Boards›Gameplay

The usless champion, ZOE

ClasXsy··6 votes·1,798 views

I believe I was the first one to get zoe m7, it was 2 days after release. I know she's op champion and you worked on her , like how I can't q r in the last sec making it obvious to the enemy that I'm coming which makes since. you removed some of the summonses that can drop from minions and it's also understandable. but reducing her damage? Zoe has only 2 attacks skills which are q and e. She was unfair due to her q r that you can't even see it coming but now you can. you managed to remove that CD on her e if it gets someone so you're leaving zoe with one skill Q ( and you lose added more CD on it) zoe now is pretty much useless champ with 2 skills that they don't even hurt. I just had a game trying what you did to her and from that game I won't ever play her again.
next time, just please release the champions in the way you're planning to make them! no need to nerf them little by little just to sell them out. I really loved zoe and understood that she needed some update but you really did nice work on her, now I have a champion that I wouldn't buy even for free.

18 Comments

vgamedude4 votes

She was never in a point on this game op in solo queue and statistics show that blatantly obvious, she may have needed some adjustments but if she did they were only warranted due to pro play, and she got nerfed every patch since her release

She is now useless.

ClasXsy4 votes

even before nerfing her, you just needed to dodge her sleep and she's easy to be killed, after nerfing I don't even wanna bother to dodge anything if we're on 1 v 1, she would just use everything to get me half hp max and she'll be open target. i swear lulu is better than her mid lane. and if you ask next time i see zoe against me i'd play nunu mid. yeah nunu is more useful than her

Slythion1 votes

She was pick/ban in master/challenger. I know that doesn't apply to the rest of solo queue, but she was a problem in some parts of soloq and it would be more accurate to say she wasn't a huge problem for most of soloq

vgamedude2 votes

Filter to plat+ ranks and even in korea she was always around 50 percent or lower, she wasn't a problem for any elo.

Slythion1 votes

Once again, she was pick/ban in master/challenger elo. I know she wasn't a priority pick in plat/diamond. I literally talk to master/challenger players daily to know this, and there's no decent stat site for specific elo stats (especially for high elo) soooooo

I really have no idea how you can tell me I'm wrong about master/challenger elo as a silver 1 (not rank shaming) unless you somehow have talked to master/challengers as well who have stated differently? Like, we both agree that Zoe in plat/diamond wasn't a balance issue, and those players make up 99% of the plat+ statistics. Your use of those statistics hold almost 0 relevance to the discussion.

l MrD l2 votes

She was never going to be balanced... Zoe is the perfect example of only played when good which means when shes good she does her job too well and when nerfed theres no reason to play her over any mages at all when they can offer the same but more... yeh W is good but its not reliable/consistent enough for an excuse

ClasXsy3 votes

my point, idk what they are thinking but she was strong but it was all skill shots, her e was her only way to kill stronger enemies but now, you gotta do it twice to kill anyone God knows what will happen again a tank.. her e now has too long cd which leave her with her useless q. they buffed her passive, yeah that how to make her balanced right?

PeachyPosterior1 votes

Her kit may be skill shots but it also has ridiculously low cool downs on everything. So having her damage high and all of her abilities up often makes her very spamy. They already adjusted her E so it doesn't get its cooldown removed for landing it, and enemies can now cleanse it. And her R does absolutely nothing but give her a position change on the map to better aid her Q. There is no reason for it to have a long cooldown. So they had to take some damage from somewhere.

She will be getting her waveclear back in 8.5, and some damage. Her W got buffed as well so it sounds like they dont want to load ALL of her damage into Q. Which is also quite fair. That way you really need to use a full combo to get the kill.

Riot it trying to make her fair to play but still fun to play. Zoe is a champ that is meant to be hard to master. Her difficulty is 3/3 in her champion profile. Meaning it's going to take a while to really learn how to best use her. The Zoe mains that have persisted despite the nerfs, though they feel bad, can still make something out of her.

ClasXsy1 votes

First, her w damage doesn’t matter at all no matter how much they buff it. Second, she has 2 skills that do damage, it doesn’t make any since at all giving her less CD on them, pretty much she’s more usefull AD now. Last point, Zoe was a champ good at picking one target and killing it, not pretty good at team fights and if you think about any champion comparing to her, they are more usefull in every way that her now. A lot of champion could one shot you and they’re usefull in teamfighta just like ori That could get a penta in seconds, zoe would never be able to do that. Zoe is 100% garbage champion now, and I really wouldn’t buy her nor even concider using her now. Hlaf of the champions could still one shots and be better in term of teamfighta, the only good thing about zoe was taken, why should anyone play her Anymore? Don’t tell me her mains could make something out of her, I tried and hated every second i played her. Can’t even get a single easy kill without help.

PeachyPosterior1 votes

{quoted}

First, her w damage doesn’t matter at all no matter how much they buff it. Second, she has 2 skills that do damage, it doesn’t make any since at all giving her less CD on them, pretty much she’s more usefull AD now. Last point, Zoe was a champ good at picking one target and killing it, not pretty good at team fights and if you think about any champion comparing to her, they are more usefull in every way that her now. A lot of champion could one shot you and they’re usefull in teamfighta just like ori That could get a penta in seconds, zoe would never be able to do that. Zoe is 100% garbage champion now, and I really wouldn’t buy her nor even concider using her now. Hlaf of the champions could still one shots and be better in term of teamfighta, the only good thing about zoe was taken, why should anyone play her Anymore? Don’t tell me her mains could make something out of her, I tried and hated every second i played her. Can’t even get a single easy kill without help.

.

I can’t even get a single easy kill without help.

Then you either don't know her very well, or you don't know your enemy very well. Of course she's no where near as good as she once was, but I can still have a game with more kills than deaths with her. And I'm just a regular player. She's not supposed to be an easy champ, so I don't know why you're whining so hard. but if you don't like her than don't play her. That will give us, the ones that actually want to play her, a better chance in champ select.

Slythion1 votes

Zoe can't be balanced and her very champion design dooms her. You can't create a high-damage ability-spammable hyper-ranged champion that defies several laws of league and is meant to 1-shot...it's just an awful champion design. Her sleep and W, although also problematic, are not why she's a terrible champion design. Either she can do what she was designed to do and it's not fun or fair for the enemy, or she can't and then she's just trash.

If there's a middle ground, it's extremely small to the point that if it's ever reached, a slight meta change will push you out.

ClasXsy1 votes

Every champion has a role to play, zoe is or better saying was good at killing one target. She’s not much usefull in team fights. If you think she’s not fair or something you gotta learn how to dodge which they made it easier to read. Since she was released, i never had problem lanning against her since if she missed her sleep she’s open target. Her damge was the only good thing about her if you knew how to land them, now it’s not even usefull landing anything. One more point, she takes time to kill due to her q that needs time to be released.

Slythion1 votes

Alright, I'm gonna pull rank her but not to rank shame you, but to argue an elo-differentiation.

From some light stalking I see you're a silver player (again, nothing wrong with that). The thing about Zoe at silver elo is that she really wasn't a problem except her arguably cancerous gameplay. I've seen players comparing playing against her as a bullet hell game, that's stressful and non-interactive...and honestly I can see where they're coming from. "Just dodge everything" is not a fair counterargument when everything is <5 second cd and she can sling them from such a long and safe distance.

Most champions are gated by cc/utility, range, cooldowns, damage, and/or mobility.

Take Xerath: He's gated by unreliable cc with depreciating value + a long cd, as well as essentially negative mobility to excel at range, damage, and aoe.

Taliyah: Trades damage for utility/cc and mobilty

Syndra: Excells at single-target damage but lacks any mobility and is often gated by range

Zoe: Excells at damage, lacks any meaningful cooldowns, has very reliable cc that she can throw at anyone who manages to her, and her entire kit is designed to allow you to hit things from as far as you possibly can. The only thing she really doesn't have a consistent thing for or excells at would be mobility, but even then they gave her a low-cd blink that granted, has limitations, but she can also pick up flashes for extra mobility as well.

Zoe is an exceptionally safe champion that was abused in higher elos. Seriously, ask any master/challenger player and theyll tell you she was pick/ban from release. This is why rank matters, because no one uses Zoe correctly in silver.

The reason she can't be put in a balanced state is because what can they nerf? Spammable spells mean nothing if they tickle, high damage will just keep her just as toxic but not as efficient as other champions. Her range? thats a fundamental part of her identity. Her cc? Ya, that would be a good thing to target, except she'd still provide that cancerous bullet-hell gameplay people hate.

She's an awfully designed champion with a good theme which feels really bad because she just cant be fixed.

ClasXsy1 votes

I wasn't using rank card or anything, since her release I managed to rank to gold in no time. xerath, syndra, Taliyah they have at least 3 abilities so you can't really compare her to any other champion.
now back to zoe. Zoe has great damage, she's bad in term of team fight, she would most likely try to pick a kill alone behind walls which would make her an easy target, if she was with the team you'd be able to see her q coming and any tank could simply block it (she can't use her Q R like when released so you can easily see her coming) . not saying she doesn't need nerf, but if you cancel the one shot idea she would be useless and that's the only good thing about her. if they're going to keep her on that way, I suggest a new rework on her. I'm pretty sure I know every way to use zoe in less than a month I almost had 300 games on her in ranked with almost 70% win rate (dropped because someone was playing in my acc). and btw I've asked higher elo about zoe a lot, we agreed she needs a little nerf but she's fair. if you're talking about champion with only 2 attack abilities, it has to be enough to kill champions. About any nerfing, they should think about something like make her visible when ever she uses her q so you can dodge easier, but nerfing her damage? it doesn't make any since. even if you think it's unfair, it's better to be a little unfair than having a usless champion.

Slythion1 votes

I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again so I'm just gonna start using quotes:

if you cancel the one shot idea she would be useless and that's the only good thing about her.

I talked about this and explained how it's an awful champion design. Either she's good at what she does and is an absolute cancer champion, or she isn't and she's absolutely useless.

btw I've asked higher elo about zoe a lot, we agreed she needs a little nerf but she's fair.

there's a difference between being fair and being fun. Zoe simply isn't fun, please refer to my "bullet hell" comparison and understand that asking someone to just continuously dodge low-cd abilities (especially if one of them leaves a zone you have to avoid afterwards) is not fun in the slightest. Just another poor design aspect in her kit.

As for higher elo, she was pick/ban in master/challenger for an insanely long time. I talk to master/challengers pretty regularly as a caster for my university and someone who talks to our uni team's coach + players which is why I know this.

We've already covered how there's no real middle ground so either she's good and forced to be pick/ban or she can't do what she's designed to do and she's useless. Again, blame her design.

About any nerfing, they should think about something like make her visible when ever she uses her q so you can dodge easier, but nerfing her damage?

It would still feel incredibly bad to have to be dodging her "visible" long-range low-cd burst skill-shot all the time. It's not fun. She'd still have that shit champ design. She should've never been designed around such a cheesy niche 1-trick mechanic and they should've made her around her interesting sleep spell.

Unfortunately we won't be getting that for a few years until she becomes a candidate for a rework, so either her damage needs to be nerfed or she's forced to dominate as the 1-shotting annoying child that she is. That leads us to our final point ->

it doesn't make any since. even if you think it's unfair, it's better to be a little unfair than having a usless champion.

I don't really think you believe that, I think you're saying that to defend Zoe. How can you possibly argue that it's better to leave an unfair champion as they are, corrupting the game for at minimum 5 players in every game, for the sake of pampering the single player? Do you really think it's better to leave a shit champion design roaming around rather than nerfing them to the ground until they can be fixed? Really?

Azir Kalista Yorick Aatrox Evelynn Warwick XinZhao would love to have a word with you.

ReySolomon1 votes

I'm cool with q buffs but please do not lower the E CD nor the dmg, not sure why you say she's weak ppl still make zoe look really strong but hey like I said i'm ok with q buffs just do not bring her E back up.

ClasXsy1 votes

her E cd is not big problem, but her Q and her ap ratio is just too much.

ReySolomon1 votes

{quoted}

her E cd is not big problem, but her Q and her ap ratio is just too much.

Uh yes her E cd was the issue it was always down every 2 seconds when she came out and after the first nerf her e was still 4 seconds (was still short) lol people would dodge her first E but 4 seconds later she E's again and lands then oneshots, it's her E dude.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes