Udyr's ULT an evaluation

SnorLaxativ3s·2/5/2020, 10:05:49 PM·1 votes·1,221 views

Hello everyone, This is my post to the forums so I would like to start with how exciting it is to be part of a game community that is very engaging. So thank you for your time and reading my post.

Okay so the main subject here for discussion is if Udyr's ult needs to be reworked to any extent? And before addressing this I do want to add that I really, really enjoy Udyr's playstyle and that through the many games I have played with him that I just really want to be able to use his full kit.

In game this is what his ult Phoenix Stance does:

 **Udyr unleashes pulsing waves of fire around himself for 4 seconds, dealing 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 (+25% of ability power) magic damage each 
 second to all nearby enemies for the duration.

 While in Phoenix Stance, Udyr's first and every third basic attack after that send out a cone of flame in front of him that deals 50 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230 / 
 275 (+60% of ability power) magic damage.

 The mana cost of this ability decreases with Udyr's level, down to 28 mana at level 18.**

Now at face value there are things I really like about the ult. First is that you are getting a consistent amount of aoe damage over those 4 seconds. Second it's persistent effect adds some great value to removing camps like raptors/wolves/etc...(Which is perfect given he is a jungler)

But there is an issue that I feel contributes a lot into why nearly all builds of Udyr do not invest a single point into his ult, and for those that do they have the first contributions into it way into the endgame(level 16+). Which isn't great considering that this is suppose to be his ultimate. Intended to be the most devastating attack he has but you are only rarely using it, thus there being no excitement to it. Leaving him with 3 abilities rather than 4.

So where does the issue I believe start: The disconnect between scaling of the Phoenix Stance and what Udyr's build actually looks like.

Udyr's build is that of a burst fighter/brawler, we see this primarily through his Tiger Stance (Which increases attack speed and smacks the heck out of an opponent), the Bear Stance(which stuns and lets you close the gap between you and an enemy champion), and his passive Monkey's Agility(attack speed buff when using different abilities rapidly). So the goal at least of most of his kit is to deal a lot of damage quickly.(Turtle Stance is the exception but it gives absolutely amazing sustain and though it also shares one issue with Phoenix Stance it by no means is unusable)

As noted he is a fighter who deals almost all of his damage from his basic attacks. This is what most of his kit is built for.

So we can conclude from this background knowledge that Udyr when being built is always focused on AD.

Thus my claim of a disconnect with the Phoenix Stance is that for it to scale by AP rather than AD leaves it at a point where the damage output is just too weak to use when compared to Tiger Stance which does scale with AD.(This also is the minor disconnect with Turtle Stance because it too scales off of AP.)

And that leads into my final point on why I think a slight change is needed(changing AP scaling to AD): Phoenix Stance does significantly less damage to target(s) than Tiger Stance

So the main counter argument for this which I am addressing right away is that as an AOE Phoenix Stance should do less damage than the tiger stance. But this simply in this game is false.

  1. Because you can build an item making your basic attacks become an AOE anyway making the Phoenix Stance AOE claim nonunique
  2. It is an ULT, it should feel like a usable ULT

Please don't take this point as a call that Tiger Stance is too strong, it isn't and Udyr already is/was barely in competitive play for season 10/9 and a nerf for whatever reason would be hilarious.

But Tiger Stance is significantly stronger because all Udyr builds focus on AD(Which tiger stance stacks off of) and it grants faster attack speed that stacks with monkey's agility. Whereas Phoenix Stance does not have the attack speed boost, and it more importantly does not have AD scaling. It is a simple point but true.

In conclusion because Udyr's Phoenix Stance is technically his ULT but behaves at no tier of power an ULT should, it has left the feeling of Udyr only having three abilites, limiting routes you can build him and making him generally much weaker in the META. Potential solutions for this would be changing the scaling to AD from AP and adding a burning damage effect for x seconds to targets hit while in Phoenix Stance.

I am really invested in this champion and would love to hear your view points on this topic. And again thank you for reading my post! (Shoutout to my inspiration for playing Udyr )

10 Comments

CaptainAntiHeroz2/5/2020, 10:10:38 PM1 votes

udyr has no ult, he has four basic abilities, hes like one happens if you take the smooth flowing combat out of the arkham games

Ehhhh2/5/2020, 10:13:42 PM1 votes

Yeah, its not an ult though. Same with nidalee, jayce and elise

Mavëríck2/5/2020, 10:42:45 PM1 votes

If Riot can make Aphelios have like 6 abilities cycled on one button then why can't they start by making Spirit Guard his base skin, and then putting the stance dancing on one button and allow him to have 3 other abilities that empower those stances?

KlydeFrog2/6/2020, 5:26:06 AM1 votes

udyr is fine build him ap tank and you win however perhaps they need to raise the ap ratio more for phoenix