Why I Think New Warwick Is A Failure

Slimegoon··3 votes·1,827 views

I just read the blog post about upcoming updates and thoughts on old updates, and I have to strongly disagree with Riot's take on the Warwick rework. I know this isn't the most popular opinion in general, but a lot of long time Warwick players are unhappy with the rework. Here are what I think are real reasons why the rework failed.

1a) His passive damage took a slight late-game nerf and a slight early-game buff. His passive is most used later in the game when he can stand toe-to-toe with people, so I'll call this a slight nerf. 1b) His passive healing doesn't exist before Warwick is below 50%, huge nerf. His healing from 25% to 50% is either slightly nerfed or buffed, as above. Slight negative. His passive healing is much better when under 25% health, huge buff. Overall, slight nerf. 1c) His passive will never heal you above 50%. It was almost impossible for old Warwick to leave the jungle without full HP. Now it's almost impossible to leave with more than 50% HP. Massive nerf. 2a) Q mana cost and cooldown are both lower, buff. 2b) Q heals for less across the board, nerf. 2c) Q now has a small dash, buff 2d) Q is now full of bugs, nerf 3) The loss of Hunter's Call is huge. While his new W provides more attack speed later in the game, it was for a single person only. With Warwick being a strong initiator, you're almost always around teammates, and giving all of them an 80% attack speed boost was incredible in team fights. This is one reason I am upset with the rework. As someone that played Warwick as a utility initiator with max CDR, losing this makes me feel much less valuable, especially on attack-heavy teams. 4a) Blood Hunt now gives more movement speed than Blood Scent did, buff 4b) Blood Hunt gives a huge steroid on very injured enemies, huge buff 4c) Blood Hunt only works when running towards an injured champion, huge nerf. This really hurts Warwick's ability to get both in and out of fights, and doesn't allow you to use injured enemies as a speed boost to chase healthy enemies. This might not have been intentional/thematic, but I can't count the number of times I took a couple extra hits to get an enemy slightly lower to trigger Blood Scent to get away faster. 4d) Blood Hunt can't be turned off, huge nerf. Another nerf that can't be understated. It's very easy for people to forget about the jungle. When you have a red blood wolf over you, not so much. Being able to turn off Blood Scent and kick it back on right as you popped out of the bush was awesome. Now enemies get low, see a warning, and start playing differently. It ruins his ability to sneak while on the prowl. 5a) Primal Howl gives damage reduction, which is a buff. That being said, damage wasn't the problem Warwick had. 5b) Primal Howl gives an AOE fear. Big buff 6a) I'm not really sure how the healing stacks up for R yet. It seems like it hasn't changed much but I could be wrong. 6b) R now applies on hit 3 times instead of 5. Big nerf. 6c) R has at least the same range to much greater. Big buff 6d) R is now a skillshot.

I need to mention this by itself, as this is the biggest change to his kit and where I feel he didn't need to be changed. The suppression and point-and-click on his ult were already balanced by 1) launching yourself into harms way when you can be b) easily interrupted with c) no escape skills. The upside was a guaranteed lock-down of hard to hit targets. Warwick was my go-to jungle pick against very mobile champions (Riven, Vayne, Ezreal, Kassadin). With the change of R to skillshot, it's now become next to impossible to hit these champions. Meanwhile, immobile champions are still having the same problems avoiding Warwick's ult. This change let Warwick engage from slightly further away, while destroying his role as a lock-down jungle. This is by far the biggest nerf in my opinion, and completely ruined Warwick. Any champion with a dash or something similar now won't fear Warwick in the slightest, and Warwick players will now have to engage unseen and further away from the enemy team to have any hope of landing his ult.

I'm sure I could list some more, but I think this hits the major points. His win rate is still sub-49%, although at this point it could be from all the non-Warwick players trying him out. But I doubt we'll see much shift in the coming weeks. We won't see him in pro/high level play often and I'm willing to bet after the shine wears off we'll see him less.

8 Comments

Sett up 4my gank3 votes

I disagree with a large portion of the post but agree with some other things.

  1. Now it's almost impossible to leave with more than 50% HP. Massive nerf. I do not know what you are doing wrong here but WW can sustain indefinitely in the jungle with his Q healing so much. I can literally get no leash, do 3 camps and come out full health without smiting easily.

2.**Q heals for less across the board, nerf. ** I'm pretty sure this is also wrong. In some situations it does heal less, but it heals for 70% of 120% ad, + 10% max health, + ANY ON HIT EFFECT'S. Where as old Q healed for 80% of 275- i can't really remember the % health was it 18% max level? IDR. Healing still seems quite good to me, its CD is also 4 seconds lower at rank 1 and the same at rank 5 which kind of makes up for the fact its only 30% at rank 1 scaling to 70%.

3.** Primal Howl gives damage reduction, which is a buff. That being said, damage wasn't the problem Warwick had.**

While you were right in calling this a buff you massively understated it 55% damage reduction for 2.5 seconds every 11 seconds with 0 CDR is a MASSSSSSSIIIIIIIIVVVVVEEEEEEE buff. The synergy it has with the rest of your kit is even more incredible. Pop this bad boy at 25% health with your ult and you are healing for "assuming you are level 18" 132 x 3 "passive with ult using on hits 3 times" + somewhere around 525 + 150% bonus AD or something from the ult + another 44 x 3 because your ult heals for all damage dealt, and your passive does 44 damage a hit. As well as every other on hit item you have. We can normally assume you have blood razer and titanic. titanic adding probably 30 damage a hit blood razer being 4% max health a hit. titanic adds 35 Ad and runes masteries add about 30 IIRC. so 65x3 = 195 more damage onto your ult that heals you. Let's add all this assuming the target has 2000 health.

525 "Ult base" + 195 "Ult scale" + 132x3 "passive below 20% + 44x3 "on hit passive for ult" + "4% HP"

525 + 195 + (132x3) + (44x3) + (2000x.04)x3) = 525 + 195 + 396 + 132 + 240 = 1488

Now of course thats reduced by however much MR/armor the opponent has which im assuming is between 40-50% as well as your passive only healing for 44 whenever you get above 20% health so we can reasonably say WW heals for around 600-800 damage during his ult if low on health. NOW the big thing is that the ideal way to play it is to use your E at about 50% health and have the enemy drop you to 15-20% then ult, an by that time your E is probably only on a 6 second ish cooldown your Q is off cooldown so you heal another large portion from that and if you survive long enough you get a SECOND wave of 55% damage reduction.

In no way do I claim this math to be perfectly accurate this is just me quickly adding it all up based on loose but educated numbers.

In otherwords I actually think his E was by far the biggest buff to his kit because of the way it synergizes. That's not even adding the fact it fears.

TequilaZombie1 votes

Proper math (because someone would have to):

At level 18, Warwick will be healing for [with only Q+R]:

@25% hp: 921+84% Total AD+167,5% Bonus AD+63% AP+7% of the target's max health

@50% hp: 657+84% Total AD+167,5% Bonus AD+63% AP+7% of the target's max health

@100% hp: 525+84% Total AD+167,5% Bonus AD+63% AP+7% of the target's health

As you can notice, the scaling is still the same, but the base heal goes off like crazy at 25% and is noticeable at 50%.

It's also worth noticing that it's all done through the damage he deals as magic damage, so if he's healing too much, some MR might be in order.

Sett up 4my gank1 votes

{quoted}

Proper math (because someone would have to):

At level 18, Warwick will be healing for [with only Q+R]:

@25% hp: 921+84% Total AD+167,5% Bonus AD+63% AP+7% of the target's max health

@50% hp: 657+84% Total AD+167,5% Bonus AD+63% AP+7% of the target's max health

@100% hp: 525+84% Total AD+167,5% Bonus AD+63% AP+7% of the target's health

As you can notice, the scaling is still the same, but the base heal goes off like crazy at 25% and is noticeable at 50%.

It's also worth noticing that it's all done through the damage he deals as magic damage, so if he's healing too much, some MR might be in order.

You should explain where you are getting these numbers from. As if you are using his Q and at level 18 his Q does 10% max health not 7 for one. His Q also is 120% base AD and 90% ap which I don't see anywhere.

Unless my math is just straight up wrong somewhere which it could, then I feel like it give a better realistic number / scenario as I factored in average build / stats into it .

TequilaZombie1 votes

His Q heals for 30/40/50/60/70% (scaling with ranks) of the damage dealt. As a result:

  • The 10% max health turns into a 7%
  • The 120% AD turns into a 84%
  • The 90% AP turns into a 63%

EDIT: I didn't mentioned that he also heals for 400% of every on-hit effect (except for his passive, which is already accounted for) during his QR combo.

Sett up 4my gank1 votes

{quoted}

His Q heals for 30/40/50/60/70% (scaling with ranks) of the damage dealt. As a result:

  • The 10% max health turns into a 7%
  • The 120% AD turns into a 84%
  • The 90% AP turns into a 63%

EDIT: I didn't mentioned that he also heals for 400% of every on-hit effect (except for his passive, which is already accounted for) during his QR combo.

Okay yeah you are right, sorry I didn't add Q into my own math so I didn't tthink about the 70% healing.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

It's also worth noticing that it's all done through the damage he deals as magic damage, so if he's healing too much, some MR might be in order.

The would reduce the healing from his Q and ultimate.

AFAIK, his passive's heal is independent from the damage it deals.

ApexInTheCircle2 votes

I agree and disagree with some of your post...However. You're absolutely right about not being able to toggle his blood scent, this is an incredibly large nerf.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

Honestly, the big issue I think Warwick has is that he's just so fucking slow. His W is too unreliable to make up for being a short-ranged melee champion with 335 movement speed.

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