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Assassins need to be able to assassinate again

Seath the scale··4 votes·617 views

When the assassins update when live I was super excited to try out the new lb. However, I noticed that these updates made lb do less burst and more drawn out damage, this is a significant downgrade from their previous self imho. Even though it might feel bad to be insta killed by a lb there was always counter play, tanks could hard cc them, supports could sheild, or you could just play less squishy champions. By making assassins less bursty it gives the adc (or any squishy champions) the opportunity to work away from their own team bc they don't need to fear assassins jumping on them (as much) anymore. That being said, I don't dislike the whole update, I agree that lb wasn't living up to her title of the deciever and some of the changes were great improvements to the characters, but please don't remove an assassins ability to get their job done :)

(I know the update happened a while ago but this has been bugging me for a bit)

43 Comments

Evil Yasuo3 votes

Yeah I agree. I have a assassin re-rework on my page that i'm pretty proud of and it's to give the assassin identity back.

Killer30001893 votes

They still do..... or are you talking about being able to literally one shot with an ability

Seath the scale2 votes

Their damage is much more drawn out than before now, to the point that I wonder why not take a super bursty champ like lux instead of lb. Lux is much safer and has more aoe abilities, and she can output all of her damage at once from range. While lb has to stay in close range to do her damage and juke around in order to get the full damage from her passive and tether. Meaning that they can no longer deal their full damage so fast.

Also no assassins in the game has ever been able to kill with one ability it has always been combos.

Ralanr2 votes

But the combos were often so fast that one just didn't get time to react.

Seath the scale2 votes

what I'm saying is that there is counter play, and if you were really worried about assassins you could build tanky stats. Besides an assassins should be able to assassinate the highest priority Target. Not to mention that you did have some time to react, as a support as soon as you see Zed's shadows flying towards your adc you had the time to sheild/reaction cc.

Ralanr1 votes

See Zed wasn't heavily reworked because he did provide time to react.

Talon blink did not. Katarina benefited from the rework because she was so easy to shut down. Leblanc has a history that honestly I'm not going into because she's a touchy subject to a lot of people. Rengar however I will go into because I have my own issues with the champion's design.

Rengar gets too much for snowballing compared to other champions. Why? Extra AD for kills with his bonetooth necklace on top of bounty hunter. Before they required him to kill individual targets to get bonetooth stacks, he could just kill the same underfed champion over, and over, and over, and over to gain benefits long past the point where the champion stopped providing feasible gold.

That's rather toxic imo, and I can't say his bonetooth necklace is healthy because despite requiring unique targets it still provides him more snowballing power than any other champion and better encourages bruiser builds (along with his dumb W) because rengar isn't sacrificing much AD.

Honestly of the assassins that got fucked over in the rework, the ones that most deserve a remake are:

  1. Akali: Because let's be honest, her entire point and click snowball clusterfuck of a kit isn't healthy when strong.
  2. Shaco: Who honestly has an interesting design, Riot just doesn't seem to want it to work.
  3. Rengar: Honestly think they need to scrap the bonetooth concept. I get it, he's a trophy hunter. Yorick has a freaking vial of holy water that can save lives but he doesn't use it in game. Rengar doesn't need to have gameplay around trophy hunting. And if he does, it should be for killing strong targets. Dude should get rewarded for killing fed enemy champions because that's worthy prey.
  4. Leblanc: Because Riot needs to decide how they want her to work. AP assassin with deception? Or jumpy burst mage with waveclear. Cause so far, Shaco is a better deceiver than Leblanc.
Seath the scale2 votes

Your right about talon and Kat the reworks that they received actually helped them but what riot did to lb has almost put her in the same boat as Asir and Ryze. Making her so skill based that she is only really an assassins in the higher ranks and in lower elo she is just a mobile distraction. I personally think that they should take rengar out of the assassins category and give him a new kit as a fighter. Akali is a fairly balanced champ with a lot of skill mixed in (shroud blinking skill shots ect) and she still can one shot if you snowball so I don't have any gripes about her. Shaco is a bit of a mess right now so I won't comment on him. TL:DR the real reason this has been bothering me is bc riot f*ked lb (one of my fav champs).

Ralanr1 votes

Sorry you feel that way about LB. Honestly I don't like her as a champion and I'm happy she's not really that good right now. But that's because to me, she's worse than Yasuo when it comes to snowballing off of my teammates.

Pierce The Veal2 votes

{quoted}

But the combos were often so fast that one just didn't get time to react.

Sounds a little bit like mages and ADC's today huh?

Ralanr1 votes

Yeah. Dumb right?

Almost like we shouldn't be encouraging that. But hey, at least Syndra doesn't just pop out of nowhere to kill me.

Pierce The Veal2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. Dumb right?

Almost like we shouldn't be encouraging that. But hey, at least Syndra doesn't just pop out of nowhere to kill me.

Instead she stuns you from across the lane and nukes you from far away so you have no chance of retaliating whatsoever (at least if you were fast you coild fight back against stealth).

Ralanr2 votes

At least you can see it coming.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

At least you can see it coming.

As if you couldn't see it coming after initial changes season 2?

And yet we have Twitch who can assassinate an entire team without anybody seeing it coming.

Ralanr1 votes

Yeah, Twitch needs something to stop that.

Killer30001891 votes

oh sorry i ment a combo that's faster than you can blink

Seath the scale1 votes

Lux's q-e-r-e combo takes about 2 seconds. If fast, high damage combos were the problem then why don't you hear about how broken lux is. Abilitys in overwatch have the same issues as assassins in lol. Hanzo's scatter arrow feels terrible to play against, but Hanzo really needs that consistent lethality in order to stay relevant. In order to do their jobs they need those fast combos. And the combos didn't even work fast on you if you built a little mr/armor.

Killer30001892 votes

You're really bringing overwatch into this xDDDD

Seath the scale2 votes

What's wrong with using ow as an analogy for lol?

Killer30001892 votes

It's a completely different game, also scatter shot is 1 ability that breaks into 6 different arrows

Seath the scale2 votes

So bc it is a different game, it's ideas can't help riot balance?

Also why did you give me a discription of scatter arrow?

Killer30001891 votes

Because they each do separate damage, it's not like you're guaranteed a kill for using it.

Seath the scale1 votes

Yes but landing a scatter arrow is much easier than landing a regular arrow.

(BTW could we get back on topic?)

Killer30001891 votes

and that was xD

Seath the scale1 votes

No it wasn't lol

Killer30001891 votes

oh lol, so you want assassins to be able to fast combo and delete people without having time to react?

Seath the scale1 votes

They do have time to react and their burst won't be able to delete squishy champions who build some Mr/armor (or a zonyas/ga)

Killer30001891 votes

How do they have time to react when a full combo is blown on them half a second

Seath the scale1 votes

Well even if they don't have any time to react, isn't that the whole point of an assassin? To get in and out with or without a kill ( the latter happens when they stack Mr/armor or the assassins can't get through the frontline).

Seath the scale1 votes

Well it's midnight where I am an I have to get up early so good night Ty for honest conversation about this topic :)

Killer30001891 votes

Well you know how riot is and there "we don't want champs to be fun to play and not fun to play against" or something along those lines

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Seath the scale,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qIq1rAvW,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-28T15:25:32.431+0000)

Lux's q-e-r-e combo takes about 2 seconds if fast, high damage combos were the problem then why don't you hear about how broken lux is. Abilitys in overwatch have the same issues as assassins in lol. Hanzo's scatter arrow feels terrible to play against, but Hanzo really needs that consistent lethality in order to stay relevant. In order to do their jobs they need those fast combos. And the combos didn't even work fast on you if you built a little mr/armor.

I can pull off the whole combo (minus travel time) in like 0.5-1 seconds.

Seath the scale1 votes

But the ult takes about a second to channel :0

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Seath the scale,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qIq1rAvW,comment-id=000300000001000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-28T16:07:48.306+0000)

But the ult takes about a second to channel :0

There are ways around it. Like you can flash during your ult.

Beas7ie2 votes

Thing is for years, Rito has hated allowing assassins actually being able to do their jobs.

Lauchmelder2 votes

Assassinate yes, but not like the old "Hey, I'm kinda fed, let me delete you in 0.1 seconds while you can do absolutely nothing about it."

Evil Yasuo2 votes

They never did that though, you ALWAYS had to snowball and had huge risk since assassins used to fall off so hard.

Ralanr1 votes

Assassins still can, not to the speed they used to but that speed was considered a problem (which is why it was reduced).

Seath the scale2 votes

It was only considered a problem by people who weren't respecting an assassins damage/presence.

9Wly9oMl021 votes

Here's the problem. Nobody wants to be killed before they even see the enemy champ. That's no fun. The problem with increasing assassins' assassination time is that other champs still assassinate just as fast. Get a fed bruiser. You're getting nuked. Vayne literally kills people with 3 AAs (since she is supposed to be a tank killer more than a squishy, wut).

League of damage. Tanks even deal lots of damage for some reason.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

Assassins have been gutted but boards is an anti assassin circlejerk like no other. There is no class as hated as assassins here.

Ralanr2 votes

ADCs?

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

ADCs?

People only started jumping on ADC's after the started doing assassin's jobs as well.

But trust me, I've tried starting threads against adcs from the position of an assassin. It doesn't go well. People just hate assassins more than ADC's.

Leaf on Bush2 votes

...except all other classes.

People declare the tank meta, assassin meta, adc meta, whatever meta at the same time, I don't care anymore.

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