New Ashe, no crit?

ThermoFusion·Apr 29, 2015·2 votes·3,616 views

So I'm liking the new Ashe kit, machine gun arrows are cool, and improved global hawk-shot is awesome. But I'm not understanding this crit thing.

> Passive: [NEW] Frost Shot > > Ashe slows whoever she damages with her basic attacks and abilities. > > Ashe's basic attacks always deal bonus damage to slowed targets, replacing her ability to critically strike. Bonus damage increases with her critical strike chance.

Removing crit, but then still expecting me to build crit, but instead of critical hits I do more flat damage, but only circumstantially... so why not just build more flat damage? And if the increased bonus damage from crit is only there to prevent the crit on the major ADC items from becoming useless. Then really, why is this change here at all? I build exactly the same as any other ADC, I just don't crit anymore? Seems like a missed opportunity offer build diversity for an ADC.

The only thing that would makes this make sense to me is if this is a sign that Riot wants to phase out crit all together. To me, that would be disappointing, as I like critical hits as a concept, and I do like the idea of critical hits doing more than just random damage spikes, but this kit just functionally removes them all together. Bonus damage to slowed targets? But all auto attacks add a slow? It's virtually identical to just building more damage.

And also I got to know: does my critical damage rune page mean anything on this new kit? I built that rune page for playing Ashe...

18 Comments

BerserkGoldfishApr 29, 20153 votes

I don't have the link, but this is how crit works for ashe now.

you have 100% crit? you do the same as a normal person critting. you have 50%? you do 150% damage all the time instead of 100% half the time and 200% the other half 20%? you do 120% damage every shot instead of 200% every 5~ shots.

so essentially what it does is it takes away RNG and gives her an early/mid game power advantage for sustained fights. also her extra arrows on Q can crit with this formula.

crit damage mods are also in effect.

((AD)x 1.1)+(((AD)x((crit chance percentage)x(1+crit damage perc)))

it looks like that

so in non math terms.

crit percentage and crit damage are now additive percent increases to ashes autoattacks capping at 100% chance. so like 100% crit chance and maxed out crit damage runes/IE, her AAs will be doing appx 275% of her ad

where she becomes better is that if she only has 75% crit chance, she wont do only 100% ad one in 4 times, shell do ~250% every time

ThermoFusionApr 29, 20151 votes

Thanks for those numbers!

The5lackerApr 29, 20153 votes

If by "circumstantial" you mean "on every attack after the first."

10% crit chance increases your average DPS by 10%. Buying 10% crit chance on Ashe still increases her DPS by 10%. There is pretty much no change, it's just more reliable now. And it's not flat damage: It's a % damage increase. Which is what Crit chance always was.

Critmaster GarenApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If by "circumstantial" you mean "on every attack after the first."

10% crit chance increases your average DPS by 10%. Buying 10% crit chance on Ashe still increases her DPS by 10%. There is pretty much no change, it's just more reliable now. And it's not flat damage: It's a % damage increase. Which is what Crit chance always was.

in prolonged fights yes. in short skirmishes, the rng of crit shows too much.

The5lackerApr 29, 20152 votes

Exactly: Which is why Crits need to be removed. In their entirety. Not daintly built around on a champ-by-champ basis.

Critmaster GarenApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Exactly: Which is why Crits need to be removed. In their entirety. Not daintly built around on a champ-by-champ basis.

i dont think crit needs to be removed entirely. just the randomness of critical strikes.

The5lackerApr 29, 20151 votes

And your suggestion for keeping crits while removing the single defining feature of crits is...?

ItsStoutApr 29, 20151 votes

Is there any bloody way on earth for me to PM you because unfortunately the Forum's aren't great for discussion. (This is only relevant because I wanna work on getting rid of Crits)

ThermoFusionApr 29, 20151 votes

You're right. And actually, if it really was circumstantial it would be more interesting. But "bonus damage on slowed targets" when everything you do slows the target.. then why is this mechanic here at all?

And you're right about the % damage too. Thanks for pointing that out.

The5lackerApr 29, 20152 votes

It promotes sustained engagements against the people Ashe have slowed. It's just a completely ridiculous attempt to work around the staggeringly terrible mechanic that is Critical Hits.

This kind of RNG has absolutely no place in a competitive game, and only currently exists because Riot hasn't been able to figure out how to keep Marksmen relevant without it.

Sire HippingtonApr 29, 20151 votes

the crit thing is probably a testrun for an overall crit-overhaul. Ashe gains as much dps from crit as any other champ gets on average, just flattend out rather than rng-based, makeing it more reliable for both her and her enemies to plan around it.

ThermoFusionApr 29, 20151 votes

What bothers me about it, at least in the context of this kit, is that they would gain the same functionality from just removing crit altogether.

Blue KaoziApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What bothers me about it, at least in the context of this kit, is that they would gain the same functionality from just removing crit altogether.

As long as theyre slowed shes guaranteed damage. This means the first AA wont crit, but its guaranteed damage after that. Alternatively, your w will proc the slow, ensuring more damage on every AA. I think its pretty neat. Combined with new q, thats a ton of single target damage.

Sire HippingtonApr 29, 20151 votes

by just removing crit you would take away a strong multipler for AAs, by replaceing it with %amp, they remove the rng while maintaining the dps-scaleing.

FHMarshyApr 29, 20151 votes

I think Crit is just something almost every ADC gets now. IE with PD basically already give you 55% Crit.

Critmaster GarenApr 29, 20151 votes

i dont think theyre going to replace crit by this system though. its not a test run for replacing crit, but rather champions interacting differently with crit. if they would replace crit like this, they would turn it into a relatively boring stat. also it would make ashes passive mute.

there might be other unique abilities in the future that trigger when scoring critical stikes, or that scale with crit chance/damage in the future.

however, id like to see the removal of crits randomness in the end

tbh. this crit passive might aswell have been yasuos passive.

BerserkGoldfishApr 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rtY5uRAy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-04-29T15:08:16.403+0000)

i dont think theyre going to replace crit by this system though. its not a test run for replacing crit, but rather champions interacting differently with crit. if they would replace crit like this, they would turn it into a relatively boring stat. also it would make ashes passive mute.

there might be other unique abilities in the future that trigger when scoring critical stikes, or that scale with crit chance/damage.

however, id like to see the removal of crits randomness in the end

tbh. this crit passive might aswell have been yasuos passive.

I don't think they'll ever remove RNG, because critical means just that, lucky shot, perfect shot.

I hope there are more interactions with crit in the future though.

Like personally Id like to see a champ that does this

"critical strikes instead make your oppennent bleed for 2 seconds" damage be like max hp% =(((crir chance(as the percentage) x 100)x.03)x(1+crit damage modifier)) each second and can stack twice, continuous AAS refresh the duration

so like 100% crit chance with IE and crid damage runes would be 3%x1.95=5.85%maxhp per second after one crit as long as you keep attacking stacked up would be 11.7max HP per second

would be cool on like a yordle assassin with the passive named "the bigger they are..."

BerserkGoldfishApr 29, 20151 votes

we just need to be able to build to defend against crits like

Thornmail new passive-deals double damage to the attacker when critically struck

or Tabi new passive-reduces critical strikes by 20% instead