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Nidalee 5.24 (PBE)

NudistMojo··4 votes·1,722 views

So I am glad to see that Riot is now (after 3 months of bottom 5 win rates) recognizing that the Nidalee nerfs left her useless, but I don't think that 25 dmg increase at levels on her pounce is the right answer.

I suppose this could be beneficial depending on which role they are trying to promote for her (i.e. jungle over top ad bruiser or god forbid ap mid).

But the truth of the matter (at least in my opinion a a fare number of others that I have read/heard on boards/youtube), lack of damage is only one of her problems and not even really the top. TBH it's how clunky, slow, and irregular her kit feels after the nuke nerfs. For example, trying to hit a spear in lane with her is like trying to hit a humming bird with a Nerf gun (no pun intended), sure it can be done say if the humming bird is to busy feeding or has a neurological disease, but its nothing near reliable compared to any other skill shot in the game. (Maybe Nami bubble or Anivia Q but both of those can go over/through minions and hit multiple targets).

I would gladly pass up on increased dmg if it meant getting back some of the fluidity of her old kit and reliably being able to land spears.

I don't know maybe I'm being unreasonable and should just give up in trying to love this champ. I've been waiting 3 months for a buff/minor rework to her though and this was not what I was hoping for at all. Even if it does make her a power house again, she just won't play like old nidalee until her Q is reworked in my opinion and that's what I loved about her. The satisfaction of landing spears and going all in for a kill was nice, but I actually really like when they changed the projectile width to be smaller. I liked making it more difficult to hit and gave it decent counterplay, which only made it that much more rewarding. Before they were semi-difficult to land, but if you put in the effort and had the right matchup, both in skill and champ it worked great. Somehow picking Nidalee and hoping that my opponent has the reflexes of a mummified tortoise doesn't seem like a wise decision.

Do you agree? Disagree? Let me know. Also let me know which role you preferred to play her in assuming you played her.

14 Comments

Stellafreyja4 votes

They really need to revert the cast time nerf on her spear. Just that should help her greatly. Also, they need to do something about her traps. They were entirely useless except for the jungle since it triggers her passive, rooting them. Making her traps like Cait's (the ammo system not the rooting) would also be super helpful.

NudistMojo1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace of Eden,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r5mV6nnE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-24T21:00:37.974+0000)

They really need to revert the cast time nerf on her spear. Just that should help her greatly. Also, they need to do something about her traps. They were entirely useless except for the jungle since it triggers her passive, rooting them. Making her traps like Cait's (the ammo system not the rooting) would also be super helpful.

I can't agree more about the cast time. I never really used the traps for much other than to protect against ganks as I didn't play her much jungle so that never bothered me. But she definitely needs something different from what is currently on PBE.

Valexfor3 votes

Nidalee's spear can't be allowed to be easy to land, it's just unhealthy, they do too much damage. And since you can spam them with little to no danger of going oom, you would pretty much win against anything with no access to mobility, and that's a big no, since every skill shot should be possible to dodge. I never played her -well, twice in aram, no rerolls left- and still did pretty good -talking about season 3- so if I could do good with her, a really good nida would be actually unbearable, that said, she probably does need some more love than just a bit more damage on pounce.

DJ Di04 votes

{quoted}

Nidalee's spear can't be allowed to be easy to land, it's just unhealthy, they do too much damage.

They thing is they've nerfed both her cast time /and/ damage. It should have been one or the other.

Valexfor1 votes

I would give the damage back since now they can be dodged most of the times, if you are good and land one max range, you deserve the damage. But I still wouldn't buf the cast time even with nerfed damage, they shouln't be easy to land, since the damage is still quite high.

NudistMojo1 votes

{quoted}

I would give the damage back since now they can be dodged most of the times, if you are good and land one max range, you deserve the damage. But I still wouldn't buf the cast time even with nerfed damage, they shouln't be easy to land, since the damage is still quite high.

I honestly have to disagree for 2 main reasons.

  1. Riot consistently says they want the transformation and jump part of her kit to be heavily relied on. If I can;t mark someone with my passive, the only time i'm going into cougar form is for mobility.

  2. The spears pre cast time nerf were still not guaranteed to land at all. Yes some champs (specifically low mobility ones) were easier to land on, but blitz pull is even more ridiculous in my opinion in terms of speed and cast time and the counter play is the exact same with him. In higher level play, proper positioning made it extremely difficult to land spears which is why you hardly saw lane nidalee vs jg nidalee where she could throw them from the fog of war.

I would much rather them nerf range and bring back cast time.

Also, there is just such a long pause after hitting Q that it doesn't feel like im playing nidalee. IMO she should have more commands per second as an assassin which cant happen if you are sitting around waiting for the spear for ever. Either way doubling the cast time and nerfing the dmg on the same patch on the same ability should have never gone through in the first place.

Valexfor1 votes

Like I said, they were far too easy, not like a pont and click, but as easy as blit'z grab... I admit she could use some love, but making her spear that toxic again is not the solution, I mean, even I could land them and I mostly play tanks... and btw from fog of war/unwarded bushes they are still pretty easy to land, so I would rather get damage back, than make them easier, she's supposed to throw one accurate shot, not 10000 random ones and then engage on the first that lands, quality over quantity.

NudistMojo1 votes

{quoted}

Like I said, they were far too easy, not like a pont and click, but as easy as blit'z grab... I admit she could use some love, but making her spear that toxic again is not the solution, I mean, even I could land them and I mostly play tanks... and btw from fog of war/unwarded bushes they are still pretty easy to land, so I would rather get damage back, than make them easier, she's supposed to throw one accurate shot, not 10000 random ones and then engage on the first that lands, quality over quantity.

Fare enough. I happen to dislike jungle in general so obviously I am biased about hitting spears. Ultimately I still think it destroys the smoothness of her which is what I liked best about her kit. I haven't played any other champions that had that fluidity.

As for the quality over quantity, what do you think about my mana ideas i proposed in the other comment? (either more mana per spear or a mana system similar to either kog's or kassadin's ults)

Valexfor2 votes

The stacking mana is actually pretty good, since she does need mana to do her whole all-in and it would actually allow her to still do well with low mana if you play her well, just raising the cost per spear is good too but she might get punished too much for throwing one with low mana.

NudistMojo1 votes

{quoted}

Nidalee's spear can't be allowed to be easy to land, it's just unhealthy, they do too much damage. And since you can spam them with little to no danger of going oom, you would pretty much win against anything with no access to mobility, and that's a big no, since every skill shot should be possible to dodge. I never played her -well, twice in aram, no rerolls left- and still did pretty good -talking about season 3- so if I could do good with her, a really good nida would be actually unbearable, that said, she probably does need some more love than just a bit more damage on pounce.

Personally, her spear from season 3 can not even be compared to current spear other than to say how different they are. Playing her then and play her now are not the same.

I DO AGREE HOWEVER, that they did too much dmg before the nerfs and were to easy to land. Now they do shit and are hard to land to proc her passive which is where most of her burst comes from. So they made her passive harder to proc so you can't do dmg with it AND they took dmg away from the spear anyway so you do less dmg in a full combo with the passive proced.

I do not want her to be as strong as she was because to be honest that's why Rito have kept her dumpster tear for SO long (it was toxic to the community so riot solved it by making her useless until people forgot). However, I don;t want her to be viable at least.

Thanks for the comment. :)

Valexfor2 votes

I also would like if all champs were viable AND balanced (yes, even you Yasuo), so even though I hate nida (just a bit of cdr and she become a damn machinegun) she should be viable and enjoyable.

SaltyKracka2 votes

She's bad? Good.

The game is better off without her.

NudistMojo1 votes

{quoted}

She's bad? Good.

The game is better off without her.

I appreciate your point of view, but as this is a discussion, could you elaborate on why you feel this way? Play style? Oppressive? Annoying?

Also if you notice, Riot is currently buffing her to make her good. This is a discussion trying to make sure these buffs don't make her too good. Rather they are to make sure she is balanced or neutral.

I don't want super OP nidalee back because then the community hates her and Riot nuke nerfs her again and leaves her that way for 3 months, buffs her again and repeat.

NudistMojo1 votes

Ideally, I think it would be best to return the cast time back to how it was and either do one of 2 things to promote more balanced play from her:

  1. Dial back damage on the spears (meh)

or

  1. Make it more costly for her to miss spears/ force her to stop spamming them
    • I think this can be done in 1 of 2 ways: *increase the mana cost per spear so she simply can't throw as many or *make them on a mana system similar to kog'maw's and kassadin's ults wherein the more they are spammed the more mana they will cost (obviously this will have to be a longer reset cool down than either of the aforementioned ults but its the same concept)

Thoughts? Problems?

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