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Garren and Pantheon need a buff.

Renovartio·3/7/2015, 5:23:11 AM·5 votes·1,135 views

Garen and Pantheon are labeled as having high attack damage yet it feels like they are weak as hell in that area. Garren is supposed to have a high defense but it feels pretty average while pantheon feels quite weak.

Both their abilities feel weak and i'm doing a ton more damage with characters like Karma when she has no items than i am with them with them with 2 or more damage items.

My personal recommendation:

Give them both a damage buff(especially Pantheon) and give them both a health buff(Garren more than pantheon).

PS: their R ability does not need a buff, every other ability might, but their R doesn't.

18 Comments

Ra1d3/7/2015, 5:29:31 AM1 votes

I can't tell if you're joking or what. I'm a main Garen and if you're only getting two ad items of course youre not doing a ton of damage. get 3 or 4 then you'll see damage spouting like a waterfall. And his health is descent considering his passive plus his natural sustain from his w. garen is actually very well balanced in his current state. he could use a rework in his q but other than that hes awesome.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1752195856/220096615 That's my last game with Garen. Mostly ad items and i was spouting 800 crits, but thats cus i didnt get a chance to use my IE.

BeatzBoyFTW3/7/2015, 5:36:36 AM1 votes

They are still strong. You're just not using them right.

Axrios3/7/2015, 5:37:36 AM1 votes

Garen might need a buff, but panth doesn't.

UnSeenDeath883/7/2015, 5:50:45 AM1 votes

Pantheon main, I also think he does plenty of damage, go AD rune page with scaling MR glyphs and armor seals, and you are a beast early game. Then for items anymore I almost always go Hydra that's +80 damage plus an AOE on basic attacks, means I can quickly clear and push a lane out, then my 2nd damage item if I'm laning depends on what i'm facing I'll go either Maw, LW, cleaver, BOTRK, or pretty much any other AD item short of BT or IE. If I'm facing an AP lane I'll drop Hydra to my 2nd item and get the Maw, if I'm facing a team with 3 tanks I'll start Cleaver and then go LW, it's not much total damage but I need the armor pen to cut through the armor. Occasionally I will buy a 3rd damage item but most of the time it's just 2 then boots (after I finish my first item) and 3 defense items, since panth starts falling off late game he needs some defense to stay in team fights, or he won't have time get all his abilities off before getting crushed especially if he wasn't able to ult into the fight.

For jungle he doesn't do nearly as much damage since you have to start machete, so I keep my laning masteries, I don't even use jungle masteries, if you do then you do almost no damage when you do gank early. I go chilling smite warrior, and hydra with mobi boots and the rest defense. I would also suggest taking some kills when you gank. When I play panth jung I try to spend as little time in the jungle as possible, I get my buffs and then gank, I clear raptors and wolves and gank, I back after a gank, oh buffs aren't up time to gank, dragon, gank. Abuse the fact that you are one of the strongest early game champs there is

Everything above seems to work for me as many of my panth games show, but I probably have 400 total games with him and over 100 ranked this season. So I think I pretty much understand everything about him, other than the days where I just can't hit somebody with his ult. You said he doesn't need any changes with his R, I think he needs an OMW ping, though I would probably still spam pings when I ult anyway to get the message across to my team not to back out.

Renovartio3/7/2015, 8:30:21 AM1 votes

OK, thanks for the tips, i'll give them both another try.

Matezoide3/7/2015, 8:32:24 AM1 votes

Garen's R needs a reasonable cooldown, instead of fucking 160 at level one.

Thats literally it. Just fix his retarded CD and he will be in a decent spot. Pantheon is fine.

AyRe CoNteMpT3/7/2015, 8:45:01 AM1 votes

i think garens ult should have more range as its really not a physical attack. thats all i would change about him. or maybe that if his ult doesnt kill, he gains vision on his target for 10 seconds. also reveals invisibility. other than that, garen is strong enough.

for pantheon i would love to upgrade his ultimate a bit so that he can adjust the spot he lands in slightly to prevent enemys from running away that easily. especially since every champ has mobility nowadays. i would make it so that you can move while ulting but very slowly (say 110 ms)

also i would give his W some love since right now, all it does is a short stun and a passive refresh. there are so many bettter stuns in the game or even all these 5 second knockups everyone has now. make it so that every Q you hit reduces the cooldown of W by 1 second and that while he jumps with his W, he is immune to all the bullshit CC just like vi. or at least he is immune to all cc comming from the front cuz he blocks it with his shield while jumping.

JusticePauldrons3/7/2015, 2:52:47 PM1 votes

Honestly the only thing Garen needs is a better gapcloser and a lower cooldown on his R. When you are going against a cc heavy team there is nothing worse than knowing that if you try to initiate with Q you won't get close. My personal recommendation is a slight leap on his Q, which I went into a bit deeper here. Garen makes a great damage dealer, but when you really need a tank he doesn't provide much aside from being a sponge. If his Q was a better initiator he would be a stronger pick without having to give him any real number changes.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/LiFEyiFO-simple-idea-for-garens-q

jferguson3/14/2015, 8:42:41 PM1 votes

garren is fine on attack if anything he is a brick with high def and attack why would you bluff up a brick anyways now on the other hand Pantheon could use a little more damage but in my opinion i think garren should be banned he takes no skill to play he is one of the few that takes no skill what so ever to play

KindThought3/14/2015, 8:52:09 PM1 votes

lol...neither of them need a buff at all, not even close. I've played over hundred games in ranked as Nasus and against countless pantheons and garens and they both need a nerf. First off pantheon blocks just about everything, I had one game where he literally blocked 95% of my q hits, even if I auto attacked him prior, he still was blocking everything, turret hits included...I know he's got that big shield but riot come on...that needs to be reasonable. I had a jungler come in on him and most his hits were blocked too, he probably thought I was exaggerating before that, nope. next up is garen, his silence is entirely op, why do I need to sit there and let this guy unload on me, and I can't do anything but run? not that I can get away since he can increase his running speed too, It's bad enough his ult does so much damage...both these guys are super tanky as well, they need some reasonable nerfs, on the blocks and the silence.

Quepha3/14/2015, 9:29:17 PM1 votes

because people think black cleaver is enough damage for garen to be useful and are surprised that spending about 1000 gold on damae stats doesn't leave their damage relevant for very long.

MarkedOfKane3/14/2015, 9:32:53 PM1 votes

Yes. Please buff the very popular pick that just lands in my lane and kills me.