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Is Overgrowth supposed to be bad? 300 minions/monsters only = 112.5 HP + 2.5% MaxHP increase?

CoraloDy··46 votes·15,650 views

Can't you adjust the value for the HP gain a bit? Maybe make it 5 HP for every 5 minions/monsters absorbed instead of 3 HP for every 8 absorbed?

Because right now there's not really any reason to want this Rune because it doesn't help you scale at all, at least Revitalize will give you some decent 10% increased healing whenever you're low HP but Overgrowth won't give you much of any value even if you make it to lategame with near perfect minion absorption and also decided it was a good idea to invest 100% into HP Items.

4000 HP x 2.5% = 100 increased HP 300 Minions/monsters absorbed = 112.5 x 2.5% = 115 increased HP

So even if by some miracle you absorb 300 minions/monsters and get yourself 4000 HP all you'll get for that is a measly 215 increased HP... Does anyone else see an issue with this? Or is Riot going to just ignore this with a cheap cop-out excuse like: "Well it's decent on Sion!"

78 Comments

Saezio32 votes

It's supposed to be bad, just like every tanky rune choice.

Resolve is only to be taken as a secondary tree to make it through tough laning phases, it's not to be taken as a primary tree.

Riot has decided tanks shouldn't be tanky any more

en2que33 votes

Resolve is only to be taken as a secondary tree to abuse Demolish.

FTFY

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

FTFY

HAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAA

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARENT AWARE DEMOLISH IS A NOOB BAIT RUNE? ROFLROFLROFLROFL

How bad can league players be

en2que3 votes

How is it a noob bait? Taking turret plating is pretty much half of the game nowadays.

xDogMeatx2 votes

conditioning is the best rune it increases effective resists for free.

Saezio11 votes

After 10 minutes...

If it was 10 armor and MR converted to 7% after 10 mins it would be an actual good choice for tanks.

As it is now, it is a 0 value rune during lane

ProfDrDeath5 votes

10 MR and Armor at level 1 is hilariously overpowered.

Saezio2 votes

Hm, you are right. Maybe a system like Legend then where you have to farm it. Starts with 3 or 2 and farms up to 10 and is then converted to percentages and lose the flat?

Just feels like crap when you lose the game before the rune has done anything xD. Or make it like boots where each assist or kill cuts arrival time?

TheSingularity11 votes

I mean, I could start with like 30 armour with old runes+ what I got from my old masteries

Not to mention the 80ish armor we lost through item nerfs along with 1450 HP lost

Alzon1 votes

Pantheon Lissandra Pyke Rakan Fiddlesticks ?

Saezio22 votes

A bunch of non-tanks abusing aftershock to be able to burst/chain CC in small windows while the rune is not very valuable to it's actual audience.

You are just proving my point. The resolve tree is a tree for people that want to be tanky for a short amount of time without investing in tank stats. While the actual top and jungle tanks are left with the only choice of going for damage runes because the tanky keystones don't offer meaningful tankiness or synergize with buiding tank

Tahminatrix 13 votes

It used to give 500+ hp late game to tanks, but riot wanted overgrowth to be better for other classes and made it mostly flat hp rather than %

Also with substats being changed to be "chooseable" tanks lost out on the resolve + inspiration combo, now inspiration tree is pretty crap for tanks..and anyone who cant abuse kleptomancy / free watch

It wouldn't be that big of a stretch to say tanks lost atleast 15% of their hp from both of these changes combined....

Ralanr3 votes

Yeah...kinda tired of tanks not really getting their own thing that can’t be abused better by others.

I guess we have grasp...

MattyFisher3 votes

Remove all the % max hp BS they keep giving tanks and make them actually tanky again, then everyone is happy

Ralanr3 votes

Except tanks in top lane because they just lost their ability to trade. That's kinda why they have that in the first place.

MattyFisher2 votes

Tanks used to trade ridiculously well, they have high base damage, the difference is they have long cooldowns so they lose extended trades to bruisers, which they should

Ralanr3 votes

No? Tanks used to stonewall lanes.

PB4UAME2 votes

Stonewall, outsustain, and turn the lane into a farm lane. A concept which doesn't even fucking exist in modern league.

Ralanr2 votes

Outsustain how? The only tanks that have general healing are Maokai and Zac.

And Riot wants to avoid farm lanes.

PopcornBunni2 votes

Other tanks have healing, or some form of similar sustain- TahmKench W, Malphite's shield which passively gives him that effective extra health when he falls back, and uhhhh, yeah that's it.

NepgearDesu2 votes

{quoted}

TahmKench W

... is named "Devour". You're looking for his E, Thick Skin.

Profirix5 votes

That, and the scaling health rune is AWFUL and not worth getting over armor or MR

Flawless Fetus2 votes

Not true. Health is almost always the best option unless your a bad laner.

BigFBear2 votes

[{quoted}](name=BIended Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rfp2UZ9s,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-02-20T16:54:15.895+0000)

Not true. Health is almost always the best option unless your a bad laner.

In almost all circumstances, champions will have more maximum health than armor, thus a single point of armor will give more 'effective health' to a champion than a single point of health. However, if there is a case where max health is below the value of 'armor + 100', the opposite becomes true.

Because of this relationship, theoretically, maximum effective health is attained by ensure that you have exactly 100 more max health than armor, regardless of how much health or armor you actually already have.

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Armor

Tychusfindlay9182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rfp2UZ9s,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-19T20:50:35.196+0000)

It used to give 500+ hp late game to tanks, but riot wanted overgrowth to be better for other classes and made it mostly flat hp rather than %

Also with substats being changed to be "chooseable" tanks lost out on the resolve + inspiration combo, now inspiration tree is pretty crap for tanks..and anyone who cant abuse kleptomancy / free watch

It wouldn't be that big of a stretch to say tanks lost atleast 15% of their hp from both of these changes combined....

it's a massive nerf to juggernauts who many times were able to stack more HP than tanks since they forgo low/no hp items like IBG, frozen, etc.

TheSingularity8 votes

Fun fact for y'all in regards to tank stat crushing

Their items have been nerfed to the ground

Lost 200 when item 3194 replaced item 3102. Gap shrunk to 150. item 3742 lost 175 hp item 1401 item 1413 10% bonus health item 3190 400 HP item 3143 100 HP item 3800 250 HP item 3065 50 HP item 3068 75 HP item 3083 200 HP

Tanks have lost a horrifying 1400 HP. So that's why I can't get 6k hp anymore...

Like, a huge help would be increasing final item costs, but then giving better stats. OG warmogs 1000 HP, 500 randuins/visage/deadmans/sunfire, 600 HP glory

Edit: MR and armour bonus round! armour=20 item 3075 + 30 item 3143 + 5 item 3025 +20 item 3026 +20 removal of ancient golem = 95 armor lost MR=15 item 3102 + 15 item 3065 + 45item 3026 =75 magic resist lost

PopcornBunni7 votes

Short answer: Yes

Long answer: Because runes are a form of hidden power and available to all characters, Riot doesn't want nontank roles getting easy access to tank stats. So tanks have to suffer from having the shittiest runes and the shittiest stats because Lissandra is breaking Aftershock or Kogmaw is abusing Grasp or whatever else happens.

So we get 50-120 adaptive force in runes and a whopping 20 resistances.

LordGeovanni1 votes

You can easily keep non tank roles from getting tank stats by making making tank runes Meaningful % amounts total tank stats. only problem with that is adcs and mages still get shit tons of hp because their base hp are super high and mages base hp are super high while having better hp (hybrid W Damage )items than tanks the also have better for a solo magic resist item build tank tanks or fighters.

PopcornBunni1 votes

Preach it. item 3102 changes are the worst part of 7.4's tank item changes by far.

It's so weird that the changes to item 3742 item 3068 item 3065 were to lower their health and increase their resistances to make them stronger at defending against their specific defense. item 3102 was already a higher MR but lower health defensive item and quite viable for tanks to use to absorb CC when doing their engage or just in general as a safe tool against Teemo blind/mushrooms, Karthus ult, etc.

Profirix6 votes

It really should have more percent health scaling for tanks. I get that they wanted a base health scale for squishies to take as an alternative but it should definitely have a better bonus health scaling factor for health-stacking tanks. Especially since there are so many decent shredding options in the game for HP now.

Popperofski1 votes

They won’t nerf sion so they’re nerfing everything else but sion

The Highest Noon1 votes

It's a rune. It's not even a Keystone. It's not supposed to be ZOMG SO AMAZING it's supposed to be something that helps for a bit in a specific situation and that's it.

And please, don't dis Sion like that. It's AMAZING on him if you consider his W passive and it's HP scaling. Toss on Shield Bash and you're good as good.

CoraloDy18 votes

Gathering Storm is also a Rune that isn't a keystone, both Runes are designed for scaling into lategame but Overgrowth is laughably underpowered in that regard.

And it's not a dis to Sion, it's pointing out the fact that Riot are the kind of lazy good for nothings that will blatantly gut something for everyone else even though only 1 or 2 champs in the game are capable of abusing it.

The Highest Noon1 votes

Hm, true. Still, Overgrowth has it's uses. Mind you, and this is something I only recently became aware of, but it's not just about minions killed but every minion that dies near you. It's actually ok if you're playing a champion that stacks health or scales off max health. I guess Riot just doesn't want it to be broken so squishies take it and suddenly become bruisers.

CoraloDy13 votes

Read. What. I. Put. In. The. Original. Post.

Even if you're in a game where you somehow lasted in a lane long enough to absorb 500 minions/monsters from those dying around you you'd only get 192 health from it, and that's with the 2.5% increase.

The rune is shit, the math is right there proving it's shit, stop typing mundane garbage ignoring the facts and LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED TO YOU.

AlienPrimate1 votes

This is assuming that you built 0 health in your items and that you don't get health for free from Cho or Sion. If you have 5k health without the rune it would be 318 bonus health. I agree that it isn't very good, but when talking about evidence you need to present the full evidence and not bend it to fit the point you are trying to make.

CoraloDy4 votes

...

Did you not see the 4000 HP = 100 example I put >>>IN THE ORIGINAL POST?<<< And besides, if you're stupid enough to build full HP in this game then you clearly aren't trying to actually play, when everyone is doing 1000+ damage "combos" with just their three basic abilities you're not going to get anywhere with just HP unless you're fully loaded on resistances too which don't do jack shit thanks to item 3071 item 3135 item 3036 item 3033 existing.

Bjørnetjenesten2 votes

It wouldn't if they just upped the 2.5% to say 5%... it would only scale well on tanks stacking hp, not on squishies who don't buy other HP items.

The Highest Noon2 votes

{quoted}

It wouldn't if they just upped the 2.5% to say 5%... it would only scale well on tanks stacking hp, not on squishies who don't buy other HP items.

Depends on what Riot wants out of it. Rune balance seems difficult as is. I could see an Overgrowth buff coming, tbh.

LordGeovanni2 votes

But then its broken on mages who have equal or more hp on their top damage items than tanks have on their items that arent warmogs and frozen mallet. Assassins already struggle to kill them between their 3.7k hp and zhonyas / banshees veil.

Bjørnetjenesten2 votes

Nah it wouldn't be op, it would be reasonably good on mages giving maybe 100-200 bonus hp late, tihis is not much statwise compared to gathering storm.

Also which mage gets 3700 hp with a normal build?

LordGeovanni1 votes

you do realize that most mages have a bigger base hp than tanks and their item 3165 item 3151 has near as much hp as tank items like item 3001 item 3194 while being top level ap items and item 3027 with better hp than most tank items by a much larger amount while also being a top ap item and only item 3068 is the closest to be in the ballpark for comparison while providing much less in its other stat and not having a 3rd stat to also bolster the value of the item that is also much more than what other classes can get on a hybrid stat item.

Bjørnetjenesten1 votes

Lets just say i build item 3027 item 3165 item 3116 item 3151 item 3020 _(Which is a really shitty build on most mages) _

This gives me 1400 bonus hp, 335 AP, **no bonus resistances **and only 1 slot left, either for item 3089, item 3135 or defensive items like item 3157 or item 3102. Also this mean that i need to skip my mana item, leaving me extremely low on mana and regen.

Lets look at mage HP at 18 from:

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_champions/Statistics_at_level_18

According to this, the highest hp mage is Ryze with 2237 hp and the 12th highest hp. Building all 4 of those hp items will give him 3637 hp at 18. You are almost correct here about hte 3.7K, BUT this build will leave him:

  • extremely low in resistances
  • extremely low in AP (since item 3003 is mandatory on ryze, giving him 450 ap max with runes)
  • 0 % penetration to kill tanks and so on
  • no room for item 3157.

The next mage is Karma at 29th spot with 2149 hp giving her 3549 hp at 18. This might work for her, but again she will be low on mana fast and nobody really play her mid anymore.

After this point mages are distributed evenly over the entire championpool, with the lowest being Zyra at 1847 hp at lvl 18, leaving her with 3247 hp with those items. And she will have the same problems as everyone else.

Also notice how Galio Alistar Sejuani TahmKench Zac Ornn and Maokai have more base hp than #2 mage Karma.

So your statements that mages hit 3700 hp and that tanks have lower base hp than mages is completely false

And my point being that most mages never comes close to hitting 3700 hp and if they do, they will be left extremely low on several mage stats making them suboptimal purchases. This means that buffing the % on overgrowth, will not make mages "broken" or even close to that point."

LordGeovanni1 votes

Like grasp of the undying 5 hp per proc 20 procs in 35 minutes unless you ranged in which case you likely have 60 procs in 35 mins.

Yboat1 votes

Grasp also does damage and heals you based off your health. Over growth got nerfed too the point where it's only really taken if the other 2 on that line are of no use too you

LordGeovanni2 votes

It does do that but the amount it does either is So miniscule its doesnt matter much its only really good because its the only tank rune that isnt off line for a minute after use and tanks want extended fights.

goodiesohhi2 votes

{quoted}

Like grasp of the undying 5 hp per proc 20 procs in 35 minutes unless you ranged in which case you likely have 60 procs in 35 mins.

Gangplank would like to have a word with you.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Maybe balance him then and not use 1 champion to keep runes shit for 65

Samsunger1 votes

Overgrowth isn't a keystone so why would it be strong, thats like saying Triumph should give you back half your health after a kill, no. Its meant to give you a little bit of an extra advantage in the late game. And for those complaining about how much HP tanks have lost, I hope tanks get nerfed to the ground one day and completely gutted. Have to say, most disgusting class in league right now

LordGeovanni4 votes

Triumph is super strong where it is so are Legend alacrity and blood line. ravenous hunter and ingenious hunter are also super strong while tanks dont have any strong secondary runes or key stones. THeir keystones are decent but weak as hell because they have super long cooldowns. if its a problem that non tanks would abuse it just nerf the base values and increase the %

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