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Matchmaking and ranked

SapperPAG··1 votes·1,253 views

Hi,

I'm sharing here my thoughts, after another stressful game, bot feeding, Hecarim carrying the enemy away from team just to save him... you know, classic low elo BS.

I like LOL and I would like to scale the ranks and for people like me there is a big difference between RANKED and NORMAL games.

Reality is 97% of ranked players are low elo, most of them don't take it seriously and just play to ruin the game to others.This kind of people have a huge impact on low elo ranked games, hence we have the "ELO HELL".

For these kind of guys the word RANKED means nothing. And to speak the truth there are ZERO differences between a normal and ranked game, i mean same rules, game-play, limitations, same everything.

So: Problem #1: People who are playing with champions they don't know. Solution: You cant use champs for which you dont have a mastery 6. Doesn't apply from platinum and up. Let's get into a ranked game cause you want to win together with your teammates doing the best you can. If you wondering, what if I don't have a M6 champ, THEN you just dont play ranked, you are not good enough, that's it, EASY. Have fun in normal, aram, TFT whatever... Also IRON division doesn't make any sense, just remove it, if you IRON you just don't give a single fq about the game, understanding it and winning.

Problem #2: Matchmaking completely fucked up. Solution: MMR calculation should be public and it should be an EASY calculation, it shouldn't be affected by win/lose, but by personal performance, penalizing negative KDA, low vision score, cs below avg. How many times you see someone 0/6 still winning a game, therefore stealing your LP, because of a smurf 1v9ing your team? Is just not fare.

With just the implementation of the solution for problem 1, the quality of the games would increase immediately. Then my question is why RIOT is not doing anything? It would that easy!

Peace,

(sorry for grammar, I'm a foreigner)

5 Comments

Keiaga1 votes

Bad ideas and bad opinions

SapperPAG1 votes

Please explain to me, I'm trying to understand

Kai Guy1 votes

@locked by mastery. Champion mastery does not exactly serve as a great indicator of skill. You would also need to adjust champion swap as not being able to select picks to trade with low mastery would be a drag.

@individual stats. MMR and Elo are mathematical systems build around probability and statistical concepts. You can use stats but they have to be designed correct to not incentivize behavior that negatively impacts winning. Sadly, in league that's almost impossible to separate because of how stats generate. Not all classes value KDA equally and all champions value it differently, so you can make it off player population and do it on a curve, which is RNG and unreliable due to popularity impacting generated values. Or on a base value which is abusable the moment it becomes public information. Basicaly all in game stats are easyer to pad then to win the game with, spamming takes less effort then using the ability for its best case.

You get more CC from spamming Fiddlesticks 's fear. However you team might be relying on you to use it to peel a MasterYi or cancel a Katarina R. A bad player will cast it on any target the moment its in range then throw E. A better player will hold the ability if its not the ideal usage. Resulting in the worse player having better CC score but lower impact because ability's on CD present no threat. Karthus who hits R every time its off cd has higher damage from that ability then the one who hold its for securing otherwise escaped kills or to help teammates win a fight.

The core MM issues are the unreliability of Population/the inconsistencies of human behavior. The gameplay experience is not a factor, close or one sided are not big deals to a Elo biased system because individual games are not valued as much as trends in play. I would say that the main issues and frustrations that people have tend to be about behavior systems not identifying and removing toxic accounts and unavoidable issues in skill gaps made from high uncertainty games and Riots excessively large duo range.

End of the day every match with a game losing player is one that your more likely to be favored to win. 1 slot on your team is you, always. so the 4/9 vs 5/9 is a pretty wide gap of games over time your gonna get a win. Just more dramatic when that idiot player is one of your 4 teamamtes.

SapperPAG1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s6x4AHL1,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-11-15T22:56:35.216+0000)

@locked by mastery. Champion mastery does not exactly serve as a great indicator of skill. You would also need to adjust champion swap as not being able to select picks to trade with low mastery would be a drag.

That is exactly my point: you must enforce a differences between Normal and Ranked and have players to prepare for it. You can use normal games to build up your own pool of champs and THEN go Ranked. You can get m6 in about a month and during this time you will have the chance to play vs different mach-ups gaining experience and knowledge. I dont care if it takes 6 months or more, again RANKED must mean something. Also because you HAVE to prepare an account to go ranked this will reduce fake accounts used to sell wins, inting, smurfing, boosting and all the SHIT that is going on on LOL. A BAN will mean something again.

@individual stats. MMR and Elo are mathematical systems build around probability and statistical concepts. You can use stats but they have to be designed correct to not incentivize behavior that negatively impacts winning. Sadly, in league that's almost impossible to separate because of how stats generate. Not all classes value KDA equally and all champions value it differently, so you can make it off player population and do it on a curve, which is RNG and unreliable due to popularity impacting generated values. Or on a base value which is abusable the moment it becomes public information. Basicaly all in game stats are easyer to pad then to win the game with, spamming takes less effort then using the ability for its best case.

No matter what is your role a negative KDA (kills and assists/deaths) is the result of bad decisions and lack of knowledge, a positive KDA means you are doing good either as a carry, a support or a jungler/top. Same having a 0 vision score, low cs etc. Your team feeding, you play safe you keep your performance optimal, they will lose LP you will gain LP.

You get more CC from spamming Fiddlesticks 's fear. However you team might be relying on you to use it to peel a MasterYi or cancel a Katarina R. A bad player will cast it on any target the moment its in range then throw E. A better player will hold the ability if its not the ideal usage. Resulting in the worse player having better CC score but lower impact because ability's on CD present no threat. Karthus who hits R every time its off cd has higher damage from that ability then the one who hold its for securing otherwise escaped kills or to help teammates win a fight.

The main problem is ONLY if the player in question doesn't know how the champion he's using works and how to maximize the efficiency of his kit; Know other champions and hold on the use of abilities require a bit of experience, but that's why we have different divisions.

The core MM issues are the unreliability of Population/the inconsistencies of human behavior. The game-play experience is not a factor, close or one sided are not big deals to a Elo biased system because individual games are not valued as much as trends in play. I would say that the main issues and frustrations that people have tend to be about behavior systems not identifying and removing toxic accounts and unavoidable issues in skill gaps made from high uncertainty games and Riots excessively large duo range.

You fix population unreliability enforecing rules, RANKED are not just another way to spend time, RANKED are for people who believe in the game. You ask player to prepare for ranked i bet 90% of trolls will stop playing ranked immediately... A DREAM!

End of the day every match with a game losing player is one that your more likely to be favored to win. 1 slot on your team is you, always. so the 4/9 vs 5/9 is a pretty wide gap of games over time your gonna get a win. Just more dramatic when that idiot player is one of your 4 teamamtes.

The chance to play with that idiot is too random and too high in low ELO. Again, you wanna keep MM system as it is? fine, but at least set barriers at the entrance. RANKED is not for everybody.

Kai Guy1 votes

@mastery. Just grinding in normal is not gonna change some one who refuses to try and improve and cookie cutters games. Any one can do it. All it does is lower ranked population and weaken team comps. Encouraging folks to only play a low pool is bad if you care about teamcomps, team composition being kinda a core part of mobas.

A min level of mastery to show players have some experience is fine first time champions do tend to be negative almost always. but making it grindy as hell for weeks per champion is not.

No matter what is your role a negative KDA (kills and assists/deaths) is the result of bad decisions and lack of knowledge, a positive KDA means you are doing good either as a carry, a support or a jungler/top. Same having a 0 vision score, low cs etc. Your team feeding, you play safe you keep your performance optimal, they will lose LP you will gain LP.

I will happily trade my life in a vast majority of situations to keep my ADC alive and well. Same for if its the requirement to win fights is I engage with champions like Alistar Leona

Again. its just to easy to play for stats and takes way less effort then playing for a win.

The main problem is ONLY if the player in question doesn't know how the champion he's using works and how to maximize the efficiency of his kit

No, the problem is playing for stats is easy but a negative value for your team. Padding KDA Damage and vision takes less work then breaking the enemy Nexus. Rewarding stats that are not positives to your teammate is always a mistake. Here is the Trueskill 2 info on the topic.

Aligned incentives. The skill rating system should create incentives that align with the spirit of the game. For example, consider a team game where players cooperate to achieve a goal. An improperly-designed skill rating system could encourage players to impede their teammates. As another example, consider a system that increased skill rating according to the number of times a player healed themselves. This creates an incentive for a player to repeatedly injure themselves so that they could be healed. In general, the more control that a player has over a quantity, the less useful it is for skill rating.

Ranked is for building closer skill gaps and finding out where players end up on the curve. You use behavior syst ems to remove Trolls.

Like, if you make players have to authenticate accounts or If you have Lower tolerance rules that provide Ranked que bans lasting up to an entire split, etc. Its better to target the behaviors and remove toxic players from the que/game. You run 24/7 que and the population is gonna be RNG for MM to deal with. People come and go, high games low games. Its a unpredictable beast so you sort by player trends.

The chance to play with that idiot is too random and too high in low ELO. Again, you wanna keep MM system as it is? fine, but at least set barriers at the entrance. RANKED is not for everybody.

it pretty much is for everybody, that's what its made for. Seeing a 24/7 que with at will participation is the giveaway. The proplay level and tournament play however, is not for everybody.

Ranked should be a challenge of seeing how high you can go and then trying to improve on that. Games are intended to be more competitive and comparatively to normal they consistently are, even in lower-mid Elo's.

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