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When it is ok to blame the jungler.

macromite··12 votes·5,476 views

I am a jungler, and I am sick of getting yelled at by bot and top when they both wanted ganks at the same time, So I'm going to give a list of times to properly be mad at your jungler.

  1. If your jungler gets executed in their first clear. If they die at this point Obviously they don't know the role, pretty much every character in league can full clear without dying when played right.

  2. If your jungler Is playing a farm intensive jungler and they are chain ganking. If you see warwick attempting more than one pre 6 gank, then warwick is not playing correctly, and is getting himself drastically behind.

  3. If your jungler is playing a gank jungler and they are exerting no pressure across the map while the game is even. Specifically if a jungler is too weak to gank, then farming is still fine, but so long as the game is nearly even a ganker like lee or elise should be exerting some pressure. I should also note that this is ACROSS MAP, just because someone isn't getting ganked that doesn't mean that there is no pressure.

And to my knowledge there are never any other times to get mad at your jungler. If you aren't getting ganks try to figure out why a jungler wouldn't touch your lane with a 20 foot pole before you decide your jungler is brain dead.

52 Comments

JackMcSnipeyz12 votes

When a jungler comes to lane and gives a kill to the enemy when you have 10 health but "LOL NOOB 2v1 NO MORE GANKS TOP". When the jungler tower dives for no reason. When a jungler failed the gank and stays to take more than any acceptable farm for doing nothing (wasting flash is not a fail gank, walking in lane and doing nothing is, dont take my farm).

Junglers, like supports - arent saints, you have responsibility like every other role, and you can preform badly, stop this circlejerk like when the supports had the phase like they were some sort of abused house wife with nothing but good intentions.

macromite2 votes

Junglers have a lot of responsibility to shoulder. If a jungler feels like they can gank, even if you are nearly dead it is your responsibility to assist them. Keep in mind a solid cc chain can negate the enemy's entire damage output. If anyone dives and you don't ollow up then you are actively just playing stupidly. not taking tower aggro while hitting the enemy is literally a great thing. and whenever a jungler taxes you you should just accept it. junglers need gold just as much as laners do, so if a gank fails they might still need something from it, especially if they aren't playing something with decent clears.

Junglers aren't saint, but I find that at least 70% of them aren't as braindead as people think they are.

JackMcSnipeyz6 votes

{quoted}

Junglers have a lot of responsibility to shoulder. If a jungler feels like they can gank, even if you are nearly dead it is your responsibility to assist them. Keep in mind a solid cc chain can negate the enemy's entire damage output. If anyone dives and you don't ollow up then you are actively just playing stupidly. not taking tower aggro while hitting the enemy is literally a great thing. and whenever a jungler taxes you you should just accept it. junglers need gold just as much as laners do, so if a gank fails they might still need something from it, especially if they aren't playing something with decent clears.

Junglers aren't saint, but I find that at least 70% of them aren't as braindead as people think they are.

No, just because the junglets THINKs he can gank doesn't mean the laner should follow, i've been playing against this guy not you, there's a reason im at 10 health and he at half. Even if we trade kills, the enemy laner is still getting a kill and all the pressure was for nothing because he comes back with 300 extra gold.

And no you shouldn't just Accept junglers taking your farm sinply for walking into my lane "ganking", just like if a jungler pings me to back off a camp, i expect the jungler to back off my minions when he didnt do anything.

This all falls into the "saint" catagory - "you should just trust your junglet when he comed to gank, he "knows" what his doing. Just accept the jungler will take your farm for walking into your lane, they need the gold.

Im not hating on junglers, my 2nd favorite role is divided by jungle or top, but im sick of these countless circlejerk jungler threads saying how every lane is shit and junglers are the ones having to carry all the time.

macromite2 votes

More often than not ganks fail because of a lack of follow up. Kill+assist is more valuable than a kill.

I don't think you understand, jungler needs gold to gank. If a jungler is starved then the jungler loses. Jungle should feel free to take some farm to go somewhere else, don't be a cs whore, Pay your taxes.

No, this all falls into the trust issues category, you seem to immediately distrust your allies. give them credit, respect them, and see where that gets you.

JackMcSnipeyz4 votes

That all depends, who gets the kill? If its the jungler, im now stuck 1 less kill in a lane i was already losing, if i get the kill, its still an even matchup, trading kills isnt worth it for thd sake of getting a kill, if you dont get something out of it (like turret, dragon etc..) you pretty much kept the stacks the same in lane.

And ill say again - junglers arent starving for gold, they have an entire jungle + the ability to be a part of every kill im any lane, just because YOU need gold doesnt mean I dont need it too, just because your lane has enemirs doesnt mean you get kills like it's call lf duty.

And i can spin that around, why doesnt the jungler trust me it's a bad idea to gank? Like i said - i laned against that guy, i know how he plays, i dont care if you get a kill in the price of my death, when all it takes is 1 skill or ignite. GO Back, come back when the opportunity presents itself later and you dont trade kills for your own benefits.

macromite2 votes

You Are over valuing the gold from a kill and undervaluing the gold from an assist.

From kill is about 13 cs, two waves and one minion. From the assist is about 6 cs, one wave.

Even if the laner doesn't get the kill they aren't actually dramatically behind, so long as they get the assist.

and something about jungle mobs is that they give less gold than minions do. the first wave gives more gold than any individual camp, and minions become more valuable as the game goes on, whereas the jungle camps keep the same value throughout the entire game.

Daizumi1 votes

And to add on to what Macromite is saying lets put something in perspective. As a Jungle main I completely understand that if a gank fails you shouldn't tax, but then if the gank fails then it becomes a situation where laners will want us to gank again but we need to make up (in gold and time) for the gank we just failed by farming a bit.

Next, If I get a kill and you get an assist but your laner gets a kill its super worth. your argument about you being at a disadvantage for that death in lane maybe true, but for 1, you get a certain amoutn of gold so it isn't just 300+ gold ahead, its as low as 150 or maybe 200 ish gold ahead os its not too bad. For two, Junglers can use that gold to snowball the game more because we influence the entire map. So with that 300 gold, we could gank mid again even stronger, we could go top and help top, or we can go bot, or kill the enemy jungler or take an objective whereas if you got the kill and I died, then every lane for an X amount of time loses map pressure and unless if you plan on roaming a lot, that gold only influences 1 lane.

side note: either way I still find that worth if I die and the laner gets the kill or vice versa, don't get that twisted.

Dukues4 votes

That's fine if not for the fact that every game a team losing its "stupid jungler gg". Your right jungle needs to take blame as well, but so do the other lanes we they are failing yet jungle usually used as the scapegoat.

JackMcSnipeyz7 votes

I've honestly barely see it happening, definetly not like you people are saying that it's in every game. The guy who takes the flame is always the guy with the lowest KD, jungler or not. "lol adc? 3-7 what a noon" "Gg illaoi went 2-6 in lane" This isnt a jungle specific problem, it goes all around

Dukues1 votes

Its probably just whatever role I am playing at the time.

hence I = noob :(.

Just feel at lower elos jungle is blamed the most. Or at least pinged the most and its annoying as fuck like OP said you can't gank every lane at the same time.

LIke if I am your jungler please let me know when your lane uses summoners and maybe ping once if you need some help. But if you constantly ping or constantly type "free kill my lane please gank" over and over I will hate you and will mute you. I am bad, but I look at the map enough to generally see where gank opportunities are. There will be so many times my teammate says shit like "please gank my lane" and they will have the enemy pushed to turret...... [zombie-brand-facepalm]

JackMcSnipeyz2 votes

I understand what you're saying, but the key word is - whenever im playing. Not because you're bad, but because you remember when you get flamed the most, you sometimes dont even notice when the ADC blames the support, or the jungler blames mid for not following up on a doomed gank, play other roles and you'll see the hate is shared equally.

Dukues1 votes

You are wise. Thanks for your insight :).

JasonDoetMaar1 votes

it happened to me just now i litterally said in chat pls dont come top i can handle alone (cuz i know hes stupid) what does he do tower dive a gnar that was 80% hp and almost getting mega wow nice play

ThugWalrus7 votes
  1. When a jungler mismanages your wave to an extent that it puts you at a disadvantage in the laning phase. I feel like wave control is a skill not really known by a lot of junglers, but it is pretty important. I guess you can't really blame the whole game on the jungler in this case, but it can really screw your lane.

The worst example of this is pushing it so that it freezes just before the enemy's turret after a gank. I hate when this happens to me when I'm playing champs like GP who don't like to be extended in top lane, or just when when I'm playing against champs like Riven, Ekko, or Fiora who can run you all the way back to your turret if you can't duel them

I also dislike when junglers don't help you push out a wave after a successful gank to protect you from TPs and counter-ganks, but you can usually ping for help with this one.

macromite2 votes

Decent points, But when it comes to wave management it's normally not because a jungler doesn't know, it's more because a jungler is trying to shove the lane as hard as they can. It's a flub in timing more than a flub in last hitting.

And the second one really does sound like a pet peeve, there are too many instances where doing the opposite is helpful for it to be really considered a thing to get particularly mad at.

ThePartyLeader5 votes

It's OK to blame the jungler when you are the jungler. Otherwise it's pretty much a waste of words, time, and focus.

Borror4 votes

In my experience, if a jungler dies in their 1st clear, sometimes it's better to just tell them " just think of it as a long b :D". If they died in their 1st clear, they are probably hating themselves anyways and being positive can really give the whole team the pick me up that they all probably need after that.

Lordk0z2 votes

When they try to gank a lane that clearly isn't feasible.

Ie, a champ well suited to 2v1 killstreaks when in a lead, ie Darius with Dunk up, Illaoi with enough tentacles, Allied Laner clearly in no shape to help (Ie. 20% hp and about to recall), powerful early game ADC/Support duos, when one of the normal laners are missing, or otherwise ganking in a situation where it would clearly backfire.

macromite2 votes

Eh, I've seen that go both ways, but good point.

Penns2 votes

2.I mean, sometimes even WW can do successful (counter)ganks pre 6, but generally youre right.

Also 4. When your jungler dies to your laner with double buff after you pinged him back 5 times because your jungler has less than half hp and there are 2 minion waves at your tower feelsbadman

macromite1 votes

Good enough point, But under circumstance I find that junglers heavily rely on their allies, looking at the bigger picture without looking at details like minions crashing into a tower, so when you pinged your jungler back I suppose he was instead wanting for you to get into position, and in that spot probably expected a winning position.

Otherwise though a decent enough point.

Jungle Lux God2 votes

2 and 3 are heavily dependent on the game state.

If the opposing laners are overextending a lot, then there's no reason not to gank a bit regardless of whether or not you are playing a gank-oriented jungler. Just showing up to lane a bit just to say "stop that" and tack on some damage onto the enemy laner is a nice idea because you are putting pressure on the enemy. Chain-ganking doesn't make sense to do as a farming jungler, but if you see opportunities then go ahead.

Same thing with gank-focused junglers. If every lane is winning and snowballing and isn't giving your opportunities to gank, then there's no reason to actually try to gank, so you might as well just farm. It's not the most interesting way to win, but you'll take it anyways.

macromite1 votes

There are exceptions to most every rule. including this one, there are no exceptions to the first rule.

Kinetika2 votes

I agree for the most part. I main jungle and I believe it is the role that receives the most abuse from teammates. If any lane gets behind, you will get blamed, especially if that lane is occupied by a Yasuo, Vayne, Riven, or Zed.

My off roles are mid/top, and the only thing that occasionally pisses me off is when a jungler pings a gank, and then doesn't actually come into lane. Don't ping if you aren't coming to lane. Also, a lot of junglers don't lane gank....this is the most effective gank when done correctly because escapes are nearly impossible.

macromite1 votes

I love using all the gank routes. Of course can't knock the river gank, old reliable girl her, but those lane brush ganks are DEVASTATING.

Kinetika1 votes

Especially when your jungler has a gap closer

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

If a jungler pings they are coming for a gank and then don't come, something likely occurred which changed their mind.

They should probably issue a Yellow ping to indicate that they aren't coming afterall, but there is nothing wrong with altering a decision upon further consideration.

Kinetika1 votes

Yeah I main jungle. If I run into an enemy or need to change direction for some reason, I will ping a warning so the laner knows to back off.

Ever play top or mid, jungler pings when they're sitting in a bush....you go all in and jungler walks away? That's what I'm talking about

DrCyanide2 votes

When a Jungler:

  1. Is behind on farm
  2. Isn't ganking
  3. Isn't looking to secure neutral objectives

Then that Jungler "lost lane" to the other Jungler.

I don't care if you didn't give me Blue Buff, or if you didn't gank for me, but you better be doing something around the map, otherwise why are you in this game?

CookyPrince2 votes

When the jungler feeds your lane and you aren't even there

Daizumi2 votes

I agree with you 100%. I think one of the problems for me is that since I main jungle, I don't understand why the whole blaming thing starts in the first place.

  1. It is not our job to win your lane for you. Our job focuses on controlling objectives and Ganking lanes to get them ahead to get those objectives is part of that. Is ganking part of the job description? yes. is it our primary sole mission? no.

  2. I don't understand (especially if they don't communicate) why they mess up so badly in the first place (besides bot lane). I don't even lane ( I hate laning tbh) but when I lane I Play under the assumption that I'll get no help at all. if I need help Ill tell my jungler but i wont force him to help me period. And most of the time I do decent in my lane. I rarely go 0 and 3 or 0 and 4 during laning phase which is why I don't understand why people who main laning need so much help.

  3. I think laners also need to understand that where I spend my time is dependent on the champions and what dragon is up. So if I see that the first dragon is fire or mountain dragon, im sorry @ top lane but im going to focus bot or mid first if anything so we can get the dragon for free. if i spam ganking top then there's a good chance the enemy jungler will solo it or they will out number bot and mid and take it by force. I often focus mid or bot until that drag is taken unless if top lane is like free kills within the first few mins (from min 2 - 6)

  4. And the thing that tilts me the most, when Im playing a champ like Udyr and the opponent is playing Zac and my team blames me for not ganking as much as him. Like its not our job to out gank the enemy jungler and If i did i would be so behind it would be stupid. would talk about this point in more detail but just thinking about it tilts me.

macromite1 votes

well said.

l Dárius l2 votes

  1. when you are playing a proactive ganking jungler and are afk farming

  2. when an enemy lane is pushed into your allied tower and its just free kills and you cant stop farming to fucking take them. i dont care who you are playing, they are under tower and free for a reason

  3. when you are getting dived by the enemy jungler and laner(s) and your jungler is sitting at the closest camp with his head up his ass.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

If they stupidly gank mid-lane and feed the opponent double-buffs immediately after finishing their first clear due to sheer stupidity.

I did that last night on Hecarim due to underestimating mid-lane Karma (and expecting her spells to be down since she just finished fighting her lane opponent) and died for it. In retrospect, I should have done Scuttle Crab first to heal, but I thought I saw a good opportunity.

I definitely deserved the blame in that case; while we managed to recover pretty easily and stomped the rest of the game, that made it harder than it should have been.

macromite1 votes

Main question here, did your ally lay down some damage as well or was it just you.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Eh, they were about half health and I was the only one who did damage since my ally backed off.

It could have gone better and it wasn't entirely my fault, but I should have known that I was too low to gank them.

macromite1 votes

I've been in that situation myself, My problem is that it isn't a singular persons fault, yet it often will be treated like one.

Bellows1 votes

Im having a hard time deciding what to do as Rengar, OP. I cant tell if hes farm intensive or early game gank potential. my instinct says hes a bit of both but even after playing him so much, what are my specific power spikes i should gank off of? and when?

macromite1 votes

Unfortunately I'm not a rengar player by trade so i don't know his specific power spikes, But a good rule of thumb is to gank whenever or wherever there is a strict advantage, and to use your judgement. I know he gets a big one at 6, and i think before that he relies on his allies a little. I think you should also try to gank early when you have 4 or 5 stacks of resource.

Dryditch1 votes

It's an old guide, but I think it should still be viable. http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/s6-rengar-jungle-preseason-6-quick-pre-game-guide-ftw-443371

l Dárius l1 votes

When the jungler is playing a champion with good ganks and a lane is pushed out and having trouble.

macromite1 votes

You need to work on your terminology.

l Dárius l1 votes

Oh I forgot half of the post. When the jungler is playing a champion with good ganks and a lane is pushed out and having trouble and you are sitting with your thumb up your ass power farming.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

the answer is "never"

Troy2426211 votes

As a jungler, these are cardinal sins:

Diving at low level like a retard, giving FB doublebuff.

Not taking Smite (Uninstall please)

Not even attempting to control objectives/vision

macromite1 votes

You aren't entirely correct. Smitless jungle has its perks. It's terrible these days especially due to smite items but I could understand certain characters going smiteless.

And jungling is a versatile role with a lot of jobs and a lot of ways to handle itself. you can be a successful jungler without using your trinket, never smiting wolves or chicken, and not taking any objectives. Of course a jungler should do those things, but jungle is a very versatile role.

Also that first thing is counterable. It is a situation based thing that should never be considered a basic rule. Diving low level with double buff can be ridiculous if done well. Hell I've made level 3 dives on bot and have gotten doubles for it, so immediately deciding its an always bad thing is a mistake. also, a note here, the use of the phrase "like a retard" isn't necessary, Everything done "like a retard" is bad. Getting a dragon "like a retard" can lose games just as hard as anything else.

ForFoxSakes1 votes

There is literally no perk that outweighs not having the bonus sustain and exp while having a smite jungle item and able to smite secure objectives.

Lauchmelder1 votes

{quoted} And to my knowledge there are never any other times to get mad at your jungler.

Enemy Anivia has no passive, no flash, no TP to eggnivia out and is hugging MY tower. The jungler doesn't gank.

Ok or not? And I don't mean flame him, just point out that he would get a free kill or assist if he just ganked one time.

ForFoxSakes1 votes

Cant just say free kill. Depends on how pushed out they are, what CC you and the jungler has to secure the kill and what champ the jungler is on and what else the jungler is doing AKA if theyre taking dragon or shoving for turret FB etc.

Ragnarok Alpha1 votes

When every lane thinks that they can keep pushing until they hit the tower with an enemy Shaco Jungle. ^ And then saying in the all chat without asking for ganks or kept pushing and ignoring warnings: " reprot jgl beter jgl wins i ask for gangs but he said afk farm ". I love this GAMEPLAY. [zombie-brand-mindblown]

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