Sion buffs pbe

Step Sis Lux·Apr 7, 2018·13 votes·2,068 views

I thought they said he is too strong and he needs nerf so why they buffed him wtf

29 Comments

Glory ln DeathApr 7, 201813 votes

That's a nerf, not a buff...

Step Sis LuxApr 7, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sbtg91LV,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-07T05:17:28.055+0000)

That's a nerf, not a buff...

On every site sion changed are in Buffs, not nerfs

AhristocatsApr 7, 20183 votes

Sion maxes Q last AD ratio got gutted in early lvl and sion has a shit ton of base ad

so now he either maxes Q to get damage, or W to get tankiness, not both

Glory ln DeathApr 7, 20183 votes

Live:

Rank 1, level 1 deals 64 - 192 damage

Rank 5, level 9 deals 162 - 485 damage

Rank 5, level 18 deals 188 - 565 damage

PBE:

Rank 1, level 1 deals 57 - 171 damage

Rank 5, level 9 deals 157 - 471 damage

Rank 5, level 18 deals 181 - 545 damage

At both level 1 and level 18, you deal 7-21 lower damage with the nerfs. At level 9, if you max Q first, you deal 5-15 lower damage. If you build any amount of AD (Or take Sorcery for Arcane Comet), the difference is even greater.

This is a nerf.

Jinzo TorranceApr 7, 20181 votes

Pretty sure max total AD ratio isn't nerfed, PBE tolltip still show a maximum of 195% AD not a 120% AD at Q level 1, not sure if this is a true buff still, since you need to charge it for 2 seconds to achieve 30 more damage, maybe against minions or early level bush cheese.

Glory ln DeathApr 7, 20181 votes

Hmmmmmmmmm............

It does show that, which is very concerning. It should just be a 0-200% damage modifier based on charge time, soooooo... Dang it Riot, you goofed up!

AhristocatsApr 7, 20181 votes

maybe they changed how the damage modifier based on charge works

RexxieeApr 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sbtg91LV,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2018-04-07T13:24:01.801+0000)

Live:

PBE:

At both level 1 and level 18, you deal 7-21 lower damage with the nerfs. At level 9, if you max Q first, you deal 5-15 lower damage. If you build any amount of AD (Or take Sorcery for Arcane Comet), the difference is even greater.

This is a nerf.

Talk about a love tap.

This will reduce his w.r by 0.1% im sure.

Still does absolutely nothing about how disgusting the champ is with E spam in lane that pokes/waveclears/does everything for 35 mana per cast lmao.

SociopathFriendApr 7, 20181 votes

You can never tell. Riot once put something in the patch notes and didn't even change it- the champion's winrate still fell when nothing had changed.

gabetheguyApr 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

On every site sion changed are in Buffs, not nerfs

did you pass 4th grade arithmetic?

ProfDrDeathApr 7, 20186 votes

Total AD ratio decreased from 65% to 40/45/50/55/60% Base damage increased from 20/40/60/80/100 to 30/48/65/83/100

Remember, a fully charged Q deals up to 3x the minimum damage.

Now, let's combine the base damage values with Sion's base AD without runes or items. How much does the ability actually do?

Q max: From 64/88/112/137/162 to 57/81/105/131/157 (level 1/3/5/7/9) Q second: From 66/99/124/150/173 to 58/89/115/142/167 (level 2/8/10/12/13)

As you see, the damage Q does is decreased compared to before, even on base Sion without any runes or items.

This is due to the ability having a total AD ratio, which means that the written base damage is not the only thing that governs the ability's actual base damage at any given point. With total AD ratios, base AD also affects that damage.

PokladnicaZlaApr 7, 20181 votes

maximum damage increased from 60/120/180/240/300 to 90/143/195/248/300 ( to add)

nardsackApr 7, 20183 votes

Riot is retarded. Honestly the best way to put it...

RexxieeApr 7, 20182 votes

Remember what happened with the janna and galio "nerfs"?

Yeah, thats riot balance team for you.

Step Sis LuxApr 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Remember what happened with the janna and galio "nerfs"?

Yeah, thats riot balance team for you.

Janna get nerfed some months ago like 3 patches in a row

Glory ln DeathApr 7, 20184 votes

Good thing this is clearly a nerf for anyone that can do math.

T4underboltApr 7, 20182 votes

They need to nerf his E poke with comet. Yeah they fixed hitbox so what? It is still spammable and abusable. His poke should involve Q not E.

Glory ln DeathApr 7, 20182 votes

I don't necessarily think this is a bad nerf - Sion's level 1 bush cheese can be pretty nasty, and this shaves off 7-21 damage (based on how long he charges) with no extra AD, or up to 15-45 damage with full AD at level 1 (Sorcery + Domination/Inspiration, Absolute Focus, Long Sword). The nerf also kind of encourages him to max Q earlier, instead of E.

However... I don't think it's the best nerf. I don't know if it's enough to get players to max Q over E, since E is much more useful in laning phase thanks to its ranged poke and waveclear. It probably would have been better to hit the damage or cooldown/mana cost of E, rather than hitting Q.

flibitydooApr 7, 20181 votes

He was only strong when comet worked off the broken hitbox on his E (which they have since fixed).

I think the buff is more in line with the lux W buff- it's a really unreliable ability with a pitiful reward even when used perfectly. So they're adjusting it based on the risk-reward.

Glory ln DeathApr 7, 20182 votes

It's not a buff.

Also, the reward is anything but pitiful (2.25 second AOE stun and pretty significant damage?).

flibitydooApr 7, 20181 votes

it's a 2.25 aoe stun where you stunned yourself for 2 seconds for doing so. and if at any point during those 2 seconds you are disrupted, it's a 2 second stun yourself for jack. It being aoe means jack sh*t given this is a top laner in a meta WHERE FOR THE PAST 4 YEARS JUNGLERS/ NO ONE GOES TOP, leaving you in an island to 1 v 1 your opponent.

and the "significant damage" part is a joke. You could throw two autos on them (that takes 1.5 seconds to do on ALL champions), and it does more damage than you channeling for 2 seconds. And this is top lane, where 3/4 the champs have built in sustain or lifesteal that can outheal it.

Imagine if gangplank's barrels didn't have the armour pen or slow and had damage falloff based on how far away it was from it's target. Imagine if Cass's E didn't have any bonuses for use on poisoned targets. Or if Draven's Q didn't bounce, they were just a one time auto steroid. Sion is meant to be a "mini game champ" in line with stuff like fiora where they aren't balanced around time frames or power spikes but rather the built-in counterplay to their kit meaning you should always be able to outplay/get outplayed by these champions at all phases of the game due to how their kit works. You win by playing well against them rather than waiting until 20 mins like renekton or pantheon.

Glory ln DeathApr 7, 20181 votes

and the "significant damage" part is a joke. You could throw two autos on them (that takes 1.5 seconds to do on ALL champions), and it does more damage than you channeling for 2 seconds.

At rank 1: 60 base damage for a full charge plus 195% total AD. Sion has 68 AD at level 1, meaning a full charge will deal 192.6 damage. Meanwhile, 2 autos deals only 136 damage.

At rank 2 (level 4): 120 base damage plus 195% total AD. 77 AD. A full charge deals 270 damage vs 154 damage from 2 autos.

At rank 3 (level 5): 180 base damage, 80 AD. A full charge deals 336 damage vs 160 damage from 2 autos - twice the damage.

Etc.

Not to mention that landing a fully charged Q means that you also get to land 2 autos, on top of Q's damage.

top laner in a meta WHERE FOR THE PAST 4 YEARS JUNGLERS/ NO ONE GOES TOP, leaving you in an island to 1 v 1 your opponent.

No one said anything about top lane. The game is more than just laning phase, and laning phase is more than just sitting in lane farming. Decimating Smash is one of the most powerful abilities in the game at most points due to its high damage and massive CC potential. The 2 second "self-stun" only hurts Sion if he doesn't hit the enemy with it. And the enemy has to avoid it or attempt to cancel it.

Trying to claim that Decimating Smash is a "pitiful" ability is one of the most laughable notions I've read on the Boards.

FatedSaviourApr 7, 20181 votes

i have never heard he is too strong, can i get a source of this, even when he was meta i only saw 1 good sion that wasnt me, and plz as a sion mains, what are these buffs, gimme gimme

Step Sis LuxApr 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

i have never heard he is too strong, can i get a source of this, even when he was meta i only saw 1 good sion that wasnt me, and plz as a sion mains, what are these buffs, gimme gimme

They gave list for 8.8 and said Panth, vi, naut and spellbindred gonna be buffed and archangel, janna, cait, xayah, ww, braum, sion, kog gonna get nerf

Glory ln DeathApr 7, 20181 votes

It's not a buff, OP can't do math.

Minimum Damage increased from 20/40/60/80/100 to 30/48/65/83/100

Total AD Ratio decreased from 65% at all ranks to 40/45/50/55/60%

The base damage went up at early ranks, but the ratio got gutted, so he deals less damage (7-21 less damage at rank 1, level 1 with no bonus AD, based on charge time) at any point in the game. This actually kind of kills AD Sion, too.

FatedSaviourApr 7, 20181 votes

its a mixed bag, its a decent nerf to full lethal sion, but gives a bit more early game to tankiness, i think its a good direction, despite my love for full lethal sion

AizerosApr 7, 20181 votes

This long period of the tank meta needs to end. the top lane has been so shit to play in. ur like a secondary support u cant make play cuz a tank will always outscale you. please riot put an end to this bullshit