Riven is currently really out of meta

Keldeones··7 votes·3,100 views

Hey Riot, Recently I've been a bit frustrated whenever I play your game League of Legends. I am a regular summoner on the rift who loves to play with my friends and go against five other champions all on a quest to destroy the enemy nexus. I would like to address something before I get to the point: This is about a champion... a very hated champion in the community.... perhaps the most hated champion in the community. It's about Riven. Now I know you are sick and tired of hearing complaints about this champ from both the haters and the Riven mains. Unfortunately for you (Whoever is reading this) I happen to fall into the category of Riven main. So I wouldn't classify myself as a stereotypical Riven main who watches Box Box all day and then goes into a bronze ranked game and after feeding on the champion flame my team mates and be toxic. In fact, I've never been chat banned or even gotten a notification about being reported. Sometimes, I can let losing as Riven get to my head but I try my absolute hardest to keep the comments out of all chat. It is out of my best interest to not add onto the already terrible reputation for Riven mains.

So the point: I feel that Riven is extremely under powered in this meta. I know... I know... you've probably heard this before already. Just hear me out. The first Riven nerfs you made were regarding her windslash speed. Then her movespeed. Then the one I hated the most... her cooldowns. Riven is a champion that is centered around cooldown reduction. I know, as a Riven player, feel like because of that nerf I am obligated to rush 45% cdr. Another thing that I think is that I feel like you maybe nerfed Riven solely because of the complaints the community made towards her and not actually regarding how strong she was. I will admit Riven was very strong and did a lot of damage. Her AD scaling shield can be frustrating. However, in order to get the full benefit out of this champion requires tons of skill and practice towards animation canceling which I feel I am pretty good at (Canceling q's with movement commands and using e to mask other animations etc.). Her mobility was also a frustrating thing that the community complained about and the fact that her ult was up very often. However, you have to consider this: Riven is a bruiser NOT a tank. The meta for top laners right now is primarily Tank based. Riven's job is to do damage, as much as she can before she dies (because she's so squishy). A lot of tanks now provide the team with a tanky source but also do Riven's job better than her. Many champions can build tank and not put any gold into damage but still out damage Riven (Fiora, Renekton, Nasus, Darius, and Garen). Riven can bully champions like Nasus who try to farm with his Q early game but once he builds Frozen Heart or hits level 6 Riven, even if she is 7-0, can no longer kill him and Nasus can actually solo her. It is frustrating because I've put so much time and effort into this one champion who I feel like gets countered by almost everything top lane in this meta. Even if I do manage to win lane against one of these mega tanks, I do not even provide much for the team considering I am a bruiser and tanks are more beneficial to the team. So even if I win lane, in the long run their enemy top laner will be more useful.

Quickly, I would like to address the statistics. Riven, not surprisingly, has one of the lowest if not the lowest win rate out of all the top laners. Even teemo, who does not provide much CC or even tankiness for his team has a 3% higher win rate than Riven being roughly 49% while Riven's is an abysmal 46%. Other top laners like Garen and Malphite are well into the low 50% range.

It's just frustrating to me that I've put so much time into the only champion I enjoy right now but despite the hours I've put into her and all the effort I've put into making a better name for Riven mains, she feels very useless to me in this meta. And it's especially frustrating to me when I feel like you nerfed her just because the community hates her. I understand, I hate Kennen A LOT but I understand that he is not that nerf worthy. Not to mention, after nerfing Riven into the ground, people still complain about her "OP-ness". A lot of times, it may be the people who hate Riven in my games who are the most toxic.

Thank you for reading this (Whoever did) and I know it was really long but Riven is a champion I feel very passionate about. It's like that game Super Smash Bros Melee. Riven isn't what she seems like on the surface. Like Melee, a 15 year old GameCube game that is still relevant, people took Riven and pushed her limits. They found new ways to make her better and new ways to outplay the opponent. She's become the only reason I have left to play League of Legends and right now I am on the verge of leaving the game behind because of this. I really would like to continue playing with friends and just competing on the rift and feel like I was back when I first started this game. Unfortunately, that isn't the case anymore. Thank you, From just another

21 Comments

Dan4o88PancheF1 votes

can you make a video pls /?

Keldeones1 votes

What do you mean make a video? Of my opinion? Or what? If be happy to consider any ideas

Dan4o88PancheF1 votes

{quoted}

What do you mean make a video? Of my opinion? Or what? If be happy to consider any ideas

yes

PhantomGG1 votes

Assassin/bruiser Riven is out of the meta, I agree

However one reccomondation I have for you is to try 45 percent CDR TANK riven

The Core build

item 3158 item 3074 or item 3748 item 3071

+3 tanks items of your choice according to what you need

You now become a highly mobile tank who can jump onto the carries and chain cc onto them while doing decent peel for your carries.

Keldeones1 votes

I am really looking forward to trying this thanks!

Keldeones1 votes

Hey man, I tried out that build and I can honestly say I haven't had that much fun on Riven in a long time. You start out like the normal Riven and then your playstyle changes late game to be useful to the team. Thanks :D

Keldeones1 votes

Omg, This build is 100% legit. I'm doing so much better now because the tankiness is more useful to my team and it is still fun because it plays just like bruiser Riven. I am gonna miss full damage Riven though :/ Thanks again!

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

You just have to adjust your playstyle. If you're 5/0 and Nasus finishes his frozen heart...so what if you can't kill him? You can still TP bot and banish their bot lane into the void with the blink of an eye. That leads to bot tower, dragon, your bot lane rotating mid, taking mid, rotating top, taking top, etc.

You can also just do the same thing everyone else is doing, build one damage item then full tank/cdr. You become an unkillable CC machine who can dive through the team and onto the backline. With item 3748 you can still split push.

Keldeones1 votes

That's really interesting. I've tried that idea before but I think I'll look into tank riven again. Maybe titanic and black cleaver for damage and then tank.

Also one thing about what you said about adapting my play style: in that situation I totally agree but I am afraid if I tp or roam Nadia might stack or push towers and punish me hard if the tp roam doesn't work out.

Thanks for your feedback! Really appreciated

AnCa1 votes

Its a very long paragraph I think you should space out each point or section with an empty line to make it easier for others to read and it will be more enjoyable to read. That said I read the whole thing, so I will provide my 2 cents on this matter.

Since I do not play top lane much, I cannot delve on the detail of she being viable or is completely garbo right now or not. So I will approach this from a case example of Riot's stance on balancing a champion vs the meta.

I think Riven is the top lane version of lee sin.

  • As you said require skill and practice
  • low skill floor but super high skill ceiling
  • have a dedicated group that mains the champion
  • when they are strong ppl really hate them
  • have a stereotyping for the player base
  • when they are in the meta they dominate the solo Q
  • when its out of meta the fall short if your skill level with the champion is not top top notch

So I think you get my point here, Lee Sin and Riven is similar in how the player sees them and their relation to balancing in a meta. (I just checked, and they actually have similar win rate right now. But I do not want to use win rate as a supporting proof since for a champion that has a high skill variance win rate can be misleading. So I will treat this one as coincidence.)

Now, lets see how Riot treat Lee Sin. They took out a lot of reliable damage from the kit but kept the mobility to keep the haters happy and the mains not completely rioting. This probably is their stance on this matter. And it is probably a politically easier choice for balancing, since Riot probably want to avoid constantly getting complain about 1 particular champion for balancing. So I believe this is not going to change anytime soon. One comforting factor is, Riot do sometimes provide small buff/utility upgrade for champion in this boat. As historically Riot has done this for both Lee Sin and Riven. So there is hope yet!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

All in all, I conclude my point as being Riot might buff/balance Riven a little, but definitely will not be much. And it is very likely they will leave Riven in the current situation seeing how they treated Lee Sin.

Now I have said everything I thought for sure is correct. So the next few comments might just be off the mark, but bear with me on this.

As you mentioned, "Riven is currently really out of meta " right now. Since she is historically a bruser and the top lane favors tank currently. Why? I don't know, be it the team need it or they are just strong I really do not know. But the important fact is, Riven is out of meta. If a champion is not part of the meta due to not being part of the archetype that is "THE META currently", yet is still strong, don't you think this might be a problem?

As I mentioned, win rate is misleading for high skill base champion. But using it as a soft reference for balancing is good as a very rough general guideline, emphasis on very rough. And since you used it, I will try to use this as well.

If Riot should balance/buff champion base on win rate, shouldn't Riot first balance/buff champion that have the lowest win rate? Let's use champion.gg 's stat for reference since it uses plat+ data and those player probably know more about this game than the rest of the player population. At the time of writing this, Riven has a win rate of 47.9% at top lane. Of the top laners that is not troll pick, there are the likes of Olaf, Jayce, Hecarim and Rumble whom just like Riven is out of the top lane meta AND sitting at the bottom of the win rate chart. 45.25% to 42.45% to be exact. (Nunu is the least, but I cannot honestly say nunu is a known top laner historically so I left him out.) So my point in this is, even if balancing is based off of win rate, Riven probably would not be looked at first.

Thirdly, and I quote.

"A lot of tanks now provide the team with a tanky source but also do Riven's job better than her. Many champions can build tank and not put any gold into damage but still out damage Riven (Fiora, Renekton, Nasus, Darius, and Garen). "

Fiora - I agree she is out of hand, probably a nerf is coming. (Scratch that, Riot did ninja nerf Fiora in patch 6.4 for fixing a cd reset bug. Skimming some of her hidden power. But who are we kidding she is probably still going to get another nerf) Renekton - His scaling drop off unless he constantly stay ahead with levels and items by using his early game advantage. So that is his thing, he Nasus - He out damage everyone once he get his stacks, so.......why do you want to list him out? Darius and Garen - Riot was clear with them on their Juggernaut update. No hyper mobility, tanky, if they got up close they are going to do a lot of damage. Basically for being less mobile they get damage.

So where am I getting with this? Other than Fiora being an exception, the rest of those champions function as intended. They have more damage than Riven because either they are less mobile OR have poor end game scaling OR is Nasus. This is not a valid example to justify balancing Riven cause she is not in the meta.

In this case, I think comparing Riven with other top lane bruiser would be a better argument. Lets say Pantheon, who is doing insanely well right now, have pretty low skill cap and is a bruiser usually. Or like Jax who is doing around just as good/bad as Riven and is a bruiser usually. But yes I do agree, in the pool of top lane AD bruiser, Riven is lacking behind. Should Riot balance her according to them and vice versa? Probably if Riot balance team have enough man power to micro balance every single champion, which everyone hopes they do but probably is not economically viable. Should Riot balance them as a category and put bruiser top in meta and the tank top out of the meta? That is for Riot to decide.

Sincerely, someone who cannot fall asleep at 5 AM and do not know how to spent this time otherwise. [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

P.S. Rito pls rework weewick, he kit is so awkward. Not yet? Ok. [zombie-nunu-tears]

Keldeones1 votes

Lol thanks for the feedback I appreciated it and I agree pretty strongly with what you said. In the future I will refrain from using win rates unless they are the absolute lowest for the champion I am arguing. Thanks

The Whamboozler1 votes

Holy crap that is hard to read. Space it out, man!

Keldeones1 votes

Lol thanks for the advice I added the spaces

The Whamboozler1 votes

Ok... now that I can read that without my brain hurting, I shall put in my two cents.

I kind hate Riven. Not because I get stomped by her a lot... I've actually gotten pretty good at fighting her in top since she was such a spammed pick up there for a long time. I dislike her playstyle. Riven, at least in low ELO, rewards the kind of mindless yolo aggression that people like to throw around every game and if she gets ahead she's an unholy terror. I dislike champs that you can play very stupidly and carry games with. Not saying every Riven main is stupid... but watch a bronze or silver Riven and try not to get annoyed at how much they can stomp in games because the guy they were laning against was dumb enough to try and trade with her when she went all-in at level 2. I know, I know... git gud silver scrub. It's just frustrating knowing that if MY top laner and their top laner are equally bad at making choices... Riven will probably win because she's Riven and snowball into a monster.

Despite this, having a Riven on my team is just as bad. Why? Well, because she's Riven. She's either gonna stomp the enemy into the ground at level 2... or she's going to die horribly because she's a hyper aggressive faceroller and be utterly useless. A lot of Riven players are also REALLY toxic, salty and prone to afking or feeding too. They'll yolo in against an opponent who's beat them again and again and again because that is all they know how to do as Riven and Riven is pretty useless if she's not snowballing. I dislike her because of the kind of playstyle her kit promotes.

THAT being said... the way to beat Riven was always to know what she could do and punish stupid Riven players who went over-aggressive... and if you did she was crap. The way to punish top lane Naut is... um.... I'll get back to you when I figure it out. The meta really heavily favors champions who are essentially piles of stats now, and there's no real counterplay to those guys. Riven was obnoxious, and I never thought I'd miss her... but after seeing game after game of huge, burly unkillable monsters that can nonetheless kill you with the 0 damage items in their build, I'd take Riven back in a heartbeat. If you don't build damage, you shouldn't do much damage. That's basic game balance. Now we have damage scaling on health, damage scaling on armor, % damage, % true damage... it's absurd. Why ever play something with a vulnerability when you can be a giant pile of beef and still output enough damage to duel people?

I'm on your side, if only for it being the lesser of two evils. These tanky stat piles need to go back to being TANKS, not damage dealers who can't die. I'm fine with top lane Naut being an unkillable CC machine... but he shouldn't be able to blow up his opponents too. Needs fixing.

Keldeones1 votes

Thank you so much for your feedback I appreciate it a ton. I could never agree with you more. To be honest I feel that Riven shouldn't be a champion who when in the hands of unskilled players can still be a terror. I think that knowing how to animation cancel properly and most importantly having basic skills (just being a good player all around) should be the only thing that let's her do that. I am so excited that I've found somebody who also agrees that people who don't build damage shouldn't do damage. I know that my opinion still might be biased towards Riven (and to be honest there are other top laners that have problems too like Jayce, Rumble, etc.). Also, regarding that many Riven's tend to be toxic, I promise I am not like that and try to keep any complaints or toxic thoughts in my head. Thank you for your input. It feels really good to know somebody agrees :)

The Whamboozler1 votes

No prob. I'd rather face a thousand Rivens than another tanky monster top or some splitpush cheesemaster like Udyr and Trynd. Riven at least can be outplayed and will actually try to fight you, not just exploit broken stats or cheesy strats that punish uncoordinated teams.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

Don't write so long paragraphs.

Keldeones1 votes

Sorry, I tried t put spaces so it would be easier to read

Vorazun1 votes

Riven...hasn't been meta since, I think mid Season 2? And that League of Cleaver early S3? Regardless she got hit pretty hard by the ArP changes to LW, and unlike the other assassins really hasn't gotten any compensation (Talon, Zed, all use Duskblade really well. Riven just...doesn't) I guess all you have to do is out-skill your opponents, but right now the top-lane meta is just unkind to her. It's either tanks or ranged, both of which Riven doesn't have the best time with.

Best of luck buddy!

Keldeones1 votes

Thanks man!

The Queen Viper1 votes

Any champ that deals tons of dmg while also having tons of mobility... are never "out of meta" bro.

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