similar is over time their healing amounts will just creep up and creep up until they get their identities back.

AgidyneOct 22, 20153 votes

Why are we comparing Infinity Edge to Executioner's Calling?

Sure they offered the same stats but the AD value each item offered wasn't even close.

I mean, IE gave like 70 AD whereas EC gave 25. Of course people will always buy IE over EC when it gives them so much more damage and burst.

If EC had it's cost gone up but gave those same 70 AD aswell, then maybe we could compare both, especially since IE wasn't even an actual core rush item before the Bloodthirster nerfs. But as it is, of course no one would ever buy EC over the IE.

Infact, they could actually switch the items passives and I doubt anyone would ever buy EC over IE.

RiotRiot ReinboomOct 22, 201518 votes

That's the point.

To reiterate: "it had no direct comparison"

AgidyneOct 22, 20155 votes

Yeah, but in your post you said.

[{quoted}](name=Riot Reinboom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tBvJEsfH,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2015-10-22T17:38:07.882+0000) Its biggest failing is that its stat profile was very unique, with the only item on SR sharing its stat space being Infinity Edge.

Which I don't believe is true.

The biggest failing point is not that the stats were too unique but too weak to ever be worth an actual itemslot.

If there was an upgrade for EC which gave the item actual visible powerful stats for an obviously increased but fair price, I doubt the item would ever be left to rot every game.

Solidair3Oct 22, 201511 votes

What reinboom meant was that both items had both AD and Crit, which is a very rare combo ( item 3142 being another, but serving a different purpose) BUT Infinity Edge is always a must-buy, thus you never have any reason to get EC. And even when you did it was a trap, because it didn't provide the stats to take up an item slot on its own.

Grievous Wounds is complicated because as long as it is as accessible as ON EVERY AUTO ATTACK, as it was for EC, it cannot then also be attached to a powerful item, because for champions that rely on strong healing to be effective, it becomes too easy to make them utterly useless just because you bought EC.

The reason that EC didn't have a superior upgrade is because of how it interacts with heal-reliant champs, so it had to be kept weak.

CSDragonOct 23, 20152 votes

So MAKE one.

There needs to be more AD+Crit items in the game anyway. Having the major sources of crit be locked to attack speed forces you to go either full glass cannon getting tons and tons of multipliers, or full-bruiser getting just raw AD. There needs to be more options for people who just want to be AD+Crit or AD+Attack Speed.

HellioningOct 22, 20155 votes

Just remove GW and rebalance healing to compensate.

TheorcheroOct 22, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Just remove GW and rebalance healing to compensate.

Vladimir is now fully erect.

HellioningOct 22, 20156 votes

Which is why I mentioned 'rebalance healing.'

Chuck CharlesOct 22, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Reinboom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tBvJEsfH,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2015-10-22T17:38:07.882+0000)

This is a healthy way of looking at it.

Executioner's Calling in particular is an interesting case. Its biggest failing is that its stat profile was very unique, with the only item on SR sharing its stat space being Infinity Edge. Within that duality of purpose, because champions that utilize that stat profile will never give up Infinity Edge, it had no direct comparison. Nothing you would switch for it. The results of this duality of purpose is you had to make a stats optimization case on top of your "I need to deal with this situation case". For most people, what you were trading away just wasn't worth it then.

Grievous wounds on an item is fine (more fine than on champions I would argue, excepting assassins), but if it's ever an expectancy then what will actually happen with the lacks of Vladimir, Mundo, and similar is over time their healing amounts will just creep up and creep up until they get their identities back.

I agree completely with Executioner's Calling. As the stats it gave were not worth the passive. I feel the grievous wounds can be shifted to a new item altogether or shifted to a weaker item to give it power and make it a better pick. Maybe towards a lifesteal oriented item to improve your sustain while simultaneously hindering enemy sustain in certain situations? I'm not sure. just spitballing here. but thank you for the reply and in put. I appreciate the explanation and insight

TraptintimeOct 22, 20151 votes

I believe that Grievous wounds has a place on items in summoners rift but I also see its danger being on something like and assassin or an ADC. This is something I have been actually thinking about for a while as there are several champions that become nightmares with out taking ignite. The problem with Executioner's calling is it didn't supply the stats to really warrant an ADC picking it up. On the flip side could you imagine the nightmare it would be to have a high stat item with grievous wounds on it that fit into an ADC profile. The could supply large amounts of damage from the back row to several targets while prevent any recover from that damage. The point of creating team, both in lol and outside of, its to have various players filing different roles and supplementing other members short comings. Thats why I think the best place to look to adding a new grievous wound item would be a melee damage item for tanks.

Often jungle and top lane tanks are limited in the number of damage items they can really take while fulfilling the role. And I believe this is a good thing as damage should be left to an ADC (not necessarily a ranged carry but an overall AD carry). Tanks already have several damage items that help fulfill this role and tackle strengths of the other team. The opposing team has a lot tanks pick black cleaver, your facing heavy ap well grab hex drinker, getting kited grab frozen mallet, and the other team takes top aatrox and jungle warwick well... him theres nothing to grab to stop that life gain.

TraptintimeOct 22, 20152 votes

I apologize for the long comment. Sure to briefly finish up I think there should be a damage item for melee tanks that has both health and damage stats in a similar profile to those above mentioned items that applies grievous wounds. Maybe something along the lines bami's cinder + phage = burning hammer. Burning hammer +500 hp, +40 ad, Unique passive - on hit "ignites" enemies for 2 seconds dealing 5+(lvl) magic a second and applying grievous wounds while ignited. (the two unique passive from the previous items get merged into a new singular passive) I originally said true damage on the ignite but I figure that would bring the item too close to the black cleaver's profile as an item for ignoring resistances.

An item like this on melee champs means that they have to get into range of the target to apply the debuff. So adc can still kite and life steal in team fights and it will be hard for the tank to be both a front liner for their carry and run around applying the debuff to everyone. Thus not only creating unique decisions trees when itemizing against an apposing team but also in team fights on what your role needs to be with this item.

Pika310Oct 22, 20153 votes

You say Grievous wounds is fine on assassin champs, yet it was intentionally removed from Fizz and Tristana. Hell, AP Tristana herself was removed from the game. Don't these cases directly contradict that sentiment?

Photos of GhostsOct 22, 20152 votes

Quick question. Why not having:

different values that 50% healing reduction
BIGGER indicator
Darker the higher the healing reduction value is
VALUE SHOWN ON INDICATOR AND DEBUFF
more sources of lighter Grievous Wounds
immunities to GW for example on Mundo's ult?

CrazedPorcupineOct 23, 20151 votes

What about when Executioner's Calling had it's Season 2 ACTIVE back, where it had a cooldown, but you could activate the item to inflict grievous wounds onto a target. Also, if you did that, where it had moments of counterplay, would it be possible to have then added an upgrade to the item?

RueianOct 24, 20151 votes

If i remember correctly Mundo was one of the reasons why Grevious wounds and Executioner's calling was nerfed so hard back in early League. Grievous wounds used to stack and champions like tristana could ignite you and use her Explosive shot to reduce your healing to 0.

I think the issue wasn't that grievous wounds was easy to apply, its that it was too impactful for how easy it was to apply. The approach of making it harder to apply i think was the wrong direction when instead of reducing its uptime you could have reduced its effectiveness. (not having it reduce healing by 50%)

Sinista BladeOct 26, 20151 votes

Sooo got a SUPER important question! Since you started to remove Grievious Wounds from some champs kit , like from Miss Fortunes W : Do you intend to touch the GW on Katarinas R ( pls no!) ? If you do so then atleast make sure that she is getting compensated ( or RITO! [ this is not a threat xD ] ) ^^

JustBoneBrookOct 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Reinboom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tBvJEsfH,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2015-10-22T17:38:07.882+0000)

This is a healthy way of looking at it.

Executioner's Calling in particular is an interesting case. Its biggest failing is that its stat profile was very unique, with the only item on SR sharing its stat space being Infinity Edge. Within that duality of purpose, because champions that utilize that stat profile will never give up Infinity Edge, it had no direct comparison. Nothing you would switch for it. The results of this duality of purpose is you had to make a stats optimization case on top of your "I need to deal with this situation case". For most people, what you were trading away just wasn't worth it then.

Grievous wounds on an item is fine (more fine than on champions I would argue, excepting assassins), but if it's ever an expectancy then what will actually happen with the lacks of Vladimir, Mundo, and similar is over time their healing amounts will just creep up and creep up until they get their identities back.

Sorry but the only character it really use to conter 100% of the itme is mundo Vladimir vas actually really hard to hit whit Executioner's Calling since he hurt alot whit his Q any way and her just lose 50% of the heal, and executioner calling stats where bad any way

It was super situational since the stats where bad and you really needed to take one place to get some heal reduction.

Why not make the % go like this : 0% whene full HP to 75% whene the enemie go 25% hp? (gaining slow reduction for every % you reduce to the enemie HP)

The prob whit low% hp Grievous wounds is that it only good to conter whene the enemie is low hp and ... the prob is that they heal themself so they are alwas almost full hp...