So who thought Garen was a good idea?

theMockery··2 votes·2,052 views

(skip to 26:20 in the video I linked, or just watch the entire thing and cringe as this Garen just sh*ts on this Riven)

Garen is the easiest, most skilless, most retardedly overloaded champion in the entire damn game, who's idea was it to make him manaless, have a speed up, a silence, an AoE spin, a shield, a passive that regenerates his health,an ultimate that basically means you can't be at half health near him so good luck farming, good luck winning trades because even if you are out damaging him, as soon as you have half health it's over, you lost, it doesn't matter, because he pressed R and clicked on you.

And even if you somehow escape with your life, it still doesn't matter because he has a passive that will just regen him back to full hp in a matter of a minute. Garen is disgustingly overloaded, who in the entire game has as much utility as him, while still being a massive tank and doing a f*cking stupid amount of damage.

The only TRUE counter is probably Trynd (maybe kennen/gnar), and that's only if you have good connection, if you're on anything higher than 100ms you're screwed because Garens ult hardly has a wind up at all.

And I know what half of you will say, "You can easily kite him" "Just counter pick him" "He has no mobility". Well, there's the thing, this doesn't make a difference when you're laning against him and not playing one of the three champions mentioned above you will get completely decimated, even if you farm under turret you are at an extreme disadvantage, you will lose cs while he gains a lead on you with cs and exp, and by the time it's late game, if you haven't managed to beat him, you will be completely useless, down on cs and levels there will be no chance of a come back, leading your team into a 4v5.

Why does he do so much damage, but not have to build a single damage item? Why does he have health regen, a speed up, a silence, an AoE ability, an ultimate that can pretty much 1 shot you if you're the villain (without building damage items)? Why does he have all this items at his disposal, but still be so disgustingly easy and brain dead to play?

If I could have the chance to do so, all I would do is remove his silence, that's all.

Edit: I am 1000% aware that rivens #1 counter is garen, I am completely aware that the video isn't 1000% relevant, I get it.

29 Comments

ProfDrDeath11 votes

https://robinadr.com/uploads/2010/03/30027.jpg

Delicious, delicious stuff, coming from a Riven main.

The Sword Saint1 votes

Pathetic. 9 upvotes from random riven haters who can't even take 10 seconds to look the op up and see that not only is he not a Riven main, but doesn't seem to have played riven in any recent history at all.

But hey, don't let facts slow down your hatred train.

Stars Shaper7 votes

You mean that Riven got eaten by her counter? God forbids that!!

RISE Shlack1234 votes

Anklespankin says, over and over and over and over again, that he's terrible at Riven. He messes up the combos. He doesn't know how to play her. So of course he's a prime candidate for getting beaten by Riven's top counter.

Salty salt is salty.

ZLbSwAR23I2 votes

{quoted}

(skip to 26:20 in the video I linked, or just watch the entire thing and cringe as this Garen just sh*ts on this Riven)

Garen is the easiest, most skilless, most retardedly overloaded champion in the entire damn game, who's idea was it to make him manaless, have a speed up, a silence, an AoE spin, a shield, a passive that regenerates his health,an ultimate that basically means you can't be at half health near him so good luck farming, good luck winning trades because even if you are out damaging him, as soon as you have half health it's over, you lost, it doesn't matter, because he pressed R and clicked on you.

And even if you somehow escape with your life, it still doesn't matter because he has a passive that will just regen him back to full hp in a matter of a minute. Garen is disgustingly overloaded, who in the entire game has as much utility as him, while still being a massive tank and doing a f*cking stupid amount of damage.

The only TRUE counter is probably Trynd (maybe kennen/gnar), and that's only if you have good connection, if you're on anything higher than 100ms you're screwed because Garens ult hardly has a wind up at all.

And I know what half of you will say, "You can easily kite him" "Just counter pick him" "He has no mobility". Well, there's the thing, this doesn't make a difference when you're laning against him and not playing one of the three champions mentioned above you will get completely decimated, even if you farm under turret you are at an extreme disadvantage, you will lose cs while he gains a lead on you with cs and exp, and by the time it's late game, if you haven't managed to beat him, you will be completely useless, down on cs and levels there will be no chance of a come back, leading your team into a 4v5.

Why does he do so much damage, but not have to build a single damage item? Why does he have health regen, a speed up, a silence, an AoE ability, an ultimate that can pretty much 1 shot you if you're the villain (without building damage items)? Why does he have all this items at his disposal, but still be so disgustingly easy and brain dead to play?

If I could have the chance to do so, all I would do is remove his silence, that's all.

I feel bad for you.

You've gone to a lot of effort to put forward your view, and I respect that.

However, I'm going to pull the "you're in silver" card and tell you that at this level you clearly don't understand the game well enough (however much you think you do) and that you need to learn how to play against him better.

There's a reason Garen isn't picked in high elo.

Nik Nikerson1 votes

I take offense to that. I'm silver and completely understand why he doesn't see play in high elo.

Catastrop2 votes

He in so sense "shits on Riven." He literally had like 200 hp and was the Villain, what did you expect from an Execute Ultimate?

Horse Grenades2 votes

I will never experience joy greater than watching a Riven die.

Quepha2 votes

The Riven who doesn't play Riven against her counter and still does pretty good in lane. The assassin champion designed to target squishies versus a juggernaut designed to stand in the way of assassins and take them down. The Riven at 20% health who gets killed by Garen after Riven already successfully assassinated a carry. The ONE THOUSAND TRUE DAMAGE GAREN ULT that only did 1000 damage because Riven had ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY SEVEN HEALTH

You realize that, right? Garen's ult scales with missing hp so it can't deal that much damage unless the opponent has way less than that much health and most of the damage is wasted. Riven's shield is the only reason that 60% of garen's ult was wasted damage instead of more than 80% of it.

If anything, this game shows that Riven is still too OP against match ups that should be hard for her and doesn't really have the high skill floor that people claim is required to play her.

ciderspace1 votes

Just wait until you play against Poppy . She can literally one shot Riven if she tries any dash skills after getting stunned. Beautiful. Now go live down to your stereotype and AFK.

theMockery1 votes

I don't play riven lol.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

I don't play riven lol.

youre also not watching your own videos before you post them.

theMockery1 votes

that's not my video

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

that's not my video

yea, i know youre not the author of the video, thanks. i got that. but you posted it as evidence without really watching it first. you just saw omg 1000 true damage, and posted it before checking if thats even right.

death recap being derpy is nothing new. it sometimes tells you that you got killed by summoner heal or similar crap.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

I don't care. Riven got rekt. That's all I wanna know.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

that riven had 200 hp when the garen ulted, dumbass op. its was actually 177 to be exact. the exact moment the ult drops. she has almost 2 bars of hp.

so his ult just did 180 damage. how much does the auto attack of an ad carry do at that point of the game?

if youre gonna post a video as proof for the balance of a champion, you might actually want to watch it next time.

meanwhile the riven is running around in teamfights spamming q and randomly getting fed off kills hes picking up. and even with using flash, his opponents cant get away from him in chases, because hes too mobile.

every time he used tp to drop somewhere into a skirmish and killed someone random guy who was low after a fight by chasing him down. or picked up a random kill with his ult.

youre trying to tell me that takes a lot of mechanical skill?

Xenomancers1 votes

Realistically Garen doesn't even counter riven. Garen is particularly strong at lvls 1-3 where he needs to get an HP advantage to really bully the lane. Vs Riven this is really only possible at lvl 1 before riven gets her shield AND she can still all in garen at lvl 1. So I consider this to be a skill match-up favoring riven as she is much more capable at getting a lead at the early levels. Also - Garens ult is incredibly weak - it does between 200-300 damage at lvl 6 for an ultimate - Rivens ult has more range does more damage is AOE and gives her stat boosts over its duration. I find this hilarious that any riven would complain about Garens ult.

Akenero1 votes

Okay, first thing first, fuck garen's true damage ult, we can ALL agree on that, right? Secondly, his silence does shut down a TON of champions(namely all casters) Thirdly, he has natural scaling(will explain later but it's an amazing part of the game) But he has counterplay

Okay, the ult's counterplay is nullified by it's true damage execute IF you are the villian. On top of this, villians take a flat 1% of their max hp as true damage, which is on top of the physical damage he deals already. And as such, building pure tank vs garen wont work if you kill anyone besides garen, this creates a VERY passive laning phase that is a farm-fest, as trading is difficult because...

His q's got amazing power built into it, letting him disregard slows(read:Nasus) and gain increased damage+a silence, which have historically no counterplay. The caveat of this move however, is that it is his only means of engaging opponents; it's only a movespeed buff, so it has massive counterplay. But again, shuts down certain champions, nasus, trundle, and mini gnar coming to mind. This doesn't affect champions without slows, so it's not op, as you can use knockbacks like jayce e, alistar headbutt, and vayne e to get him off you. The silence deals with these champions(except ali) Silences completely negate any abilities your opponent has until its duration ends, bar a few abilities, tryndamere, heimerdinger, karma, olaf, and alistar ultimates, and oranges. All other abilities are stopped, and must fight garen using autoattacks, which is difficult due to...

His natural scaling is an amazing thing, and hidden in it's power, what is it though? Natural scalings are those which are isolated from the events of the game, and contain either a tool which scale off opponents, such as veigar ult, irelia passive, fiora's passive, vayne w, and so forth. These types allow counterplay, veigar ult is countered by magic pen or attack damage(magic pen artificially increases ap); irelia is unable to as easily deal with one cc packed champ as 5 of them; fiora's is based on positioning, vayne's is stopped by attack speed slows or low hp, high armor. There are also time-based natural scalings, which have no prerequisites which bar efficiency. Examples being Cassiopeia passive, zilean passive, and a few more(long post, and want to shorten a bit) These abilities often require long time frames to become noticeable, Cassiopeia's being a free hat in bonus ap, zilean's being a bank of xp, increasing over time. These are a time-based counter, win fast, they won't be an issue, otherwise...bad things

And then there are interactive natural scalings, which are ENTIRELY based off of your performance in the game, and often have entire champions balanced around this. Examples being: veigar q, nasus q, thresh passive, bard passive, sion w passive, and garen w passive. All of these require massive amounts of farm until powerful, except for thresh, who only needs souls, but has the lowest scaling. Garen's w increases his armor and magic resist for every minion he kills, up to 30 armor. This is massive when looking at his passive's health-based scaling, and the effective hp he gains from each individual minion kill is immense. Now for the last part

His counterplay is seen in high-elo games, where kills are MUCH less common, meaning he could possibly never have a villian, and this is his problem in lower elo, players don't attempt to save theirselves by doing everything in their power, and kills are abundant. Conversely, his power is lowered in high elo due to the skill these players have, they will keep garen off their backline with occasional cc, while killing the opponents or forcing them to flee.

Its the same reason kat isnt competitive, she loses efficiency at high elos

Xenomancers1 votes

Humm...Garens ult is magic damage and does significantly less damage than darius actual true damage ult - which also resets. Yeah...fck garens ult.

No one is going to disagree - garen is a strong early game lane bully with great natural sustain and high bases. Hes like the easy mode of Renekton but at the cost of not having hard CC and some mobility. Still falls off late game though. Garen loses strength higher up the ladder for the same reason that udyr and xin do. These champions are very strong 1v1 but against teams that work together the can ususally be kited and destroyed with relative ease.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

the issue here is that death recap is retarded and showed his ult dealing more than 1k true damage, when he ulted the riven on not even 200 hp.

this is due to the missing hp scaling of the ult, and death recap not accounting for overkill.

in reality there is a sweet spot for garens ult, where the enemy has exactly enough hp missing for the execute to finish him off. against non villains this is usually somewhere between 500 and 600 hp left after mr. with a hexdrinker or more than usual mr itemization, garens ult wont even break 300 damage.

against villains this sweet spot is usually around 800 health.

this is the maximum damage a garen ult will ever deal. everything else will either be irrelevant or not enough.

SMTY1 votes

To all the pro's saying that garen is easily counterplayed and whatnot, could you possibly share your knowledge with us noobs so we can learn to beat this sack of shit?summoner 14

BastionKross1 votes

Counterpicking Garen is pretty easy, as that's the main reason pros won't touch him most of the time. Just about any ranged champion will mess him up in lane. All you need to do is poke him and be ready to back up or cc him if his Q isn't on CD.

That's it. Consistent poke will keep his passive, and by extension his sustain, disabled. Garen also has nothing is his kit to get on top of you with outside of his MS boost, so as long as you keep your distance and be ready to apply any cc after he uses Q, he literally can't touch you.

However, if you pick a melee into him that isn't as big of a lane bully as he is, then he's going to out trade you, zone you, and leave you trying to cs under tower.

Teamfighting is much the same way. If Garen gets cc'd and peeled there's not a lot he can do about that, especially after the tenacity nerf. If you're a villain, staying away from Garen is your top priority. Garen doesn't care how fed you are; if you're a villain his %HP true damage and true damage execute will destroy you. That's what his kit is based around after all, being an anti-carry.

Miraweave1 votes

Says the Riven player.

Kaioko1 votes

Garen is Riven's biggest counter. I would hope he completely destroys her.

RogueWill1 votes

Riven had 137hp when garen ult her so the 1k damage was pretty much overkill since 900 out of it went to waste

IcyPepper1 votes

You know, using Riven as an example probably wasn't the best idea ever.

She gets a lot, if not more similar complaints that Garen does.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

Garen is bullshit....I've been saying that since I came here.

Sasogwa1 votes

Wtf.. It's an even lane, if not slightly in your favour because you just E his Q, and then outtrade him and t 26:20 you don't even fight Garen, you're on the backline and Garen isn't even dealing damage to you, except his ultimate when you're the villain ! Seeing the video, it would be even for buffing Garen and nerfing Riven, seeing how "not really a counter" that is if Riven knows how to play.

More from Gameplay