Zoe is Anti-fun

Rey Yan·Jan 21, 2018·103 votes·5,685 views

Every game I play against is the same. It's just anti fun to deal with Zoe. I will be dodging any game with her now.

Your supposed to be able to counter her with range, but she just doesn't care once she hits 6. Even before that, she has one of the most annoying CC's. Sure, its a skill shot, but no other skill shot leaves a pool on the ground that does the same thing if she hit you with the sleep. While it's unique, its more frustrating for the enemy team. I have no issue with any of her other skills, but Zoe is just anti fun. Flame me if you will. :shrug:

184 Comments

SweedishGunnerJan 22, 201838 votes

Anyone watching the GGS vs C9 game right now? Zoe got through and watching her makes me sick.

Jinx HunterJan 22, 201810 votes

{quoted}

Anyone watching the GGS vs C9 game right now? Zoe got through and watching her makes me sick.

Learn to dodge a skillshot

Dope SoloJan 22, 201850 votes

corrected - Learn to dodge an ult-damage skillshot every handful of seconds.

Jinx HunterJan 22, 20186 votes

{quoted}

corrected - Learn to dodge an ult-damage skillshot every handful of seconds.

You would die all the same if you got hit by any other combo skill shot. If your getting by a max Rang Q of Zoe's and you aren't asleep. Then you just suck man. Syndra can do it, Lux can do it, LB can do it (slow, but all the same). Only difference is Zoe has to hit you with an obviously telegraphed skill shot that is beyond easy to predict even if its fast. A Lux Q + Ult will do the same to you as a Zoe Q. Also considering Zoe Only has two real ways to damage you meaningful; Q and passive. Then she SHOULD DO THAT MUCH WITH HER Q. You don't want to get chunked by Q? Then Git Gud. Nothing else I can tell you.

BeatzBoyFTWJan 22, 201838 votes

One thing: Try to make arguments based on having actual experiences instead of running with your mouth.

Jinx HunterJan 22, 20183 votes

{quoted}

One thing: Try to make arguments based on having actual experiences instead of running with your mouth.

I actually do have experience. Been playing this since season 2, and have played against Zoe quiet a few times as a mid, Also played against her as a marksmen from bot lane. If your dying to Zoe, then you need to step up you mouse clicks and learn to dodge. That simple. Its little different then a blitz Q. Dodge the skill shot. Its not hard.

BeatzBoyFTWJan 22, 201835 votes

If she's that simple to beat, she wouldn't be such a high pick/ban champion in recent competitve games in the first place. Plus, why are you hiding behind a level 11 account?

LárxeneJan 22, 20181 votes

How bad do you actually have to be to get hit by Zoe's Q when you're not asleep? It's a very small and highly telegraphed projectile. You can have a ping spike of 1000 and still dodge it with no issue.

Here's a tip for the low elo struggling against her:

Don't stand in your minion wave. She'll have to choose between using Q on creeps for waveclear or using it to harass, and the former will happen more often.

AmocJan 22, 20186 votes

It's by far one of the harder projectiles to dodge. If all you were worrying about was the projectile out of her hands, then you're right, but standard dodge and bait mechanics don't work against her. The geometry of her Q (the redirect) completely changes how you move in lane and her passive adds a lot of damage that makes trading even harder. There are champions that shut her down hard but for your traditional mage character she's a uniquely frustrating champion to play against.

LuxannaVeritasJan 22, 20184 votes

Let me play dumb here for a little bit and ask what part of the above comment you disagree with.

I want to hear your explanation for why the comment is wrong; I don't necessarily disagree with you but I just want you to elaborate.

From what I can gather from the post above, the commenter is saying that Zoe is just like any other burst mage in which she's supposed to be able to unload her damage once she lands a skill shot with CC. He's also saying that since her Q and passive are her only good damage spells, it's OK for her Q to do so much damage.

I like playing Zoe, but I do admit that she has her flaws. One of them is illustrated in this guy's argument, but I want you to explain it. I want to see if you're actually making arguments, or if you are the one running your mouth.

Andrey0345Jan 22, 20189 votes

A Lux Q + Ult will do the same to you as a Zoe Q.

So it's fine for a champ have same dmg with basic ability + ULT, as other champ with just basic ability, with a very low cd?

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 22, 20183 votes

That's not true though?

Zoe needs to use her ult to extend her Q's range or the damage is mediocre.

Hate her all you want but that's a truth about the champion.

DeadUnbornJan 22, 20184 votes

her ult is on a very low cd though

Z3SleeperJan 22, 201810 votes

corrected - Learn to dodge an ult-damage skillshot that creates an AoE on impact and travels faster than Riot can release Lux and Ahri skins.

Also try it while CC'd.

ThilmerJan 22, 20183 votes

{quoted}

corrected - Learn to dodge an ult-damage skillshot every handful of seconds.

Is like if Veigar could use his ulti every 4 seconds, but also with a huge range.

LordGeovanniJan 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jinx Hunter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qVqEMLEg,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-01-22T03:17:43.651+0000)

Learn to dodge a skillshot

not too hard considering thats how you gonna spend every second of your time fighting her but even then its only a matter of time until she lands 1 of them and kills you which seems like healthy interactive gameplay there

Ariel the CruelJan 22, 20189 votes

Riot Considered my Q borderline (but not quite) brokenly OP. <Cracks knuckles> Watch this...

~ Elsewhere: ~ Nidalee Has anyone seen my spear?

Jinx HunterJan 22, 201820 votes

Least you can dodge all of Zoe's stuff. Unlike Vayne Akali

ChuShoeJan 22, 201811 votes

sure using vayne as an example is fine but at least with akali she's jumping into your range, rather than just spamming E from 8 miles away until she finally lands one.

Jinx HunterJan 22, 20185 votes

{quoted}

sure using vayne as an example is fine but at least with akali she's jumping into your range, rather than just spamming E from 8 miles away until she finally lands one.

Lux Xerath Zyra Nidalee Blitzcrank Orianna Velkoz

LEARN TO DODGE A SKILLSHOT

ChuShoeJan 22, 201811 votes

Please don't compare zoe's sleepy to any of these mid-long range mages. She has the base mana pool and the cdr+mana in her build to spam her E much more than any of these champions spam their skillshots, ESPECIALLY blitzcrank and Orianna.

Ariel the CruelJan 22, 20183 votes

Nid stacks mana and AP. Chucks spears just as often for about as much damage (Until late game thank's to Star's level scaling). Has mobility instead of a Zoning hard CC skill that doubles Q damage. Both are highly incentivized to use their nukes from max range.

This comparison seems somewhat tenable.

ChuShoeJan 22, 20183 votes

Aye but once again for nidalee to do the rest of her damage and not just be a Q spam, she has to leap in with the rest of her combo with melee range. Same deal with akali, not nearly as safe as zoe's portal hop.

Ariel the CruelJan 22, 20182 votes

But how often does Nid actually do that? I've only seen it happen on isolated targets when it was a [presumed] guaranteed kill.

Zoe kills people out-right if she lands the bubble, but can't run away. Nid is hard as F to kill, but normally take only 3/4 of their health bar per Q. But their overall play-style and cooldowns are otherwise comparable.

ChuShoeJan 22, 20181 votes

3/4 of a squishie's health bar, sure if it hits almost maximum range, but let's not forget that nidalee's spear is definitely one of the easier skillshots to dodge, as well as the fact that nidalee's spears don't gain bonus true damage, unlike the E+Q zoe's combo does.

Ariel the CruelJan 22, 20181 votes

Neither of them will deal much damage from close range. And I already noted Zoe's E+Q combo killing people out-right. Take away the CC, and Zoe's Q isn't that much harder to dodge. From my experience so far, the hit-bix is rather small; though the damage is an AoE (for some reason).

ChuShoeJan 23, 20182 votes

The problem isn't with CC. If she has CC in her kit, fine. Vel has it, lux has it, orianna has it. The problem is that none of them even come close in terms of safety when compared to post 6 zoe. It's her damage that she becomes capable of with 3 abilities once she hits level 6. Overall, besides her Q damage + true damage with E proc, she's not OP, her kit is just extremely annoying, and her E skillshot from fog doesn't feel fair, especially when compared to something like veigar's E or even Zac's launch.

Rey YanJan 24, 20182 votes

To be fair, one of Zoe's "counters", Lux, can do a lot of things that Zoe does. Q out of the fog of war and ult, and mid game, you should be easily able to delete a squishy. But Lux isn't very mobile. Her only defenses are summon spells (Flash, Exhaust, Barrier) and her W. If she can't kite you, she's dead.

Zoe? Chase her, she'll turn on you. Bring friends? Paddleboard poke. Wanna dodge a global ult? Use your short cd ult. Zoe is like a mobile Lux- a safer lux. Its just anti fun to deal with.

T4underboltJan 22, 201819 votes

Okay then. Let's make champion with 2000 range basic ability on barely any cooldowns and mana cost dealing 80/85/90/95/100% of your max hp as true damage based on skill level. This is fair because it's a skillshot and you can dodge it. So there is nothing wrong with that champ oneshoting you since the very early game. Hit your head with a wall and think for once instead of hiding main account with all games spammed with zoe and trying to look smart.

CppLJan 22, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Okay then. Let's make champion with 2000 range basic ability on barely any cooldowns and mana cost dealing 80/85/90/95/100% of your max hp as true damage based on skill level. This is fair because it's a skillshot and you can dodge it. So there is nothing wrong with that champ oneshoting you since the very early game. Hit your head with a wall and think for once instead of hiding main account with all games spammed with zoe and trying to look smart.

Thats prety much what zoe does right now.At lvl 4 she can chunk like 70% of your hp with 1 spell.Thats fucking absurd...

3ternalkarmaJan 22, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Okay then. Let's make champion with 2000 range basic ability on barely any cooldowns and mana cost dealing 80/85/90/95/100% of your max hp as true damage based on skill level. This is fair because it's a skillshot and you can dodge it. So there is nothing wrong with that champ oneshoting you since the very early game. Hit your head with a wall and think for once instead of hiding main account with all games spammed with zoe and trying to look smart.

first of all it has 800 range she HAS to be within 800 range of her Q or it despawns secondly the true damage is about maybe 30% of the damage the other 70% is magic as it caps with her E damage third its not a one shot if she uses 3 skills

{quoted}

So it's fine for a champ have same dmg with basic ability + ULT, as other champ with just basic ability, with a very low cd?

to be fair it is her only real damage skill aside from her E

T4underboltJan 22, 20184 votes

Doesn't matter what range she has. It is a oneshot if she does it in one ability rotation. There is no champ in game who can really oneshot outside of cho, fed syndra and I don't know. Let's not forget amount of utility and other stuff she gets on W. Half of her kit could be removed and she would still be broken. I'm really bored seeing 0/10 Zoe with 100 cs at 27 minutes nearly oneshoting my ADC. Very funny.

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 22, 20183 votes

It actually does matter?

You're spreading misinformation to make your point seem more valid then it is.

Zoe has issues, but you're just lying to try and seem smart.

T4underboltJan 23, 20182 votes

I'm not lying. That is what happened in the game. My mid lane dumbpstered Zoe to trash. She had that pitiful stats and managed to chunk our mf so hard she had to back as she had no lifesteal. If you don't believe not my problem. Though it's not a surprise you don't. Hard stuck bronze playing Zoe in normals and can't do anything as her. No wonder you think she has issues and isnt good.

DeadUnbornJan 22, 20182 votes

say, if Riot buffed Ezreal to the point were if one of his Qs hit you it would insta kill (regardless of how tanky or squishy you are at whichever point of the game, even level 1) would you be ok with it since it is a skillshot and you can dodge it?

Votable JesterJan 23, 20181 votes

Hmmm, it's almost like there's no ability such as you describe in the game, including Zoe's Q. In fact, if you bother to build any item with more than 25 mr, you'll likely be fine even if she lands her E and Q on you.

Moreso, if you build any of these item 3102 item 3156 item 3139 , you'll piss her the hell off.

DeadUnbornJan 23, 20181 votes

Congrats missing the point in such a splendid manner

Votable JesterJan 23, 20181 votes

My point is even Zoe Q isn't to that degree. There is significant counterbuild on top of counterplay. That's why your example does not work as it says %max health true damage basically which has no direct counter. Flat magic damage however has plenty of stuff available to deal with it.

DeadUnbornJan 23, 20182 votes

you are having a hard time understanding my point so I'll help you out.

The original comment I replied to said "learn to dodge skillshots"

My point was that even if you can dodge skillshots, there are degrees of what is fair to dodge and what isn´t

A good example would be a spamable fast skillshot that instakills you, like the one I proposed. Sure, you can dodge it -- that doesn't mean it would be fair still

banlunJan 21, 20186 votes

again, her E leaves a pool on the ground. okay. are you walking into it? if so then that's a personal problem, if not then don't walk there? obviously a good zoe will be able to zone you away from a certain path that you're talking with e or decide to hit oyu with it.

you can counter her with range ex. lux but you obviously don't know how to play against these things. you say she's anti-fun but consider other champions that are anti-fun.

Jinx HunterJan 22, 20185 votes

{quoted}

again, her E leaves a pool on the ground. okay. are you walking into it? if so then that's a personal problem, if not then don't walk there? obviously a good zoe will be able to zone you away from a certain path that you're talking with e or decide to hit oyu with it.

you can counter her with range ex. lux but you obviously don't know how to play against these things. you say she's anti-fun but consider other champions that are anti-fun.

Save it man, these plebs are going to whine no matter what. Thing is in the same span of time it takes Zoe to kill you. A Syndra would do it or just about any burst orientated mage; but as usually the mongoloids don't understand that they would have died any damn ways even if it wasn't Zoe. She is the new Yasuo, everyone is going to bitch until the next new CertaintlyT champ comes along.

They have a learn to play issue. They are the same kind of people that complain about lux Q and Ahri Charm or Zyra E.